Halifax Stadium Discussion - Page 118

wespidel · #**2341** Posted **Feb 12, 2011, 3:11 AM**

I agree with Fenwick, I`m a CFL fan first and support all CFL teams but like Fenwick I have my favour team or teams and I agree it doesn`t have to be your home province team or city!

fenwick16 · #**2342** Posted **Feb 12, 2011, 3:56 AM**

I was mainly criticizing hfx_chris for his criticism of people (including me) who show too much emotion about a Halifax Stadium. However, I prefer your stance wespidel - you show strong emotion for both the CFL overall and a CFL team in Halifax.

PS: For example: This is the kind of dedication and emotion that I admire - halifaxboyns posted about 10 comments on this story in support of a stadium - http://thechronicleherald.ca/Metro/1226784.html .

fenwick16 · #**2343** Posted **Feb 12, 2011, 1:40 PM**

The story below was in the Chronicle Herald. However, it came from MP Lund who I doubt has the final word on funding. In fact he stated in the article that any funding would likely come from Infrastructure Canada and not his department. Since MP Peter MacKay supports a stadium, I still hope that there will be federal funding available for a stadium in Halifax.

(source: http://thechronicleherald.ca/Metro/9019808.html)

Quote:

Feds won’t kick in for soccer stadium
Lunn rules out money for infrastructure related to Women’s World Cup bid
By MICHAEL LIGHTSTONE City Hall Reporter
Sat, Feb 12 - 7:35 AM

Ottawa won’t be contributing public money to any sports infrastructure hooked to an international soccer tournament Halifax is bidding to be part of, a federal cabinet minister said Friday.
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Lunn, who is in Halifax for an annual conference with his provincial counterparts and for the opening of the Canada Winter Games, said a stadium funding proposal not connected to the soccer tournament in 2015 wouldn’t necessarily cross the desk of officials in his department.

“Typically it would go through probably" Infrastructure Canada, he told The Chronicle Herald after the conference.
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q12 · #**2344** Posted **Feb 12, 2011, 2:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenwick16

The story below was in the Chronicle Herald. However, it came from MP Lund who I doubt has the final word on funding. In fact he stated in the article that any funding would likely come from Infrastructure Canada and not his department. Since MP Peter MacKay supports a stadium, I still hope that there will be federal funding available for a stadium in Halifax.

(source: http://thechronicleherald.ca/Metro/9019808.html)

I read that too thinking the same thing. There seems to be interest in a stadium from Peter Mackay and with Quebec and others looking for way more federal money it should be hard to say no to Halifax. This is bad news though for Moncton trying to get federal money for stadium upgrades specifically tied to the 2015 womens world cup.

The amount of money Halifax will be looking for will depend of course on the cost of the stadium. If the stadium were to cost $40 million, It could be split 10m Feds, 10m Province, 10m City, 10m private (naming rights). Or $60 million would only be maybe 16-17m for each level of government and 10 m for the naming rights.

It all really doesn't add up to that much money when you it compare it to other projects. I honestly find it hard to believe that some people would think that a stadium should be put on the back burner when its been there already for years and we have the worst stadium infrastructure in the country.

The other issue here is the CFL is knocking on our doors right now. Who's to say they lose interest in the east coast in a few years and focus on Quebec city or London for expansion.

brettinhalifax · #**2345** Posted **Feb 12, 2011, 4:20 PM**

account deleted

c-way-dude · #**2346** Posted **Feb 12, 2011, 5:45 PM**

With what's happening in Zimbabwe under Robert Mugabe (violence, hyper-inflation, etc.), Canada doesn't have much to worry about with regards to winning the hosting rights for this tournament. Zimbabwe isn't really any more capable of presently hosting this tournament than Haiti would be.
The history of federal money for sports in this country is tied to hosting international events. There is absolutely no good reason for that to change for this event. IMO, the only way Halifax would not get some federal support is if Moncton gets chosen instead. Even in that scenario, the support Moncton would get would possibly bring their stadium up to CFL standards, bringing the dream of having a CFL team in the maritimes much closer.

