NFL coming to Toronto - Page 7

O-tacular · #**121** Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 8:51 PM**

So while our mayor Nenshi is trying to tackle things like an airport tunnel, future SELRT and TOD's Toronto's mayor has nothing more pressing to deal with than attracting an NFL franchise?

Seriously, what are Ford's plans and qualifications anyways?

The_Architect · #**122** Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 8:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highinthesky

Americans are just crazy about their sports and I think its great. Then again some take it too far like the guy in Chicago who fired one of his salesmen because he wore a Packers tie to work on Monday haha

Is that even legal? Doesn't your boss actually need a reason to fire you, not just because they take a sport too seriously?

shreddog · #**123** Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 9:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highinthesky

Uhhh no it didn't. This is what it said.

I realise it appeared that you were being ganged up on, so here are the quotes where it appears that you are implying that a Toronto based NFL team would draw fans from outside the GTA like the Jays and Raptors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highinthesky

Quote:

Originally Posted by shreddog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highinthesky

You're right, there is no other football information avaiable on which to base a decision but you did mention two other alternative thats could be used to see how a team might do, the Blue Jays and Raptors. Both being the only teams in a professional league not in the United States and drawing from a fan base of not only the city they play in but an entire country.

Really????

While I haven't polled the entire country, I certainly have not seen rabid fan support for either the Jays or the Raptors outside of Southern Ontario. Certainly nothing that overshadowed other NBA/MBL teams.

I'd be interested in seeing retail and television stats to back that claim up.

What the hell does a rabid fan base have to do with it? The Blue Jays and Raptors are the only teams from their leagues in Canada. An NFL team in Toronto would be the only NFL team in Canada so how would using Jays and Raptors interest across Canada not be appropriate when trying to determine the same thing for an NFL team?

While Acajack is correct that there are Jay's and Raptor's fans in Ottawa (and elsewhere in the ROC) I suggest that they are no more common - and perhaps less so - than other team fans. Neither the Jays nor the Raptors are "Canada's team" much to the chagrin of the media when either of those two teams are on tv. And it will be the same for the NFL.

Football fans in Canada already have their allegience to an NFL team and that won't change if the NFL comes to TO. Yes there may be new fans in the GTA, but outside of that, I don't think so. (BTW, I'm a born and bred Torontonian, so this is not a grudge thing).

The truth is that IMHO an NFL team in Toronto will not significantly increase NFL tv revenues in Canada nor NFL product sales. Not sure if you read the link I posted 2 pages back. If not, do so and consider that if a Toronto based team without heavy government subsidies would not increase either TV or product revenue, why would the NFL even consider it?

Highinthesky · #**124** Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 9:05 PM**

I think you missed the whole point of what I was saying which is the Jays and Raptors would be appropriate comparisons to gauge the interest across Canada of an NFL team in Canada because they are both the only teams from their leagues in Canada. I did not comment on how much actual interest there is across Canada in either the Jays or Raptors.

isaidso · #**125** Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 9:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Architect

Toronto deserves its storied franchise just as much, if not more than Montreal deserves the Als.

The Argos were dead last in attendance yet Toronto's by far the biggest city.

VANRIDERFAN · #**126** Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 9:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highinthesky

I think you missed the whole point of what I was saying which is the Jays and Raptors would be appropriate comparisons to gauge the interest across Canada of an NFL team in Canada because they are both the only teams from their leagues in Canada. I did not comment on how much actual interest there is across Canada in either the Jays or Raptors.

Then by that criteria there is not enough interest across Canada for an NFL team since Jays intrest is low and Raptors is in pee wee cricket territory.

Bdog · #**127** Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 9:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by yaletown_fella

Toronto's problem is it always gets clowns managing the team.
It''s kind of petty to bash the people who work to keep half the country afloat through equalization, no?
Toronto isn't alone in this respect. Look at the NBA attendance in Atlanta.
If you got rid of salary cap in major league sports both Toronto and Atlanta would be selling out stadiums and winning 2x as much.

