Calgary Stoney Trail [Ring Road]

[kw5150]

you mean endless ignoring of green-thinking planners.........The 37th street alignment seems pointless and destructive. We need to re-eastablish talks with the Tsuu Tina

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by kw5150

you mean endless ignoring of green-thinking planners.........The 37th street alignment seems pointless and destructive. We need to re-eastablish talks with the Tsuu Tina

Ignoring? Maybe your definition of green-thinking means not a single plant harmed in the making of this film or something. Any construction projects in sensitive areas take many many measures to protect the area they are in. It can be done with minimal disturbance, but I guess to a green-thinking planner even minimal is too much?

It's either chipmunks or ancient burial sites, take your pick.

[DarkKeyo]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Endless debating over solved issues is why infrastructure projects are often delayed by years (if not decades, in the case of the SWRR).

Agreed.

And, Mazrim, KW, if you're going to debate constructively, tear apart and analyze my last post, not random sniping at bits of the issue...

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by DarkKeyo

Agreed.

And, Mazrim, KW, if you're going to debate constructively, tear apart and analyze my last post, not random sniping at bits of the issue...

I'm not sure I understand. I wasn't responding to you. I don't really have any problems with what you said.

I've made comments about environmental concerns previously in this thread. I'm not going to bother rehashing them all.

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by kw5150

you mean endless ignoring of green-thinking planners.........The 37th street alignment seems pointless and destructive. We need to re-eastablish talks with the Tsuu Tina

Agreed. Too much environmental concerns with a bridge through the weaselhead and way too much money for a tunnel.

Not to mention having a highway through the reserve could serve and an catalyst for the economic integration and growth of the reserve into the city.

[MalcolmTucker]

What are these environmental concerns? Large towers on the valley floor perhaps hundreds of meters away from the river itself? And temporary access roads to build said towers?

For the amount of concern I have to wonder if people think building a road is like strip mining for bitumen? We have lots of bridges that cross rivers with nary any damage to the water supply.

[kw5150]

37th alignment........ Whatever. Go ahead!

[craner]

Originally Posted by kw5150

you mean endless ignoring of green-thinking planners.........The 37th street alignment seems pointless and destructive. We need to re-eastablish talks with the Tsuu Tina

I agree that the route through the Tsuu Tina is the best option but haven't we been trying that for 50 years and getting nowhere ?

[Oliver Klozov]

Originally Posted by kw5150

..... We need to re-eastablish talks with the Tsuu Tina

A total waste of time and money!

They have learned that there are so many self-loathing, guilt-ridden white folks out there that it's a never-ending

offer more, get a deal ...... no, if you made that deal you must have more, we want more

offer more, get a deal ...... no, if you made that deal you must have more, we want more

offer more, get a deal ...... no, if you made that deal you must have more, we want more

offer more, get a deal ...... no, if you made that deal you must have more, we want more

offer more, get a deal ...... no, if you made that deal you must have more, we want more

[kw5150]

Originally Posted by Oliver Klozov

A total waste of time and money!

They have learned that there are so many self-loathing, guilt-ridden white folks out there that it's a never-ending

offer more, get a deal ...... no, if you made that deal you must have more, we want more

offer more, get a deal ...... no, if you made that deal you must have more, we want more

offer more, get a deal ...... no, if you made that deal you must have more, we want more

offer more, get a deal ...... no, if you made that deal you must have more, we want more

offer more, get a deal ...... no, if you made that deal you must have more, we want more

Well the land belongs to them. How would you feel about a large freeway running through your land? They have every right to want to get the best deal. Has the whole process been perfect? Absolutely not, but I hope we are moving beyond the past issues. Maybe the timing is better now that the area has a more clear direction going forward?

Maybe the Tsuu Tina had plans for that land tat we dont know about.......

[MalcolmTucker]

The deal had some problems with some of the compensation that the province just wasn't innovative enough to fix. The deal granted the band a bunch of land and mineral rights on the west end of the reserve, but the federal government has to approve the incorporation of the land into the reserve.

From the outside it seems that it would have been pretty easy to bring the federal government into the talks to nail down that point, especially since at the time I believe the minister responsible was Jim Prentice, but either it couldn't be done, or there was no thought that it should be done.

It seems like incompetence more than anything on the province's part, not the amount of compensation from media reports and what co-workers at the time who were voting members told me.

