Calgary Public Transit II

[fusili]

Originally Posted by polishavenger

I think that once we have a center street subway and an SE line, they should look at a subway in the SW to mount royal. What I would do is take the west leg from the underground station at westbrook and split off a spur heading south along 37th street west. Stations would be at 37th street, and 26th Ave, Richmond Rd and 3th Street, in the middle of currie barracks, at mt royal gate and richard rd, and then at 50th ave and 21st street. About 5km of subway with 5 stations. All along 37th street I would densify to a european scale of around 6 - 8 stories, with a much more intense use around mount royal and the business park next to it. Probably would come out to 1.5billion or so.

That seems like a pie in the sky plan. An at-grade BRT or even a streetcar style (with dedicated lanes) LRT would be much, much more cost effective. There is no need to run 4-5 car consists on this route, we only need to provide quick access between Westbrook and MRU with a moderate capacity. A streetcar (1 to 2 car consists) would be more than enough for the capacity, and with dedicated lanes, the speed differential wouldn't be great. Plus, it is not like traffic on 37th and intersecting roads is so great that signal control would create a traffic nightmare.

The reason we need a centre street subway is because we would actually need 4-5 car consists for the trains (ridership from areas north would be substantial) and running those size of trains at grade along Centre Street would be a nightmare.

I don't want to crush your ideas, but I believe in the right tool for the job. Subways should be used in areas of extremely high density, where at grade operations are not workable. This is not such a case.

[Bassic Lab]

Okay here is part two of the six part series, the Inner Circle LRT. As I note in the report itself, I agree that Phase 2 would not be realistically viable for a very long time if ever.

Inner Circle LRT

Phase 1: The South and West

This phase would serve a few functions. It would act as a downtown bypass for riders from other lines. It would provide new or improved service to major nodes, including major post secondary institutions (the University of Calgary and Mount Royal University), two hospitals (Foothills Hospital and Rockyview Hospital), and three planned large TODs (Brentwood, Westbrook, and Chinook). It would connect inner city areas to the C-Train network in a better way than busses. It would promote increased density within the inner city. It would be roughly 19 kilometers long. There would be 14 stations along the route. An estimated cost for this phase would be something on the order of three billion 2011 dollars. This is quite expensive but the major activity centers along the route, the two universities alone currently have more than 50 000 students and staff between them, should help to justify the cost. If cost is too much of an issue to complete this phase as one project it could be split into two. The portion from Westbrook south could be completed first, this would reduce the initial cost by removing the costly river crossing and nearly two thirds of the subway portion. This phase would be useful at present so, if funding was available, it could be one of the first expansions after the current plans are complete.

Track Routing

The roughly 19 kilometers of track would include both elevated and buried sections. It would begin with elevated track above Lynnview Station on the SE LRT, near Ogden Road and the freight tracks north of Millican Road. It would then head straight west, over Deerfoot Trail, and continue on top of 58 Ave SE. At 3 St SE it would turn south. At 62 Ave SE it would turn west. At the S LRT tracks it would turn south west so that it could continue west over 65 Ave SW. At Macleod Trail it would veer south west so that it could then travel west along the north side of Glenmore Trail. It would continue along the north side of Glenmore until 14 St SW at which point it would cross from the NE side of the intersection to the SW side. It would then head directly west, over top of the reservoir with a new bridge, then continue along the north edge of the Earl Grey Golf Course until Crowchild Trail. At Crowchild it would turn north and continue until Glenmore Trail, where it would turn west along the north edge of the freeway. It would then transition from elevated to buried and then turn north under Richard Road. At Mount Royal Gate the tunnel would veer north west, using Mount Royal Circle and a parking lot to reach 46 Ave SW. It would then travel west under 46 Ave SW until 37 St SW. It would then turn north under 37 St and continue in that direction for some time, crossing under the Bow River. Just south of 5 Ave NW, it would turn north east so as to travel under 36 St NW. It would then turn north at Hospital Drive NW and continue until it crossed under 16 Ave NW. At that point it would veer north west to return to the 37 St NW ROW. It would then head north, this portion could be merely trenched, until it crossed under 24 Ave NW. It would then travel north east underneath the U of C’s fields and Collegiate Boulevard NW until Collegiate Place NW where it would turn north. It would continue under 33 St NW until turning north east to finish under Brentwood Station on the NW LRT.

