Halifax Stadium Discussion

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I believe Councillor Fisher's remarks were in a lighthearted manner. I have to agree, we tend to think that Councillors should know everything and be blamed for everything, which isn't really the case.

Sadly, I don't think the Fisher comments are in any way lighthearted. The reason HRM council is a target for criticism and gets "blamed for everything" is not that they are expected to be experts in everything. It is that they are expected to set a responsible direction for the city, yet are signing us up for every bad idea and harebrained scheme staff or interest groups put in front of them, after lots of grandstanding and posturing that amounts to exactly zero.

Once again this year the big bad budget bugbear was beaten back by the miraculous rise in property assessments. So they can continue to spend in the most profligate ways, willy-nilly like drunken sailors, without any sort of vision or plan. Random describes them well. Want to go 80% over budget on an underpass project with no consequences? No problem! Want to let staff to sell you on the harebrained idea of clear garbage bags? No problem! Want to OK a bus terminal for $12 million? No problem! We don't need to cut spending! We can just tap into the overburdened, underserviced taxpayer one more time!

Nobody expects you to be experts on everything. But they expect leadership, they expect fiscal responsibility and respect for the taxpayer, and they expect some sense of direction. Taxpayers are getting none of that. All they are getting is hosed.

[q12]

Originally Posted by Welkin

Wow they can build that for $32 million? What in the world are we doing wrong? I mean Hamilton's renovation is $154 million. Is there something I am missing in this stadium? I always thought you could build a decent new stadium for less than $80 million (Akron's InfoCision stadium and Cardiff City Stadium come to mind) and this shows it. Why is Hamilton's so expensive? I know they are practically rebuilding the entire stadium, but it still seems very high.

Yeah I'm not sure but definitely seems doable to build a nice looking stadium in the 40m-70m range.

Here are more renderings I found of that stadium.

First Stage



Final Stage

[Empire]

Originally Posted by q12

Ok how about this in Shannon Park? (Not to scale but you get the point.)

I like this site for a number of reasons.

- It would be great to see a stadium from the harbour...sailing harbour tours etc.
- The PR appeal would be huge with 50,000 cars a day looking down on it from the MacKay
- Access points are central...Harbour, water taxi, ferrys-Bridge, HWY. 111, bus shuttles from all the regular concert hubs, maybe even train.....

[hfx_chris]

Well at this point it has the momentum that it should be able to carry itself forward, with the occasional push from us

I'm just glad to hear the mayor talking about a permanent stadium. I know he was tossing around (or maybe the papers were tossing around) the idea of the BC Lions' temporary stadium, which would not be appropriate.

[someone123]

My post was not "councillor bashing" -- it was a criticism about the quality of statements and decisions that come from some of our councillors. Perhaps "expert" is too loaded a term, but should I not hold a paid councillor to a higher standard of conduct than a layperson?

From this point on I think I'll mostly avoid this thread. It is interesting now that there is some news but people are getting a little too worked up. At the end of the day please remember that this is a discussion forum and a place for opinions.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by someone123

My post was not "councillor bashing" -- it was a criticism about the quality of statements and decisions that come from some of our councillors. Perhaps "expert" is too loaded a term, but should I not hold a paid councillor to a higher standard of conduct than a layperson?

From this point on I think I'll mostly avoid this thread. It is interesting now that there is some news but people are getting a little too worked up. At the end of the day please remember that this is a discussion forum and a place for opinions.

I wouldn't take it personally - I agree with Fenwick; a number of councillor's are sticking their necks out in an atmosphere where 'tightening spending' is rampant. So I'm sure many members of council are getting pressure from both sides to either go forward or not - so I don't envy them. But so long as we keep things respectful - that's what helps.

I'd have to agree with Empire's comment about Shannon Park - any stadium would look incredible coming up the harbour. That reminds me of the footage from the full opening and closing cerimonies for the Vancouver 2010 games and how they had a helicopter travel up the harbour right over the convention centre to the stadium. So if we ever had something like FIFA or a commonwealth games (or heaven forbid I say it an Olympics - yes I know, snowballs chance in h*ll on that one, but still I like to think big!) - it would look awesome.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about - watch the first 10 minutes of this.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Once again this year the big bad budget bugbear was beaten back by the miraculous rise in property assessments. So they can continue to spend in the most profligate ways, willy-nilly like drunken sailors, without any sort of vision or plan. Random describes them well. Want to go 80% over budget on an underpass project with no consequences? No problem! Want to let staff to sell you on the harebrained idea of clear garbage bags? No problem! Want to OK a bus terminal for $12 million? No problem! We don't need to cut spending! We can just tap into the overburdened, underserviced taxpayer one more time!