wespidel · #**2347** Posted **Feb 13, 2011, 2:27 PM**

Feds gave 30 million to BMO field, which was by far the biggest contribution and it was for the FIFA Mens U-20 World Cup. Something to take note of here, there will be a Women`s U-20 FIFA Worlds Cup as well which is part of the bid for 2014 not just the the FIFA Women`s World Cup in 2015, so I believe the gentlemen is right Halifax should even receive more support from Feds. I believe Halifax will receive stadium infrastructure money from the Feds especially where they were prepared to give Halifax hundreds of millions for the CMG which they didn`t have to, like the gentlemen mentioned as well. It`s going to be pretty hard and embassarring for the Feds with Peter Mackay supporting the stadium, who does have a lot of pull and with Braley and Larry Smith on the Senate with CFL interests, not for the Feds to support Halifax`s stadium.
How can the Feds give 30 to BMO field for the FIFA U2 Men`s World Cup of Soccer and than all the sudden not support Halifax`s host bid, if Canada wins the FIFA bid. No way this will not happen, Halifax will get support from the Feds and I believe this has already been established through Peter MacKay!
One other interested point that is a possibility, is that all seven cities will host. Seven host hosts that put in teir final bid on the Feb.11/2011 deadline, are, Van. who wants to host the semi and final games, Victoria who has a CWG stadium, Winnipeg, who is building a brand new 200 million dollar stadium which will be ready in 2012, Ottawa who will be building a new 145 million dollar stadium ready in 2013, Montreal who has a facility, Moncton who has as a small stadium that can quality with a make shift and Halifax without a stadium. Edmomton I believed backed out which is strange! It`s hard to take out one, so yes Moncton would be looking for money to upgrade their stadium. But the more logical way to go would to stick to 6 six and eliminate Moncton because they were already supported by the Feds, to allow Halifax the largest city in the Atalntic Region to be showcased with all the other major cities which Moncton is not. Moncton are only there in fear of Halifax getting a stadium and only want to host to get money to expand their stadium which I don`t believe will happen but will happen with a new stadium for Halifax. That way there will be a brand new legacy stadium left behind and all the money will go to Halifax and not any other cities who will already have their stadium in place. Moncton in my opinion doesn`t fit into mix. Van. to HFX. coast to coast does! Also another factor is that Mayor Kelly is smart including the universities because I believe that will even more secure funding from Peter Mackay would his in tight with Mayor Kelly who is also a conservative. The Feds I believe must support Halifax and Dexter needs to support a stadium in a big way to give back the taxpayers money he took in HST and gas tax increases he said he wouldn`t increase. Give it back Premier Dexter and support the stadium in a big way, you owe us!

c-way-dude · #**2348** Posted **Feb 13, 2011, 2:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by wespidel

Feds gave 30 million to BMO field, which was by far the biggest contribution and it was for the FIFA Mens U-20 World Cup. Something to take note of here, there will be a Women`s U-20 FIFA Worlds Cup as well which is part of the bid for 2014 not just the the FIFA Women`s World Cup in 2015, so I believe the gentlemen is right Halifax should even receive more support from Feds. I believe Halifax will receive stadium infrastructure money from the Feds especially where they were prepared to give Halifax hundreds of millions for the CMG which they didn`t have to, like the gentlemen mentioned as well. It`s going to be pretty hard and embassarring for the Feds with Peter Mackay supporting the stadium, who does have a lot of pull and with Braley and Larry Smith on the Senate with CFL interests, not for the Feds to support Halifax`s stadium.
How can the Feds give 30 to BMO field for the FIFA U2 Men`s World Cup of Soccer and than all the sudden not support Halifax`s host bid, if Canada wins the FIFA bid. No way this will not happen, Halifax will get support from the Feds and I believe this has already been established through Peter MacKay!
One other interested point that is a possibility, is that all seven cities will host. Seven host hosts that put in teir final bid on the Feb.11/2011 deadline, are, Van. who wants to host the semi and final games, Victoria who has a CWG stadium, Winnipeg, who is building a brand new 200 million dollar stadium which will be ready in 2012, Ottawa who will be building a new 145 million dollar stadium ready in 2013, Montreal who has a facility, Moncton who has as a small stadium that can quality with a make shift and Halifax without a stadium. Edmomton I believed backed out which is strange! It`s hard to take out one, so yes Moncton would be looking for money to upgrade their stadium. But the more logical way to go would to stick to 6 six and eliminate Moncton because they were already supported by the Feds, to allow Halifax the largest city in the Atalntic Region to be showcased with all the other major cities which Moncton is not. Moncton are only there in fear of Halifax getting a stadium and only want to host to get money to expand their stadium which I don`t believe will happen but will happen with a new stadium for Halifax. That way there will be a brand new legacy stadium left behind and all the money will go to Halifax and not any other cities who will already have their stadium in place. Moncton in my opinion doesn`t fit into mix. Van. to HFX. coast to coast does! Also another factor is that Mayor Kelly is smart including the universities because I believe that will even more secure funding from Peter Mackay would his in tight with Mayor Kelly who is also a conservative. The Feds I believe must support Halifax and Dexter needs to support a stadium in a big way to give back the taxpayers money he took in HST and gas tax increases he said he wouldn`t increase. Give it back Premier Dexter and support the stadium in a big way, you owe us!

