Regina | New Mosaic Stadium

[youngregina]

People also have to take into consideration the possibility of this facility also hosting conventions extremely close to the downtown core, large events such as concerts as well. However, there are more things this can be used for than concerts. Concerts are only one aspect that many of you have been stuck arguing against; because supposedly we think this is solely the other reason this should be built. However, it is more about redeveloping a large area of land that couldn't be put to much better use. There will be quite the excess of space left over even after the stadium is built; so high rise residential and commercial is not out of the equation. The pathways that connect the downtown to the stadium and warehouse district are supposed to be high quality strips that are scenic and industrious; they will give the pedestrians a sensation that can only be felt here, which is something that I'm sure the plan strives for as well. Remember too, that this is only a 30 000 seat space, so not much bigger than what we already have... however it is expandable as demand persists. So to say that this is too big is not really a correct statement. Just think of taylor field with a roof. Not that big right? The lands that taylor field and the practice fields sit on now, could be put to much better use in that specific neighbourhood. Such as low income housing, grocery store, and community space that is desperately needed. Parking also wont be too much of a concern with the huge superstore lot still in use for game nights, the entire warehouse district, which is just streets upon streets of unused space at night. And the facilities downtown can cover the rest. Most of them arent even used after 7 anyways, so it would be an incredibly efficient use of the parking structures we already have. I am not also saying that this will create business in the area. However, what it will do is bring 30000 people downtown every time there is a game, and create awareness of the places that are already there. This will in time create the need for new business, as the old ones will fill as popularity grows. Also, this will be perfect for transit as well, considering all the drunkards will be able to walk right over to cornwall to hop on a bus to anywhere in the city... or stay and cruise the bars. This also means that shuttle service to the games and concerts and conventions, etc... can be integrated with the routes we already have, enabling a more efficient use of transit. I'm very sure that Regina will be able to find a way to use the space when not in use either, we are a very resourceful city. We take pride in the space that we have and the new spaces that can be used. Remember, we all have something called creativity.. so you guys should use it and come up with some ideas about how else this stadium could be used. I'm sure you will even surprise yourself.

[skthunder77]

Originally Posted by youngregina

People also have to take into consideration the possibility of this facility also hosting conventions extremely close to the downtown core, large events such as concerts as well. However, there are more things this can be used for than concerts. Concerts are only one aspect that many of you have been stuck arguing against; because supposedly we think this is solely the other reason this should be built. However, it is more about redeveloping a large area of land that couldn't be put to much better use. There will be quite the excess of space left over even after the stadium is built; so high rise residential and commercial is not out of the equation. The pathways that connect the downtown to the stadium and warehouse district are supposed to be high quality strips that are scenic and industrious; they will give the pedestrians a sensation that can only be felt here, which is something that I'm sure the plan strives for as well. Remember too, that this is only a 30 000 seat space, so not much bigger than what we already have... however it is expandable as demand persists. So to say that this is too big is not really a correct statement. Just think of taylor field with a roof. Not that big right? The lands that taylor field and the practice fields sit on now, could be put to much better use in that specific neighbourhood. Such as low income housing, grocery store, and community space that is desperately needed. Parking also wont be too much of a concern with the huge superstore lot still in use for game nights, the entire warehouse district, which is just streets upon streets of unused space at night. And the facilities downtown can cover the rest. Most of them arent even used after 7 anyways, so it would be an incredibly efficient use of the parking structures we already have. I am not also saying that this will create business in the area. However, what it will do is bring 30000 people downtown every time there is a game, and create awareness of the places that are already there. This will in time create the need for new business, as the old ones will fill as popularity grows. Also, this will be perfect for transit as well, considering all the drunkards will be able to walk right over to cornwall to hop on a bus to anywhere in the city... or stay and cruise the bars. This also means that shuttle service to the games and concerts and conventions, etc... can be integrated with the routes we already have, enabling a more efficient use of transit. I'm very sure that Regina will be able to find a way to use the space when not in use either, we are a very resourceful city. We take pride in the space that we have and the new spaces that can be used. Remember, we all have something called creativity.. so you guys should use it and come up with some ideas about how else this stadium could be used. I'm sure you will even surprise yourself.

That is exactly the argument I have tried to articulate several times but couldn't formulate it as eloquently as you have. Well done...and thanks!

I can't wait for this thing to be built!

