Calgary Public Transit II

[Policy Wonk]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

Really? Where did you hear this? sounds far fetched, but it would be pretty cool if it was true and also probably bring the cost down.

I believe it was Dr. Donna Bloomfield, one of my university professors who had probably been dead for a decade or more.

[freeweed]

I don't know if this is more LRT or Ring Road, so it goes here.

The median of Crowchild just west of Crowfoot station got some work done during our recent heat wave. Just some staking out and possibly grading but of course it's all under snow right now so I'm not sure. They've moved the construction speed zone slightly east to compensate - I imagine this means some pretty serious work will be underway this spring/summer.

Would the plan be to finish trackbed and track this summer so that Stoney can finally be opened at its final speed this year? Or will this just be a bit of prep work until budgets open up in 2012 or so to finally fund the extension to Tuscany? Resulting in even more construction zones for years to come?

[mersar]

I think all that is budgeted for this year is more utility work like what was going on last fall between Crowfoot station and Stoney. The LRT construction shouldn't have much impact if any on Stoney, I seem to recall this came up at an open house and someone (can't recall if it was a city or province person) indicated they believed that Stoney would be able to go to full speed even while construction was happening on the bridges above as theres essentially no interaction between crews on the finished bridges and the road below.

[frinkprof]

A couple news stories.

Restoring old LRT cars could save Calgary millions


By Richard Cuthbertson, Calgary Herald January 31, 2011 8:00 AM

CALGARY — As the city debates how the initial instalment of provincial transit cash will be spent, a new option is being floated that might salvage a significant number of LRT vehicles heading for retirement, leaving a larger pot of money to develop southeast transit.

Last week, Bombardier Transportation met with a number of council members, and two aldermen say the company pitched the idea of refurbishing old LRT vehicles that are ending their service years.

If the option does prove worthwhile, it could add 15 years to the life of the aging Siemens U2 vehicles, and cost a fraction of the price to purchase new cars.

Bombardier is currently refurbishing some of Edmonton’s LRT vehicles for about $1 million each, according to the two aldermen, although it is acknowledged Calgary cars are more corroded and have seen more use over the years.

Still, even if the cost is 50 per cent higher, it’s worth a close look, says Ald. Shane Keating.

It would be cheaper than buying new vehicles, which would last longer but cost $3.5 million or more.

If five or six vehicles were refurbished every year, the cost could be included in the city budget, allowing more Green Trip provincial transit funds to go to improving rapid transit in the southeast, said Keating.

[...]

Link to rest of the article

Free fare zone to be extended?

JEREMY NOLAIS
METRO CALGARY
Published: January 31, 2011 5:25 a.m.
Last modified: January 31, 2011 12:28 a.m.

As three Calgary aldermen push to extend the LRT free-fare zone one stop south to Victoria-Stampede station, some local businesses near the northwest line are asking for the same reprieve.

Removing fare requirements for Sunnyside station — the first stop after 7th Avenue on the northwest line — would provide added incentive for shoppers in the nearby Kensington district, said Jonathan Kane, owner of The Naked Leaf.

[...]

But Ald. Ray Jones, who is pitching the Victoria extension along with Alds. Andre Chabot and Diane Colley-Urquhart, said the proposal is meant to aid groups hosting events at the BMO Centre on the Stampede grounds.

[...]

Link to rest of the article

[Bassic Lab]

Will we not need the new cars either way? Unless the point of four car platforms is to maintain the same passenger capacity while running with longer headways, we will need to increase the fleet by 1/3 to roughly 200 cars. I really hope the idea isn't to just run the same number of cars in longer consists. It might help a little with labour costs and 7 Ave congestion but it would only make service worse by increasing the waiting time. That and it would do nothing for the sardine can conditions during the rush. Without more cars we are basically at the limit of what the south line can carry.

I would also worry about reliability. Pushing the vehicles' lifespans beyond what can be expected could lead to more frequent breakdowns and service disruptions. If that is not an issue and, more importantly, we are not short sightedly wasting money by spending half the cost of new cars on a third of the life span then we might as well go for it. Might as well get as much use out of them as possible.

[DizzyEdge]

My impression was the 50 cars that were going to be purchased was to handle using 4 cars, but also to replace old existing cars. This idea of refurbing would make the East-side alderman's idea of only buying.. 30? cars work out a bit better.

[Policy Wonk]

Back in 1996 I had CT guys telling me they had a list of U2's they wanted to scrap at the earliest opportunity.

[mersar]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

My impression was the 50 cars that were going to be purchased was to handle using 4 cars, but also to replace old existing cars. This idea of refurbing would make the East-side alderman's idea of only buying.. 30? cars work out a bit better.

Correct. The original plan was 50 including replacement of 20 U2's, but the recommendation from LPT to council changed to just 30 with no replacements from my understanding. So this would work perfectly with that proposal.


As for the fare-free zone issue, I think its a case of council really needing to get some numbers first. The story I read the other day about it was framed in the perspective of extending it to Vic Park just to entice conventions because the councilors pushing it currently thought that forcing each person to pay individually as a burden. This of course ignores the convention pass program that CT already runs, so in the process of changing this council could actually be drastically losing CT revenue its already getting from the general public, as well as what the conventions may already be paying, just so the conventions save a few dollars. And the lose of revenue could be into the millions according to one projection.