I agree with what you are saying, but there are eight cities, not seven cities vying to be host cities. Victoria, Vancouver, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Ottawa, Montreal, Moncton, Halifax

Keith P. · #**2349** Posted **Feb 13, 2011, 2:35 PM**

With Megan Leslie as the MP for the federal riding of Halifax, good luck getting any federal funding for this - or anything else.

q12 · #**2350** Posted **Feb 13, 2011, 3:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith P.

With Megan Leslie as the MP for the federal riding of Halifax, good luck getting any federal funding for this - or anything else.

Well it's a good thing Dartmouth Crossing or Shannon Park are not in her riding than isn't it? Got to love that Nova Scotian optimism! I guess we should all join the C.A.V.E. dwellers and give up.

fenwick16 · #**2351** Posted **Feb 13, 2011, 3:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith P.

With Megan Leslie as the MP for the federal riding of Halifax, good luck getting any federal funding for this - or anything else.

I am somewhat concerned about the government funding. I have a feeling that government funding isn't going to be in the order of $100 million dollars. I think in order to get funding from the 3 levels of government, people will have to show their support with individual contributions such as was the case with the Farmers Market (except it will have to be even more).

If individual contributions amount to $15 million dollars then it would encourage equal funding from the 3 levels of government which would add $45 million dollars for a total of $60 million dollars. If a corporate sponsor could be found to throw in another $15 million then that would be $75 million dollars which would build a significant "no frills" stadium. When I think of "no frills" I mean that it probably won't have escalators and totally enclosed concourses (just some areas containing washrooms and concessions might be enclosed and heated). However, it would still be a significant structure seating about 25,000 with room for expansion.

One way to encourage individual and corporate contributions is to first start with a stadium design and location. This is what the first two phases of the HRM stadium study should produce. If it is a design that will attract people's attention then funding drives will be easier. However, I don't think that raising the money is going to be easy, so if we think that large amounts of government funding will be available then I am afraid that a stadium will not be built (this is just my opinion).

In my opinion, Mayor Kelly and the HRM Council are taking the right approach - they have 1) initiated the studies to find a location and design 2) are approaching private investors and 3) they have started contacting representatives from the other 2 levels of government. I think that step 4 should be to set up a building fund that individuals can contribute to. Step 4 should be done as soon as a preliminary design is chosen (the design should be appealing if such a building fund is to succeed).

I don't think anyone should get discouraged at this point, if building a stadium were a simple process then it would have been built many years ago. We should instead be thinking of economical designs that look great and will inspire people to contribute. After a design has been selected we should be thinking of ways to encourage people to donate to a building fund.

MonctonRad · #**2352** Posted **Feb 13, 2011, 3:35 PM**

Wes, will you please stop with the run-on sentences! You're giving me a headache.....

fenwick16 · #**2353** Posted **Feb 13, 2011, 3:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Wes, will you please stop with the run-on sentences! You're giving me a headache.....

Are you sure that wasn't me? This is a good example from my last post - However, I don't think that raising the money is going to be easy, so if we think that large amounts of government funding will be available then I am afraid that a stadium will not be built (this is just my opinion).

PS: I think that the problem is that some of us think faster than we can type. In my case, neither process is very fast.

MonctonRad · #**2354** Posted **Feb 13, 2011, 4:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Are you sure that wasn't me? This is a good example from my last post - However, I don't think that raising the money is going to be easy, so if we think that large amounts of government funding will be available then I am afraid that a stadium will not be built (this is just my opinion).

PS: I think that the problem is that some of us think faster than we can type. In my case, neither process is very fast.