[thefourthtower]

Young Regina you should have this printed in the regina leader post, good show

[UPP]

Originally Posted by Dalreg

How many of these tours stopped in Saskatoon in 2010? If you are proposing a half stadium concert then we are looking at what 15'000? The size doesn't really matter, its the demand from the fans. No band will set up and perform if they aren't going to get a huge crowd....

This stadium would be lucky to hold a half dozen large concerts a year.

I think the big wild card will be its connection to the Casino. That may help in drawing more concerts, trade shows, conventions and other events than we may well imagine.

[Spongebob]

Murray Mandryk's article in today's LP is interesting. He seems to get behind the stadium project in light of the push for low income housing on the old Taylor Field site. While this has most likely been the plan all along, Mandryk is right when he says it should have been part of the selling package right from the start making it more palatable for the Feds to contribute money. Things are getting very interesting now. If this project proceeds as proposed, Regina is in for a transformation unlike it has ever seen in its history. I am impressed.

http://www.leaderpost.com/opinion/editorials/more+than+just+stadium+project/4230149/story.html

[Migs]

Originally Posted by Spongebob

Murray Mandryk's article in today's LP is interesting. He seems to get behind the stadium project in light of the push for low income housing on the old Taylor Field site. While this has most likely been the plan all along, Mandryk is right when he says it should have been part of the selling package right from the start making it more palatable for the Feds to contribute money. Things are getting very interesting now. If this project proceeds as proposed, Regina is in for a transformation unlike it has ever seen in its history. I am impressed.

http://www.leaderpost.com/opinion/editorials/more+than+just+stadium+project/4230149/story.html

This is what happens when we have great leaders like Wall and Fiacco, both are pretty much untouchables these days.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by Migs

trueviking...its a museum.

And no, its not just a stadium. It is a year round facility that can be configured to host arena events, so in essence its a faciltiy that can host a much larger array of events than the MTS Centre in Winnipeg, you know, the one you guys built downtown.

And after reading your comments earlier I decided to take a little google trip through the forks for a little perspective. First of all, what is with those large parking lots on waterfront Drive, I assume its for the train station? Thankfully you won't see any large parking lots like that in our new development. Secondly I see alot of greenery, lots of pedestrian friendly areas, a hotel, some residential, a couple museums, some retail, overall a very nice urban setting. Like I said already, take away your two museums and replace them with the indoor arena/stadium and you get basically the same type of development.

ps..... at the conclusion of my very enjoyable google trip I decided to take a turn to the north part of the forks along Waterfront drive, and what did I see, a baseball stadium with parking lots galore. So I guess your 'Forks' analogy only pertains to football stadiums, not baseball stadiums lol

....you can't write this stuff.

yeah migs...you will find out that rail yard developments are decades long projects...that great plan that you see will not be what is built in regina....it will change many times before it is all built out....there was a plan like that for the forks 20 years ago too...things develop organically....the parking lots you are referring to are slated to become high density residential development...the forks is working on that currently.

suggesting that simply replacing two museums with a football stadium shows a lack of understanding....those museums when completed will bring hundreds of people every day, throughout the day to the site...that is the consistent type of activity that spurs development....stadiums that have an influx of 35000 people (20 000 cars) 10-20 times a year do not...they simply do not have the sustained activity to support other business....and the intensity of that activity for short periods most often has a detrimental effect on the surroundings....google earth almost every major urban football stadium in north america and see what the surroundings look like....that is not the case with museums that may bring as many people overall, but not in short 3 hour long bursts.

the baseball stadium you point to in winnipeg is a very good example...it was sold as a key piece of downtown redevelopment, bringing 7000 people downtown 50-60 times a year, yet not a single business has grown from that catalyst....it is a dead zone for 300 days a year and disconnects the exchange district from the forks.

the things youngregina says sound great and are the arguments that are often made to governments, but the reality is that it almost never ends up that way....this is not the first 'multi-use' stadium ever built....there are many precedents to use as evidence of what to expect.

im not saying this is the wrong location, all i am saying is that the argument that a stadium is a catalyst for urban development is a flawed one and should not be used to justify this project...there may be many more reasons to support it but that isnt one.

you can keep calling a cow a duck but in the end it will still moo.

[Dalreg]

Love that last line!

No matter how many football games or concerts are performed there every year, in the end this Stadium will be empty a lot more times than filled.....