LRV Purchase

Fifty LRVs, likely SD-160s, would be purchased for this phase. They would operate in ten five car consists. This would allow headways of roughly seven minutes.

Stations

Lynnview Station

This would be an elevated station. It would be located on top of the SE LRT station.

Manchester Station

This would be an elevated station. It would be located over 58 Ave SE just west of Blackfoot Trail.

Chinook Station

This would be an elevated station. It would be located above the southern part of the current Chinook Station, oriented SW-NE.

Meadowland Station

This would be an elevated station. It would be located along the north side of Glenmore trail between Elbow Drive and 5 St SW.

Rockyview Hospital Station

This would be an elevated station. It would be located on the northern portion of the Hospital grounds. This would be a future transfer station

Lakeview Station

This would be an elevated station. It would be located above Crowchild Trail between 63 Ave SW and 66 Ave SW.

Mount Royal University Station

This would be a subway station. It would be located roughly under Mount Royal Gate just west of Richard Road. This would be a future transfer station (see South Crosstown LRT, although this line may precede that one).

Richmond Road Station

This would be a subway station. It would be located under the intersection of 37 St SW and Richmond Rd SW.

26 Ave Station

This would be a subway station. It would be located under the intersection of 37 St SW and 26 Ave SW.

Westbrook Station

This would be a subway station. It would be located under 37 St SW just north of 17 Ave SW. Pedestrian tunnels would be built to facilitate transfers between this station and the Westbrook station on the W LRT.

Spruce Cliff Station

This would be a subway station. It would be located under 37 St SW between 3 Ave SW and 4 Ave SW.

Foothills Hospital Station

This would be a subway station. It would be located under the western portion of the hospital grounds. This would be a future transfer station.

West Campus Station

This would be a subway station. It would be located under Collegiate Boulevard NW just north of the Olympic Oval.

Brentwood Station

This would be a subway station. It would be located under the current Brentwood Station. It would be a transfer station.

Maintenance and Storage Facility

The line would require a large facility able to initially handle at least fifty LRVs with the option to expand it to at least double that number. A possible location would be directly west of Deerfoot between the line and 46 Ave SE. There is currently a junkyard on the southern portion of this site.

Phase 2: Completing the Circle

This phase would connect all of the radial lines to the Inner Circle LRT. This would facilitate transfers around the whole C-Train network and increased redevelopment of the inner city. That said, there are few activity centres along this half of the line so it would likely occur quite some time after Phase 1 with other lines taking priority. This phase would be roughly 21 kilometers long. There would be 13 stations along the route. It should be considerably cheaper than Phase 1, since only 4 kilometers or so would need to be buried with most of the remainder elevated. A cost estimate of just over 2 billion would make sense here. In much the same way as Phase 1, this phase could be broken down into a number of more manageable chunks if it did not make sense to complete it as one project.

Track Routing

Beginning from the end of Phase 1, under Brentwood Station, the line would work its way to under Northmount Drive. This could involve either Brisbois Drive, Brantford Drive, or Charleswood Drive. It would depend on the difficulty of getting through the Brentwood TOD. Brantford Drive is probably the best option for reducing excess tunnel length and sharp turns. It would continue east under Northmount Drive NW until 19 St NW, where it would turn north. It would continue under 19 St NW until just south of John Laurie Boulevard, where it would turn east to follow along the south side of John Laurie. Here the line would transition from subway to elevated. It would continue as elevated track along John Laurie until McKnight Boulevard. There it would turn east to continue along McKnight. This would continue all of the way to Barlow Trail, where the line would turn south. It would continue south along Barlow until around 16 Ave NE where it would make its way south east towards the alley just west of 28 St NE. It would continue south above that alley until just south of Centre Ave. There it would transition to a subway and continue generally southwards to arrive under 27 St SE. It would continue under 27 St SE, crossing under Memorial and the NE LRT, until just south of 17 Ave SE. There it would transition to at grade operation and run south along the west side of 26 St SE. It would continue like that until south of 34 Ave SE where it would then veer south south west to travel between the houses west of 26 St SE and the Deerfoot ROW. Before reaching Peigan Trail the line would transition to elevated track. It would then cross Peigan and continue south along Barlow until after 50 Ave SE. It would then turn south west and follow the freight train ROW until the Lynnview station.