[Stang]

Originally Posted by mersar

As for the fare-free zone issue, I think its a case of council really needing to get some numbers first. The story I read the other day about it was framed in the perspective of extending it to Vic Park just to entice conventions because the councilors pushing it currently thought that forcing each person to pay individually as a burden. This of course ignores the convention pass program that CT already runs, so in the process of changing this council could actually be drastically losing CT revenue its already getting from the general public, as well as what the conventions may already be paying, just so the conventions save a few dollars. And the lose of revenue could be into the millions according to one projection.

I agree, it would be good to see some numbers. I don't know how they figure it will cost millions, however. The vast majority of revenue trips are either from or to the downtown core, and those will still be full-fare trips. I'm not sure that many people actually drop $5.00 to go to from downtown to the Stampede grounds and back.

I think that it would generate new trips (conferences, hockey games, events, etc.) but it wouldn't necessary cannibalize existing trips much as there isn't much of an incentive or value in going from downtown to the Stampede. You're either already on the train before the free-fare zone, or you've boarded in the free-fare zone to go to a hockey game, but if it wasn't free, you'd probably just walk from City Hall station.

[MalcolmTucker]

^ Well, back when my father had a parking spot downtown supplied by his employer, members of the family at various times would drive down then C-train to the stampede grounds in total maybe 15 times a year (Stampede itself, car-show, home and garden, hockey).

I'd imagine a reasonable portion of season ticket holders would be in a similar boat, plus the same for other casual users such as my family.

Add it up and you have a big hole methinks. I wonder how much it would really 'cost' to just make LRT free for registered convention goers? The marginal cost outside of rush hour would be minimal. Maybe set up a way for people to get passes before hand?

[mersar]

I'd think the cost would be pretty little. The current "Show'n'Go" pass is $6/day/participant, and even if there are 20,000 participant days a year currently that pay for the passes (which is a completely pulled from the air number), thats only foregoing $120,000 making those passes free and you make it more enticing to conferences to boot. And realistically, $6/day is a small part of the fees many of those conventions charge.

Making it part of the fare-free zone would have greater implications, you'd have a huge surge in the fare evasion after flames games and during stampede, which is probably where I figure the $2M figure comes from.

[Cage]

Agree with Mersar but I think the number of participants is too low. Global Petroleum Show (and is off year cousin) have in excess of 100,000 participants.

I really doubt Ald Jone Colley/Urquart etal are really in it for the conferences. This issue has come up before (extended free fare zone to Victoria Park Stampede) with regard to the Stampede Station development.

In my opinion this free fare zone extension should be killed. If the Aldermen are really concerned about convention traffic, then show and go costs could be reduced or eliminated. If Stampede Station gets it extension, then someone is going to make the case for Erlton/Stampede to be included. The afore mentioned Kensington folk will want Sunnyside included. Then we wait 2 years before people and businesses around the Sunalta station want their kick at the feline.

[Cage]

I am a firm believer that show and go costs should be included in the cost of all BMO Center, Corrall, and Saddledome events. This way if someon wants to bring their car, they are paying twice (once for transit and again for parking) to take the car. Also make taking transit much cheaper option and provide clear predictable funding for CT to put on extra transit.

It would be one step closer to the dream of there being no parking for Stampede events. I was very impressed by Melbourne Australia during my visits there a few years ago. 100,000 seat Melbourne Cricket Club with no real parking option available to the masses. Everyone exits out of the main gates and heads for Flinders station. Trains waiting to take people home or there is the CBD entertainment district nearby.

[kw5150]

How about free downtown...........50 cents to stampede and Kensington.............and the regular rate everywhere beyond?

What they should really focus on is making it easier to pay for a ticket. Those slow machines that dont provide change are archaic and embarrassing.

I really love our transit system and the free fare zone (that I use everyday) is amazing. I would even pay a little just to use it. I actually wish that i could donate more to transit. Maybe I will buy a ticket just for the hell of it today!

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by kw5150

How about free downtown...........50 cents to stampede and Kensington.............and the regular rate everywhere beyond?

Discrete zone system? No thanks.

Originally Posted by kw5150

What they should really focus on is making it easier to pay for a ticket. Those slow machines that dont provide change are archaic and embarrassing.

Less than two years away.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

Back in 1996 I had CT guys telling me they had a list of U2's they wanted to scrap at the earliest opportunity.

That doesn't surprise me. Apparently the backlog for maintenance was pretty big during the boom years and included many U2s, some SD160s. Lots of buses too of course. Even now that they've caught up quite a bit, many U2s are used sparingly, for training and testing purposes only or not at all.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by kw5150

I actually wish that i could donate more to transit. Maybe I will buy a ticket just for the hell of it today!

We need more people like yourself. So many people focus on "what do I HAVE to contribute" to society rather than the *should*.

[UofC.engineer]

I saw some sections of Southland station fenced off today! There was a PCL trailer in the parking lot. Hopefully this station gets renovated to accomodate 4-car trains

[srperrycgy]

Originally Posted by kw5150

Those slow machines that dont provide change are archaic and embarrassing.

A slow ticket machine makes you embarassed? Ummm....ok.

It's just a machine.

[UofC.engineer]

Shanghai built 424.8 km of metro in 15 years...it gonna take Calgary 5 years(09-14) to upgrade to 4 car platforms. Now thats embarassing.