Sorry Fenwick, I missed your run-on...

With Wes, you can almost see his mind in overdrive when he types. It would be nice if he would just slow down and try to compose his thoughts some. It would make for more relaxed reading.

BTW, although the debate over the CFL in the Maritimes can sometimes get quite heated, I hope that in the end, no matter what happens, that all Maritimers will get on board and support the new team(s).

I have never said that I don't want a team in Halifax. I just want a team in Moncton. I occasionally get aggravated with Halifax forumers enumerating the reasons why Moncton shouldn't get a team or talking about how inadequate the Moncton stadium is. I find this annoying and occasionally I will lose my temper.

I am of the personal belief that the CFL should expand to survive and should aspire to be a league of about 16 teams. In this sort of a scenario, there could be teams in both Moncton and Halifax.

This would be good for the whole region.

Empire · #**2355** Posted **Feb 13, 2011, 5:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Sorry Fenwick,
I have never said that I don't want a team in Halifax. I just want a team in Moncton. I occasionally get aggravated with Halifax forumers enumerating the reasons why Moncton shouldn't get a team or talking about how inadequate the Moncton stadium is. I find this annoying and occasionally I will lose my temper.

I am of the personal belief that the CFL should expand to survive and should aspire to be a league of about 16 teams. In this sort of a scenario, there could be teams in both Moncton and Halifax.

This would be good for the whole region.

Moncton has waged a bit of a mini war on Halifax. Halifax was asleep at the switch when Moncton landed their first CFL game and that is fair ball. Snapping up the Uteck bowl is now playing hardball. The CFL games and Uteck bowl in Moncton are on thin ice because the business case involves support from Halifax. Don't look for a lot of sympathy from Halifax forumers regarding Moncton's thrown together stadium or plight to use the Uteck Bowl as support for a growing football community. If Halifax lands a CFL team it might be very hard to pull together a business case for another team in Moncton.

MonctonRad · #**2356** Posted **Feb 13, 2011, 5:55 PM**

I blame the CIS for the Uteck Bowl debacle.

I don't think Moncton city council actively lobbied for the game. I think the CIS wanted to embarrass Halifax and prod it into action to do something about the stadium situation at Saint Mary's University. I believe the CIS approached the city of Moncton and offered them the game.

Personally, I think it was a poor strategic decision on the part of Moncton to fall for this. The city should have said no. I think it was this more than anything else which lit the bomb under Mayor Kelly's keester.

The Uteck Bowl belongs in Halifax.

MonctonRad · #**2357** Posted **Feb 13, 2011, 6:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Empire

If Halifax lands a CFL team it might be very hard to pull together a business case for another team in Moncton.

As for business cases, I don't think a business case for a Halifax franchise should include NB or PEI (or even CB for that matter) in the equation. Similarly, a business case for a Moncton franchise should not include support from any points lying east (or south) of Truro.

They are two entirely separate things.......

fenwick16 · #**2358** Posted **Feb 13, 2011, 6:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

As for business cases, I don't think a business case for a Halifax franchise should include NB or PEI (or even CB for that matter) in the equation. Similarly, a business case for a Moncton franchise should not include support from any points lying east (or south) of Truro.

They are two entirely separate things.......

I lived just outside of Sydney, Nova Scotia many years ago (when I was in high school) and even at that time most Cape Bretoners considered themselves to be Nova Scotians. Although they might complain about Halifax getting too much from time to time, I am sure they would cheer for a Nova Scotia team and even travel to Halifax to see games (although it is a long trek).

In any case, I have a feeling that most Haligonians expect Monctonians to travel to Halifax to see games since it is closer than Cape Breton.

I hope that we will get some HRM stadium renderings soon so that we will all have more to discuss on this thread.

MonctonRad · #**2359** Posted **Feb 13, 2011, 6:36 PM**

Yes, Monctonians would travel to Halifax for the occasional game (and vise versa I hope

), but if you get much beyond Moncton, that pretty much eliminates day-tripping.

The catchment areas for Moncton and Halifax are pretty dissimilar.

David1gray · #**2360** Posted **Feb 13, 2011, 8:08 PM**

i made up a map for moncton and halifax catch areas within 3 hours using google maps. some of this is most likely off since i used get direction times. anyways, you be the judge.

hopefully this works

map: http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=U...15418133511407.00049c2ea7a29b499d607&z=6