LRV Purchase

Fifty LRVs, of the type ordered for Phase 1, would be purchased to operate on this portion of the line. This would essentially maintain the headways operating on Phase 1.

Stations

Charleswood Station

This would be a subway station. It would be located under Northmount Drive just west of 19 St NW.

14 St NW Station

This would be an elevated station. It would be located at the intersection of John Laurie Boulevard and 14 St NW. This would be a future transfer station.

Highwood Station

This would be an elevated station. It would be located along McKnight Boulevard between 4 St NW and Northmount Drive NW.

Centre Street Station

This would be an elevated station. It would be located at the intersection of McKnight Boulevard and Centre Street N. It would be a transfer station with the N LRT.

Nose Creek Station

This would be an elevated station. It would be located along McKnight Boulevard between Deerfoot Trail and Edmonton Trail. There could be a transfer station with Airdrie Commuter Rail here in the future.

12 St NE Station

This would be an elevated station. It would be located at the intersection of 12 St NE and McKnight Boulevard.

Aviation Station

This would be an elevated station. It would be located along McKnight Boulevard just west of Barlow Trail.

32 Ave NE Station

This would be an elevated station. It would be located at the intersection of 32 Ave NE and Barlow Trail.

16 Ave NE Station

This would be an elevated station. It would be located near the intersection of 16 Ave NE and Barlow Trail. This would be a future transfer station.

Franklin Station

This would be a subway station. It would be located under the current NE LRT station. This would be a transfer station.

17 Ave SE Station

This would be a subway station. It would be located under the intersection of 26 St SE and 17 Ave SE. It would be a transfer station (see South Crosstown LRT).

Valleyview Station

This would be an at grade station. It would be located along the west side of 26 St SE just west of the park.

50 Ave SE Station

This would be an elevated station. It would be located at the intersection of 50 Ave SE and Barlow Trail.

Maintenance and Storage Facility

The facility from Phase 1 would need to be expanded to handle at least one hundred LRVs.

[Bassic Lab]

Originally Posted by fusili

That seems like a pie in the sky plan. An at-grade BRT or even a streetcar style (with dedicated lanes) LRT would be much, much more cost effective. There is no need to run 4-5 car consists on this route, we only need to provide quick access between Westbrook and MRU with a moderate capacity. A streetcar (1 to 2 car consists) would be more than enough for the capacity, and with dedicated lanes, the speed differential wouldn't be great. Plus, it is not like traffic on 37th and intersecting roads is so great that signal control would create a traffic nightmare.

The reason we need a centre street subway is because we would actually need 4-5 car consists for the trains (ridership from areas north would be substantial) and running those size of trains at grade along Centre Street would be a nightmare.

I don't want to crush your ideas, but I believe in the right tool for the job. Subways should be used in areas of extremely high density, where at grade operations are not workable. This is not such a case.

Since my Inner Circle goes over part of the route you're talking about I'm going to try to defend it.

Basically, the corridor between Brentwood and Chinook that I outline is a major employment area. It is spread out and currently auto oriented but in pure numbers it might be comparable to downtown. Either way it is easily comparable in numbers to a the downtown of a city that is not Calgary. There are two universities along the route that currently have more than 50 000 students (okay, they're not really employees but they have to get around as if they are and are more likely to rely on transit than other groups) and staff between them. There are two large hospitals serviced, I have no idea what employment numbers would be like for them but I'd guess pretty big numbers. There are three malls that are all planned to have major TODs developed, the employees are often young and reliant on public transit. The line would also attract riders from all of the communities along the path, who could use it to transfer to radial lines into downtown. That is a significant number of people in west Calgary. I think US cities building LRT systems would love to have the kind of ridership that this line could generate.