[freeweed]

I'd gladly take a large freeway running right next door to my house if it gave me millions of dollars in return.

The problem in this case, as with many native issues, is that the people affected are not the ones receiving the compensation. I'm not surprised they voted against the earlier deal.

[Bassic Lab]

Originally Posted by craner

I agree that the route through the Tsuu Tina is the best option but haven't we been trying that for 50 years and getting nowhere ?

Not really. There were serious negotiations for only a short time quite recently. They did make progress, arriving at a deal that was then rejected by band membership. It isn't like the province had been trying for fifty years or did so without any results.

The T'suu T'ina has expressed some desire to return to the table. The province should really just tell the band council to figure out what problems the membership had. If the issues were something we're willing to move on then it could solve a lot of problems. There were reports that ambiguous language over the transfer of replacement land to the reserve had some members worried. There is good reason for them to question our word.

[suburb]

Dumb question. Why the heck was the SW portion of Calgary that sits South of the West half of the reservoir and up against 37th ever get built?

Here is where I'm coming from ...

While there are other neighborhoods being built way out there, and while many may not like that, at least they are being built with transit and transport corridors in mind. Cranston and the South Health Campus are examples - but Deerfoot was upgraded and there are transit ROWs in place.

[suburb]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

Ignoring? Maybe your definition of green-thinking means not a single plant harmed in the making of this film or something. Any construction projects in sensitive areas take many many measures to protect the area they are in. It can be done with minimal disturbance, but I guess to a green-thinking planner even minimal is too much?

It's either chipmunks or ancient burial sites, take your pick.

Yeah - there needs to be a balance in the green talk. An animal other than a human poops and it is called nature. A human animal poops and it is meddling with nature. To me it's all fertilizer.

[MalcolmTucker]

There were reports that ambiguous language over the transfer of replacement land to the reserve had some members worried. There is good reason for them to question our word.

The provinces couldn't put in the contract it would become reserve land, because the province had/has no control over that process.

[suburb]

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

The provinces couldn't put in the contract it would become reserve land, because the province had/has no control over that process.

Even then, the value of what was proposed was substantial to say the least. If it was for reserve land, it would have not been such a high ratio and money on top. I believe what had been proposed was more than fair - especially when you consider that Tsuu T'ina First Nation's on-reserve population is less than 2,400 (how is that for sprawl). The proposal would have seen the First Nation transfer 400 hectares of land in exchange for $240 million and 2,000 hectares of Crown land on the northwest border of the reserve stretching west to the edge of Kananskis Country. That would have been $100,000 per person on top of five hectares for each hectare provided. Personally I think it was too much and I think if the land is sacred to the nation, we should respect that and not push them more. Find a way to deal with what is available - and the Tsuu T'ina land is not available.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

What are these environmental concerns? Large towers on the valley floor perhaps hundreds of meters away from the river itself? And temporary access roads to build said towers?

For the amount of concern I have to wonder if people think building a road is like strip mining for bitumen? We have lots of bridges that cross rivers with nary any damage to the water supply.

My concern is not so much the construction, as it is the actual traffic using the bridge. Have you ever seen the disgusting amount of plastic wrap and trash that flies off of inproperly tarped truck loads? I swear a good third of litter in this city, and almost 100% of the litter on highways is from trucks.

[MalcolmTucker]

Can always net in the road deck no?

[Oliver Klozov]

Originally Posted by suburb

Even then, the value of what was proposed was substantial to say the least. If it was for reserve land, it would have not been such a high ratio and money on top. I believe what had been proposed was more than fair - especially when you consider that Tsuu T'ina First Nation's on-reserve population is less than 2,400 (how is that for sprawl). The proposal would have seen the First Nation transfer 400 hectares of land in exchange for $240 million and 2,000 hectares of Crown land on the northwest border of the reserve stretching west to the edge of Kananskis Country. That would have been $100,000 per person on top of five hectares for each hectare provided. Personally I think it was too much and I think if the land is sacred to the nation, we should respect that and not push them more. Find a way to deal with what is available - and the Tsuu T'ina land is not available.

Exactly. I have no problem with them not wanting the deal. If they don't want to sell for what was a more than fair offer, fine, keep it.

My point is re-opening negotiations is pointless. They don't want to sell.

The only negotiation now should be for what they should have to pay for a casino access.