Hopefully this thing doesn't turn into the white elephant or cow that I expect it to be. Oh well the Regina Pats can move in, an extra 5,000 people time 40 odd games a year will surely help pay for this stadium. Maybe We can get Celine Dion to move up from Vegas and perform every night, there must be a huge demand for a 30,000+ venue each and every night in Regina.....

[trueviking]

So....what is the parking strategy for the stadium anyways. Refresh my memory.

[Welkin]

This is what happens when we have great leaders like Wall and Fiacco, both are pretty much untouchables these days.

TrueViking- You might as well hang it up, at least on this thread. You would get better results arguing your points with your neighbor's dog. Evidently Regina has turned into a Wonderland of True Believers where logic and reason are no longer in fashion. It does not matter that no football stadium has ever led to a revitalization of a downtown core, it will in Regina. It does not matter that concerts and trade shows that never travel to Western Canada (much less southern Saskatchewan) will now start booking Regina in droves.

This project no longer has anything to do with economics and everything to do with politics, vanity and the feeling that the province is "owed" this stadium by the federal government. I would even say that now since low/moderate income housing and rebuilding North Central have become part of this project, that getting this thing built depends entirely on massive federal contributions of well more than $100-$150 million. No massive federal contributions, no Multipurpose Entertainment Football Stadium.

My advice to you is the same advice I am giving myself. Step back, observe and let them have their dream. Quit wasting your time trying to bring logic and knowledgeable information to this thread. They don't want to hear it. I am just going to let it ride out and see where this whole thing goes (although I already have a good idea how it ends up). What a long strange trip it will be. I honestly wish these True Believers the best of success. Go Riders.

[thefourthtower]

,if built it will change regina for ever this city will never be the same ,fourty six acres of prime land downtown to be developed, lots of great things can come out of this its time for a new mulitiplex, can the wall govt pull this off who knows

[jvj]

Originally Posted by Migs

You still haven't told me what the difference is between putting two large museums into a revitilization plan (the forks in Wpg) and an indoor multi-purpose entertainment facility (Regina)? And I am not sure why you continuously try to persuade us that you are right and the most powerful people in Saskatchewan are wrong. You do understand that this facility has the potential to bring almost half a million people annually (that otherwise wouldn't be there) into the downtown corp. How can you actually try and spin that into being anything but a great thing for the downtown and warehouse district? And like I said already (but you conveniently avoided), there are alot of similiar aspects between the forks in Winnipeg and the new development in Regina. (ie retail, condos, hotels, restaurants, public squares, playgrounds, etc). Take away your two museums and replace it with a multipurpose entertainment centre and you have bascially the same type of development.

So...I'm not sure if we ever established what exactly the difference is between 2 museums and 1 multi purpose facility. I would agree with Migs that the goal of related development (retail, hotels, restaurants, public squares, etc.) could all be part of the overall site redevelopment. More importantly the Office for Urbanism seems to think that all of these items listed can be a part of the redevelopment as well, so that is encouraging. Also, as part of the initial study I recall that 10 different groups responded to an Expression of Interest advertisement looking for parties to participate in related developments in the area.

One other thought...sort of related to the museum topic...the concept plan for the facility has an area designated for the Saskatchewan Sports Hall of Fame. The presence of this would be one example of how traffic can be generated on days other than Rider game days. In fact I would suggest that they could create a Hall of Fame dedicated to the Riders only. Hey we've got 100 years of history to celebrate...might as well take advantage of this new facility and locate it there!!!

[Chaps]

Originally Posted by trueviking

So....what is the parking strategy for the stadium anyways. Refresh my memory.

If you and your brethren are as concerned with this development as you claim to be...why don't you go read the bloody report yourself and learn the answers instead of baiting Migs time and time and time again?

You claim innocence and sincere intent, but you are about as genuine as a Rolecks.

Seriously, anyone genuinely interested would have read the report LONG ago.

I've stayed out of this...but every thread has been hijacked with this type of crap. Some of us are actually interested in the news surrounding the project.