Now lets look a head twenty five or thirty years. This would be the earliest point we could realistically have the line operating. That is only if we see near continuous construction to complete the SE LRT, the N LRT, and the 8 Ave Subway. The universities will have expanded; if past trends continue they could have upwards of 80 000 students and staff at that time. The hospitals will have expanded; if they can avoid the need to construct new parkades and actually integrate into the transit network that is a good thing. The TODs will have hopefully been built; a lot of people could be living and working within a short walk of these stations. The population of the surrounding areas will also hopefully have grown significantly. If we are serious about Plan It we are going to need to start putting a lot of infill into areas like the 37 St SW corridor. At that point, running for or five car consists along the route might make a lot of sense. The line might not be as busy as the six radial routes, but it could be very busy.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by Bassic Lab

Since my Inner Circle goes over part of the route you're talking about I'm going to try to defend it.

Basically, the corridor between Brentwood and Chinook that I outline is a major employment area. It is spread out and currently auto oriented but in pure numbers it might be comparable to downtown. Either way it is easily comparable in numbers to a the downtown of a city that is not Calgary. There are two universities along the route that currently have more than 50 000 students (okay, they're not really employees but they have to get around as if they are and are more likely to rely on transit than other groups) and staff between them. There are two large hospitals serviced, I have no idea what employment numbers would be like for them but I'd guess pretty big numbers. There are three malls that are all planned to have major TODs developed, the employees are often young and reliant on public transit. The line would also attract riders from all of the communities along the path, who could use it to transfer to radial lines into downtown. That is a significant number of people in west Calgary. I think US cities building LRT systems would love to have the kind of ridership that this line could generate.

Now lets look a head twenty five or thirty years. This would be the earliest point we could realistically have the line operating. That is only if we see near continuous construction to complete the SE LRT, the N LRT, and the 8 Ave Subway. The universities will have expanded; if past trends continue they could have upwards of 80 000 students and staff at that time. The hospitals will have expanded; if they can avoid the need to construct new parkades and actually integrate into the transit network that is a good thing. The TODs will have hopefully been built; a lot of people could be living and working within a short walk of these stations. The population of the surrounding areas will also hopefully have grown significantly. If we are serious about Plan It we are going to need to start putting a lot of infill into areas like the 37 St SW corridor. At that point, running for or five car consists along the route might make a lot of sense. The line might not be as busy as the six radial routes, but it could be very busy.

I am all for a west side transit route (I also have an idea for one). I was just saying that a subway in particular on 37th ST is a dumb idea. Run the thing at grade, either as a BRT or as an LRT at grade. No need for a tunnel.

The only places that should have a subway at those places where density and traffic are high enough to justify them. I could see doing a subway under Mount Royal University Campus maybe, because the connected style of buildings makes it hard for transit to go into the centre of the campus. But other than that, we should only be going underground where it makes sense.

[Bassic Lab]

Originally Posted by fusili

I am all for a west side transit route (I also have an idea for one). I was just saying that a subway in particular on 37th ST is a dumb idea. Run the thing at grade, either as a BRT or as an LRT at grade. No need for a tunnel.

The only places that should have a subway at those places where density and traffic are high enough to justify them. I could see doing a subway under Mount Royal University Campus maybe, because the connected style of buildings makes it hard for transit to go into the centre of the campus. But other than that, we should only be going underground where it makes sense.

Thing thing is I just can't see any route that would work for a surface LRT. We could put a Streetcar on 37 St, the width of the ROW would essentially require it to operate in traffic, but that isn't much better than a bus for actually moving people. It might have some benefits for development but it wouldn't be very rapid. It could be elevated above 37 St, which would make it a lot cheaper and allow the rapid movement of longer consists, but it would cast a shadow over the whole street scape. I elevated my 17 Ave SE line because the expanded ROW is wide enough to still allow significant light through to the sidewalks. We could probably elevate it along Crowchild but then we need to have some rather odd, and potentially very expensive, detours to actually service any destinations, like MRU. I just don't see any real alternatives to a subway if we want to have rapid transit in that portion of the SW.