Nobody expects you to be experts on everything. But they expect leadership, they expect fiscal responsibility and respect for the taxpayer, and they expect some sense of direction. Taxpayers are getting none of that. All they are getting is hosed.

But aren't you in favour of a stadium?

There was a good opinion piece in the allnovascotia last night. If you factor in inflation and population growth over the past decade, the expenditures per capita is the same as it was a decade ago.

I have to say that councillors don't get treated well on this forum. I am afraid that they get blasted from both the pro-development groups and anti-development groups.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

I wouldn't take it personally - I agree with Fenwick; a number of councillor's are sticking their necks out in an atmosphere where 'tightening spending' is rampant. So I'm sure many members of council are getting pressure from both sides to either go forward or not - so I don't envy them. But so long as we keep things respectful - that's what helps.

I'd have to agree with Empire's comment about Shannon Park - any stadium would look incredible coming up the harbour. That reminds me of the footage from the full opening and closing cerimonies for the Vancouver 2010 games and how they had a helicopter travel up the harbour right over the convention centre to the stadium. So if we ever had something like FIFA or a commonwealth games (or heaven forbid I say it an Olympics - yes I know, snowballs chance in h*ll on that one, but still I like to think big!) - it would look awesome.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about - watch the first 10 minutes of this.

I guess I will be the one receiving all the flak from now on if someone123 is going to take a break from this thread. All I have to say is - the DND site northeast of the Halifax Forum is the best location and then watch the negative comments roll in (I still like that location).

I think the FIFA World Men's Cup receives more viewers than the Olympics. The FIFA Men`s Cup is a possibility for Halifax sometime in the future (maybe 2034), especially if the HRM moves forward with the stadium plans. Usually about 8 host cities are required. However, for now we should hope for the FIFA Women`s Cup since that will be a top notch event that will attract many visitors to Halifax.

[q12]

You guys should watch this Global News story on the stadium:

http://www.globalmaritimes.com/media...ediaID=4252977

[wespidel]

Darren Fisher is a really good person as well as a respected city councillor along with many other good and respected councillors that are totally behind a stadium. Darren Fisher was one of the main Councillors that brought the motion forward to bid on the FIFA bid. Friday is the deadline for the host cities to but in their last and final bid to be selected one of the 6 hosts cities if Canada wins the FIFA Women`s World Cup of Soccer.

I hope if Councillor Fisher reads this post that he is behind a major stadium to be build in Halifax more than just building a 30 to 60 million dollar cheaper low end stadium. Councillor Fisher if that was to happen Halifax would have the cheapest stadium amongst all the major cities in Canada. Case and point, Winnipeg is building a new state of the art 200 million dollar CFL model stadium, Ottawa a new modern 140 million dollar CFL stadium, looks like Regina will build their 430 million dollar retractable roof CFL stadium, now with Harper`s new gas fund can be used to build stadiums, Hamilton with their new CFL model 154 million dollar stadium, BC with their 560 dollar CFL/ professional soccer stadium and MTL who just finished last year their newly renovated CFL stadium. Another valid point Councillor Fisher I would like to make is that the Mayor of Moncton and Mark Cohon the commissioner of the CFL have said that in order for them to attract a CFL franchise owner that they would have to spend a minium of 75 million dollars to bring Moncton`s small inadequate Stade stadium up to CFL standards.

My point being Councillor Fisher, if Halifax is the only major city in Canada without a major stadium and really wants to be a player on a National and Global stage, Halifax needs to build a major stadium and spend at least 85 to 115 million, minium to have a facility that has 25,000 permanent seats, with all the latest amenities, such as skyboxes, etc. with a partial covered roof and with open endzones so they can expand it to 50,000 with temporary seats to host a Grey Cup and major concerts.

Councillor Fisher, I believe it`s essential that this becomes Halifax`s main goal and then I believe you would get even better support from the Feds and the NS Govt., if Halifax builds a major stadium and not a second rate, low end facility. Remember what Peter MacKay said on local TV, that he would support a major stadium. The two drawings that were shown last night on CTV local news were embarraasing, and extremely cheap looking and on a very low end scale. I hope we do not build a facility like CTV local news showed last night, they looked terrible and would be an eye sore and I believe these structures would not be very popular or supported. They looked to be a copy of BC lions temporary stadium but a bit up scaled which would be in the range of 30 million and I suppose the same designed, bowl type modular fixed structure could be upgraded and built with extras for 50 or 60 million. The drawings were not very impressive. I hope Halifax does not go that route! It would be an embarrassment to our city and the country.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I guess I will be the one receiving all the flak from now on if someone123 is going to take a break from this thread. All I have to say is - the DND site northeast of the Halifax Forum is the best location and then watch the negative comments roll in (I still like that location).