Stay classy.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by Chaps

If you and your brethren are as concerned with this development as you claim to be...why don't you go read the bloody report yourself and learn the answers instead of baiting Migs time and time and time again?

i dont really care at all actually...im simply expressing my opinion based on my experience....i worked on the feasibility study of the domed stadium proposal in winnipeg so i am very familiar with the issues...im not sure why it is being taken as an attack or as baiting...my points are as legitimate as his.....i dont oppose this stadium at all...i'd love to see it built....its just that there are a lot of things being said here that can and should be disputed.

the fact is that there is no parking strategy, which is actually incredible....the proposal is that the warehouse district and downtown accommodate 10-15000 cars when the stadium is in use....as an urban planing strategy that is a dangerous approach....this will invite demolition in these areas as land owners try to capitalize on the parking demand which will harm the integrity of the neighbourhood.....simply offloading the parking demands on the community will lead to a degradation of the urban fabric.

if this facility is as high use as they claim, it will be far more profitable to create a surface parking lot than to restore a warehouse or build a new building....increasing parking pressures on an urban area can have major negative effect....they are not complimentary to each other.

it is actually quite unbelievable that this is the proposal....google earth any stadium in north america...it is surrounded in parking.....do people in regina actually think that spreading those lots through their downtown is a good idea?

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by jvj

So...I'm not sure if we ever established what exactly the difference is between 2 museums and 1 multi purpose facility. I would agree with Migs that the goal of related development (retail, hotels, restaurants, public squares, etc.) could all be part of the overall site redevelopment. More importantly the Office for Urbanism seems to think that all of these items listed can be a part of the redevelopment as well, so that is encouraging. Also, as part of the initial study I recall that 10 different groups responded to an Expression of Interest advertisement looking for parties to participate in related developments in the area.
e!!!

its about patterns of use....the area around a stadium has to be designed to accommodate the maximum intensity of use even when that occurs only 1% of the time....this leads to vast parking lots and large open spaces that are often empty..the exact opposite of good urban development....as well, the short bursts of intense use is not appropriate as a catalyst for outside development....the economic flow is not consistent enough as even the busiest multi purpose facility sits empty 95% of the time.....this has been proven over and over in north american cities.

a museum on the other hand may draw the same number of total users per year, but in a consistent flow every day, all day....this means that the infrastructure to support it can be far smaller...there is never a need to accommodate 15000 cars or 35000 people......the slow and steady patterns of use does help to spur outside development because it is consistent.

[Chaps]

Originally Posted by trueviking

i dont really care at all actually...im simply expressing my opinion based on my experience....i worked on the feasibility study of the domed stadium proposal in winnipeg so i am very familiar with the issues.

the fact is that there is no parking strategy, which is actually incredible....the proposal is that the warehouse district and downtown accommodate 10-15000 cars when the stadium is in use....as an urban planing strategy that is a dangerous approach....this will invite demolition in these areas as land owners try to capitalize on the parking demand which will harm the integrity of the neighbourhood.....simply offloading the parking demands on the community will lead to a degradation of the urban fabric.

if this facility is as high use as they claim it will be far more profitable to create a surface parking lot than to restore a warehouse or build a new building....increasing parking pressures like that can have major negative effect....

it is actually quite unbelievable that this is the proposal....google earth any stadium in north america...it is surrounded in parking.....do people in regina actually think that spreading those lots through their downtown is a good idea?

Coles notes of this post:

"Yes I was blatantly trolling in my previous posts."

[trueviking]

opposing opinion is not trolling.

[CCF]

Originally Posted by trueviking

the fact is that there is no parking strategy, which is actually incredible....the proposal is that the warehouse district and downtown accommodate 10-15000 cars when the stadium is in use....as an urban planing strategy that is a dangerous approach....this will invite demolition in these areas as land owners try to capitalize on the parking demand which will harm the integrity of the neighbourhood.....simply offloading the parking demands on the community will lead to a degradation of the urban fabric.

The best way to encourage people to commute by personal automobile is to provide the infrastructure that allows them to do so. If you provide endless amounts of parking at a destination, then people are going to drive there. This makes alternative forms of transportation ineffective. The strategy in Regina is to try and make transit more efficient and effective, and the best way to do that, is to make it more competitive with driving.

A significant portion of people attending Rider games at the current site, park in downtown and the warehouse district. Nothing will change that facet.

Perhaps demolishing a building in Winnipeg is a matter of filling out an application but the new downtown plan in Regina does not allow any more surface parking lots. Buildings cannot be replaced by parking. It's prohibited.