With the W LRT we have entered a world where it makes sense to have a subway from Bow Trail and 33 St to 17 Ave and 45 St. I agree with that world and think 37 St can justify equal treatment. It could be turned into the same kind of urban corridor that we want to turn Centre St N into.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by Bassic Lab

Thing thing is I just can't see any route that would work for a surface LRT. We could put a Streetcar on 37 St, the width of the ROW would essentially require it to operate in traffic, but that isn't much better than a bus for actually moving people. It might have some benefits for development but it wouldn't be very rapid. It could be elevated above 37 St, which would make it a lot cheaper and allow the rapid movement of longer consists, but it would cast a shadow over the whole street scape. I elevated my 17 Ave SE line because the expanded ROW is wide enough to still allow significant light through to the sidewalks. We could probably elevate it along Crowchild but then we need to have some rather odd, and potentially very expensive, detours to actually service any destinations, like MRU. I just don't see any real alternatives to a subway if we want to have rapid transit in that portion of the SW.

With the W LRT we have entered a world where it makes sense to have a subway from Bow Trail and 33 St to 17 Ave and 45 St. I agree with that world and think 37 St can justify equal treatment. It could be turned into the same kind of urban corridor that we want to turn Centre St N into.

37th Street has a 5 metre road widening setback on it for most of the length between Westbrook and MRU. That is two lanes and just enough for a median dedicated ROW for a streetcar. That would allow fast enough speeds for that particular line.

Did you know that cars can also operate in single lanes? Or northbound traffic can use 45th or 29th instead of 37th.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by Bassic Lab

I elevated my 17 Ave SE line because the expanded ROW is wide enough to still allow significant light through to the sidewalks. .

Why did you elevate the 17 SE line? That ROW is absolutely massive. You could fit 3 lanes of traffic plus the transit ROW there. Seems expensive and pointless.

EDIT: Note- 17 avene SE has a 7.3 metre road widening setback, on each side of the road from 27th to 50th street.

Notice all those access roads on the south side of 17th between 27th street and 36th? Those aren't private access roads, that is public ROW. 17th has more space than you could imagine. 34.7 metres to be exact.

[Bassic Lab]

Originally Posted by fusili

Why did you elevate the 17 SE line? That ROW is absolutely massive. You could fit 3 lanes of traffic plus the transit ROW there. Seems expensive and pointless.

EDIT: Note- 17 avene SE has a 7.3 metre road widening setback, on each side of the road from 27th to 50th street.

Notice all those access roads on the south side of 17th between 27th street and 36th? Those aren't private access roads, that is public ROW. 17th has more space than you could imagine. 34.7 metres to be exact.

And I would use all of that space. Something like 25' sidewalks, 10' parking lane, 25' for driving lanes each direction, and 15' reserved in the median for track supports. The parking lane would disappear at station and be taken up with platform supports, stairs to the platform (which would be located above the driving lanes), and perhaps an elevator if legislation requires it for handicap access.

It is elevated for a few of reasons. It allows the existing street grid to be maintained, it negates the huge number of lights, and it doesn't create a wall between the north side and the south side of 17 Ave. In surface operation it would need short consists because of the short blocks and the interaction with traffic in the intersections would always cause delays. Basically I see 36 St NE as a disaster for vehicle and pedestrian traffic. I am trying very hard to stay away from replicating it anywhere else in the city. With elevated operation, five car consists are possible, pedestrians are free to cross at every corner (and jaywalking is possible in the middle if not promoted), and trains can move rapidly along the entire corridor.

We're really not talking about that long of a stretch either, something like 2.5 kilometres of 17 Ave. East of 52 St SE the line would operate within the median. The portion from Crossroads station to 28 street SE would have to be elevated either way because there is no where else to put it. That is why there are plans for a busway.