I think the FIFA World Men's Cup receives more viewers than the Olympics. The FIFA Men`s Cup is a possibility for Halifax sometime in the future (maybe 2034), especially if the HRM moves forward with the stadium plans. Usually about 8 host cities are required. However, for now we should hope for the FIFA Women`s Cup since that will be a top notch event that will attract many visitors to Halifax.

Well - I will take a shot that I disagree in the sense of really watching a camera pan up the harbour over downtown, over the MacDonald bridge and then to the stadium. But, I can also see the merit of doing the same and into some urban areas onto an urban stadium on the DND site by the forum.

I guess for me, my only issue with Windsor Park is what is the likelyhood that the land would become available anytime soon? And, what is the likelyhood that loblaws would sell their land if the stadium needed more room? It doesn't hurt to ask - but that would add to the cost because they will give the land away and I don't think you could expropriate federal land. Plus either way, you still pay for it.

I would say that's why Dartmouth Crossing and Shannon Park are probably front runner sites - because the ease of getting the land is there, thus if a decision was made quickly - getting the shovels into the ground wouldn't take a long time. Granted I'm making an assumption on Shannon Park, which may not have any real foundation since Canada Lands may have bigger plans for the site and not be willing to sell it, which would then put DC to the front of the list.

But if timing wasn't an issue, I'd be right with you Fenwick on the forum site.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by q12

You guys should watch this Global News story on the stadium:

http://www.globalmaritimes.com/media...ediaID=4252977

According to the report - the stadium could actually fit on the Cogswell Interchange lands? Hmm...don't know if I like that idea. I have to agree with a previous poster, leave those lands for office and hotel development.

[wespidel]

My concern, is that CTV local news had to recieve these drawings from the city and I know the better 60 million drawing was not posted, but it`s not in the league of the stadium above the was just posted which I like a lot, especially the design with open endzones! It would look good on the Shannon Park site, sort of looks like the CommonWealth stadium Halifax was going to build!

[wespidel]

I like the design myself and the look as well, love the open endzone concept, plenty of room to expand for major events, like a Grey Cup. I`m impressed with it, what would you change or add to it, Fenwick?

[FuzzyWuz]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Once again this year the big bad budget bugbear was beaten back by.....

Now that's some hardcore alliteration.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by wespidel

I like the design myself and the look as well, love the open endzone concept, plenty of room to expand for major events, like a Grey Cup. I`m impressed with it, what would you change or add to it, Fenwick?

I really like it. However, it only has 14,000 along the sidelines. It would be great if about 20,000 - 25,000 could fit along the sidelines.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

According to the report - the stadium could actually fit on the Cogswell Interchange lands? Hmm...don't know if I like that idea. I have to agree with a previous poster, leave those lands for office and hotel development.

Here is the 10,000 seat Metro Centre superimposed on the Cogswell St. interchange. A 20,000 seat stadium would require 2-3 times the area of the Metro Centre and this site is completely out of the question. As it is, streets would still occupy most of a revamped Cogswell St. site. If 4 slim tall towers could be put there it would be very tight.

[dmont]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

It is good to see you posting on this thread again dmont. PS: I wonder if we still need a stadium logo? Maybe now the focus should be on a CFL team logo. It will be tough to top the Atlantic Schooners logo (in my opinion):

Heya Fenwick, sounds like you've been busy.

Sure you need a stadium logo. This project is by no means signed-sealed-delivered. Right now it's in the concept stage, just wait 'til it gets serious and then you'll really see the NIMBYs and naysayers come out. And if the Commonwealth Games taught us anything, it's that hosting an international sporting event is NOT a commitment device, as far as Halifax voters are concerned. Getting this stadium built will be more PR campaign than anything else, and logos are useful for that.

And as for the Schooners, here's another logo I made recently:

[Empire]

Originally Posted by dmont

Heya Fenwick, sounds like you've been busy.

Sure you need a stadium logo. This project is by no means signed-sealed-delivered. Right now it's in the concept stage, just wait 'til it gets serious and then you'll really see the NIMBYs and naysayers come out. And if the Commonwealth Games taught us anything, it's that hosting an international sporting event is NOT a commitment device, as far as Halifax voters are concerned. Getting this stadium built will be more PR campaign than anything else, and logos are useful for that.

And as for the Schooners, here's another logo I made recently:

Great logo, is there any way to introduce blue & white....maybe the letters?

[halifaxboyns]

Very nice uniform - I agree with empire, I think Blue and white would be more workable for the ocean?