As has been mentioned previously, this proposal includes a Sports Hall of Fame and Museum. This will provide a constant flow of people to the site, even during times where there is no event scheduled. This is anticipated to be located along Dewdney Avenue and is an appropriate use at grade. One might be concerned that the facade would be a blank wall of the stadium, but that is simply not the case.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by CCF

A significant portion of people attending Rider games at the current site, park in downtown and the warehouse district. .

not according to the report....almost half park on the surface lots directly beside the stadium....the estimate is that the parking in downtown and warehouse district will triple from its current amounts.

forcing people to not drive to games seems a bit unrealistic to me....its more likely that the surrounding neighbourhoods will adapt to accommodate the parking shortfall instead.

thats great to hear that regina has banned the creation of surface parking....that can often be a challenge politically....this does however discourage development of existing lots by providing significant revenue opportunity to the land owners.

[Migs]

Originally Posted by trueviking

yeah migs...you will find out that rail yard developments are decades long projects...that great plan that you see will not be what is built in regina....it will change many times before it is all built out....there was a plan like that for the forks 20 years ago too...things develop organically....the parking lots you are referring to are slated to become high density residential development...the forks is working on that currently.

You have absolutely no idea whatsoever if the plans will change.

suggesting that simply replacing two museums with a football stadium shows a lack of understanding

The only person who doesn't have an understanding is you as its quite obvious you are missing key parts to what this project entails.

....those museums when completed will bring hundreds of people every day, throughout the day to the site

Personally I see both as good infill projects, which is why I like the idea we are implementing both. Truth is that the stadium will include a sports bar/restaurants as well as a Sk Sports hall of fame/museum and a Roughriders store (remember how many millions of dollars per year are generated by the sales of roughrider merch). Those three things together with residential, commercial, and development and the public squares, most people will come to understand that the area will attract hundreds of people per day even on days that don't have events at the stadium.

that is the consistent type of activity that spurs development....stadiums that have an influx of 35000 people (20 000 cars) 10-20 times a year do not...they simply do not have the sustained activity to support other business....and the intensity of that activity for short periods most often has a detrimental effect on the surroundings....google earth almost every major urban football stadium in north america and see what the surroundings look like....that is not the case with museums that may bring as many people overall, but not in short 3 hour long bursts.

That is where you are continuously missing the boat, not only will this be a covered multipurpose facility, it will also include a museum that will house the Sk Sports Hall of fame as well as a Roughrider/football museum that will attract hundreds of people on a daily basis (also a rumoured CFL-themed sports bar). So in reality, our facility will not only enjoy the benefits you state that come with a cultural theme (museum), they will also include the half million people annually that would attend events the stadium itself.

the baseball stadium you point to in winnipeg is a very good example...it was sold as a key piece of downtown redevelopment, bringing 7000 people downtown 50-60 times a year, yet not a single business has grown from that catalyst....it is a dead zone for 300 days a year and disconnects the exchange district from the forks.

Is that baseball stadium a multipurpose covered facility that can host alot more events other than baseball? I believe it was you who said that arenas can work in downtown cores, our facility will serve a similar purpose in that it can host pretty much any event, even moreso than the MTS Centre in Winnipeg.

the things youngregina says sound great and are the arguments that are often made to governments, but the reality is that it almost never ends up that way....this is not the first 'multi-use' stadium ever built....there are many precedents to use as evidence of what to expect.

You choose to look at the glass as 1/8th empty, we choose to look at it as almost full. There are projects such as the one in Columbus that have been proven successful, its all about coming up with a good plan that suits an areas need. What you guys had planned for Winnipeg's domed stadium obviously didn't work out, our feasibility study stated the opposite in regards to our plan.

im not saying this is the wrong location, all i am saying is that the argument that a stadium is a catalyst for urban development is a flawed one and should not be used to justify this project...there may be many more reasons to support it but that isnt one.

You see this is where your argument once again falls off the rails, the multipurpose facility is one one aspect of this project. Remember this facility will be attached to Regina's biggest tourist attraction and will also include future development similar to that of the forks in Winnipeg. Most logical people understand that a multipurpose facility will attract upwards of half a million people annually on events days, not including the many that will be attracted to the area for reasons stated above. Thankfully the most powerful people in Sk share this vision.

you can keep calling a cow a duck but in the end it will still moo.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, its usually a duck. Its obvious to most people what your purpose is in this thread.