Elevated is not that much more expensive than a surface ROW. Older figures for other cities that I've seen put a surface route at about 10 million dollars per kilometre, an elevated route at about 20 million dollars per kilometre, and tunnelled at anywhere north of 100 million dollars per kilometre. Prices would surely be higher in Calgary today, due to inflation and the local wage rate, but still roughly comparable. The elevated portion of the W LRT did not really break the bank. I really think that my figure of a billion dollars would be realistic for the entire line from Erlton to just past 68 St SE. Most of that expense would be made up from the subway station at Erlton, the maintenance and storage facility, the LRV purchase, and street scape improvements along 17 Ave SE. Elevating it above 17 Ave SE would be really minor.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by Bassic Lab

And I would use all of that space. Something like 25' sidewalks, 10' parking lane, 25' for driving lanes each direction, and 15' reserved in the median for track supports. The parking lane would disappear at station and be taken up with platform supports, stairs to the platform (which would be located above the driving lanes), and perhaps an elevator if legislation requires it for handicap access.

It is elevated for a few of reasons. It allows the existing street grid to be maintained, it negates the huge number of lights, and it doesn't create a wall between the north side and the south side of 17 Ave. In surface operation it would need short consists because of the short blocks and the interaction with traffic in the intersections would always cause delays. Basically I see 36 St NE as a disaster for vehicle and pedestrian traffic. I am trying very hard to stay away from replicating it anywhere else in the city. With elevated operation, five car consists are possible, pedestrians are free to cross at every corner (and jaywalking is possible in the middle if not promoted), and trains can move rapidly along the entire corridor.

To accommodate the median ROW on 17th, most through intersections would be removed and access would be limited to right-in right-out only intersections (which is good anyways, because it concentrates left turn movements onto fewer streets). This would be about every 4-6 blocks. The Transit ROW would be bordered on either side by a small median, that would serve as stations as well. Pedestrian crossings would be at regular intersections and "gasp", pedestrians would be able to cross the transit ROW at these intersections. Seems to work well in a lot of other places.


And 25' for sidewalks is nice, but a bit excessive. Wouldn't 15' do just as well?

[Ramsayfarian]

Sounds like there's another c-train accident downtown. Not sure if it is a pedestrian or a car.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by Ramsayfarian

Sounds like there's another c-train accident downtown. Not sure if it is a pedestrian or a car.

I heard pedestrian vs. train and probable fatality.

Downtown CTrain delays due to accident. Please use shuttles (Rte 551) on 6 & 9 Ave. Unknown how long delay will be. #yyc #yyctransit

From Calgary Transit twitter.

[frinkprof]

More news:

He was pinned under the train and fire crews used lifts to raise the train and pull him out.
He's been rushed to hospital with serious injuries.

http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/C...RT_crash_110204/20110204?hub=CalgaryHome

[Bassic Lab]

Originally Posted by fusili

To accommodate the median ROW on 17th, most through intersections would be removed and access would be limited to right-in right-out only intersections (which is good anyways, because it concentrates left turn movements onto fewer streets). This would be about every 4-6 blocks. The Transit ROW would be bordered on either side by a small median, that would serve as stations as well. Pedestrian crossings would be at regular intersections and "gasp", pedestrians would be able to cross the transit ROW at these intersections. Seems to work well in a lot of other places.


And 25' for sidewalks is nice, but a bit excessive. Wouldn't 15' do just as well?

Well 25' would allow light to still penetrate despite the elevated rail and 4+ story street wall. The room could be used for patios, benches, and what not. The idea being to make the area really attractive for development.

If there is a through street only every 4-6 blocks then it starts to look a lot like 36 St NE. There would still be a lot of interaction with vehicle traffic which always has the ability to screw things up. That and I would prefer to avoid the kind of circuitous routes that it would cause. I am not sure if you mean that there would still be crosswalks on every block or not. If there are I could see traffic issues arising. If there are not, well, making people walk six blocks to cross a street is a horrible way promote pedestrian activity. I want 17 Ave to be even more permeable than it currently is instead of less. We already have a proper street grid in the area, we might as well get the benefits of it.

Great separation is simply always better. If we can do it without causing problems we should. 17 Ave SE has a wide enough ROW to ensure that shadowing should not be a concern. Cost can obviously be a problem, which is why we didn't build a subway system, but if the difference is negligible than why not go for it? Have we seen a breakdown of costs on the W LRT? That would give us some idea of the kind of money we are talking about for both elevated and tunnelled sections. If the difference is something like 50-100 million then it is worth it. We are no longer building a system on speculation that may or may not be worth it, like in the eighties. We know that public transit works in Calgary. The West LRT has shown that we are now prepared to spend some extra money to end up with a better system. So now we will have stretches of elevated and buried rail.

[The Avid Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

Federal funds don't work like that. You get what you are allocated, as long as you apply for all you are due.

Wasn't always that way, but has been since the government started spending money again during later Chretien.

In any case, in Alberta so much is spent on infrastructure most projects don't get the 1/3rd federal contribution at all. Much different situation than in the lower mainland.

fair point - I'm an engineer not a policy guy - but do you think that takes away from the efficiencies of re-using a TBM? do you think these benefits pale in significance to many logistical conveniences with being able to re-use a TBM (provided you can secure funds for one)? If only for the sake of a thorough debate.

all said, I think Calgary is an ideal candidate for a Curritiba or Bogota style BRT system because to many of the ROW's are so wide.

My comments with regard to TBMing the proposed Westbrook to Currie route is a LONG LONG way off, but interesting to discuss with people of varied backgrounds none-the-less

[frinkprof]

The guy ended up living.

Middle-aged man escapes C-Train collision with stitches


By Stephane Massinon And Jason Markusoff

Calgary Herald February 5, 2011 8:14 AM


A man pinned underneath a C-Train car and taken to hospital in life-threatening condition was released hours later after receiving stitches to his head.

The pedestrian was seen running on 7th Avenue around 3 p.m. Friday near the Centre Street and Olympic Plaza platforms.

"At least one peace officer tried to assist the man, who appeared to be intoxicated," said Calgary Transit spokesman Ron Collins. "But it was too late and he fell between two cars."

Police confirmed alcohol was a factor in the incident, which snarled traffic and halted train service downtown for several hours.

The pedestrian was trapped under the train's middle car, said fire department spokesman Brian McAsey.

Fire crews used pneumatic lift bags to raise the train car a few inches.

[...]

Link to rest of the article

[freeweed]

Released a couple of hours with a few stitches. Sounds like incredibly minor injures, considering the reports of "taken to hospital with serious injuries".

Ah well, let's shut the LRT down for another couple of hours during rush hour, what can it hurt? Thankfully when it's not -25 outside, walking a dozen blocks to the end of 7th Ave isn't that bad.

[bookermorgan]

Yay, another Car vs. C-Train @ 4th Ave. and 9th St. SW

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by bookermorgan

Yay, another Car vs. C-Train @ 4th Ave. and 9th St. SW

Yeah, this is getting pretty tiresome. Fortunately the car (SUV, actually) was off the tracks within an hour, so the service disruption wasn't quite as bad as in the recent past.

Apparently the SUV ran into the side of the train, so someone clearly needs to lose their license. Flashing lights, bells, a gate arm, and a huge melonfarming train in the way.

[fusili]

Frink, YNAT and I had a little bit of discussion on twitter about this and I would like to give some more detail to the idea of a supplementary fare for any future transit to the airport. Several cities I have been to do this, including Barcelona (uses the Renfe Rodalies system rather than the TMB metro system, but the fares are coordinated. The airport is about a euro more than a typical fare), San Fran (the BART uses a distance based fare, so the airport fits into the system) and Madrid. Madrid I think has the system that we can emulate. When you go to the airport, or from the airport, you have to pay a supplementary fee. When you get to the airport, you have to pass through a gate, and to do so, you need to insert your supplementary fee token. You can buy it at any metro station or if you forget it, you can buy it when you arrive at the airport station (credit, debit or cash of course). You only need to insert the supplementary fee when you enter the airport, not the full fare (which you would have had to pay to get onto the metro at your origin station). When you depart from the airport you have to pay both the regular fare, and the supplementary fare.

The same system could easily work for any future Calgary Airport transit. The transit station will simply have fare gates set up where you have to insert a supplementary fee token to pass through. You will have to do this both to enter the airport and leave the airport by transit. It will be easy to integrate with our current fare system, because only the airport will require the supplementary fee, and it is controlled by a gate. And the fee can be paid at the airport station itself.

This could serve as a capital cost recovery mechanism for any transit trips to the airport.

Thoughts?

[jeffwhit]

^^ great idea, and easy to implement.