What is this post even about? lol

mr.John · #**128** Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 9:43 PM**

Since a good 20% of NFL players have serious criminal records how will these bums be allowed into the country if Toronto gets an NFL team? anyone hear of Ben "the rapist" Roethlisberger or Michael "the dog trainer" Vick or maybe Ray "manslaughter "Lewis

shreddog · #**129** Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 9:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highinthesky

... the Jays and Raptors would be appropriate comparisons to gauge the interest across Canada of an NFL team in Canada because they are both the only teams from their leagues in Canada ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

Then by that criteria there is not enough interest across Canada for an NFL team since Jays intrest is low and Raptors is in pee wee cricket territory.

x100

MrOilers · #**130** Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 9:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SHOFEAR

People across the country could probably understand or quickly forget about the feds dishing out some coin for arenas or CFL stadiums...but a billion dollar NFL stadium...

Great point.

I bet most Canadians (myself included) would be perfectly content with the feds dishing out some money for new stadiums in Quebec City, Hamilton, and Moncton for CFL teams. Hell, I bet the CFL has done more for this country's national identity and unity than the NHL has, despite hockey being our #1 sport, and most people recognize that.

But spending federal money on a new "center-of-the-universe" stadium so the NFL can leech money out of Canada to subsidize their millionaire American football players?

GTFO

Highinthesky · #**131** Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 9:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Architect

Is that even legal? Doesn't your boss actually need a reason to fire you, not just because they take a sport too seriously?

All I know about it
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/nfl/01/25/packers-fan-fired.ap/index.html?eref=sihp

Mister F · #**132** Posted **Jan 26, 2011, 2:36 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highinthesky

CFL has been used over time and to this day as a stepping stone for many players trying to reach the NFL and to be brutally honest the rest of the players in the CFL just wouldn't make it in the NFL. That is what makes comparing the CFL to the NFL more similar to comparing the Moose to what an NHL team would do in Winnipeg than comparing the CFL to the NFL on par.

The difference in talent level is hugely exaggerated and in a lot of cases not true. The AHL analogy doesn't hold up because the AHL is basically identical to the NHL game. The CFL and NFL are completely different games in a lot of ways - skillsets that work in one don't always work in the other. The NFL is very structured, every player must fit a defined role. OTOH, the CFL with its bigger field and fewer downs forces more creativity and less rigidity. It also doesn't reward size as much. Many of the giants on NFL defensive lines would never make it in the CFL. And there are lots of CFLers who are just as good as NFLers, but if they don't fit predefined roles they don't make it.

Obviously most CFL players would be NFL starters if they could, and all things being equal the talent is higher in the NFL. But all things aren't equal, and there are a lot of CFL players who are the best in the world at what they do.

The_Architect · #**133** Posted **Jan 26, 2011, 2:54 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso

The Argos were dead last in attendance yet Toronto's by far the biggest city.

And have yet to have a professional team fold..

Toros don't count the WHA was doomed anyways.

BretttheRiderFan · #**134** Posted **Jan 26, 2011, 3:46 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso

The Argos were dead last in attendance yet Toronto's by far the biggest city.

Well considering the Argos missed the playoffs for 2 years before last year, while the Alouettes continued to dominate, it's not much of a surprise

Oh, and before 2010, the last time Montreal had higher average attendance than Toronto was 2003

Bdog · #**135** Posted **Jan 26, 2011, 4:18 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BretttheRiderFan

Oh, and before 2010, the last time Montreal had higher average attendance than Toronto was 2003

Interestingly enough, Toronto's stadium is over twice the size of Montreal's...

The_Architect · #**136** Posted **Jan 26, 2011, 4:35 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bdog

Interestingly enough, Toronto's stadium is over twice the size of Montreal's...

How did Montreal do in "the big owe" again?

BretttheRiderFan · #**137** Posted **Jan 26, 2011, 8:41 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bdog

Interestingly enough, Toronto's stadium is over twice the size of Montreal's...

(As I find myself in the awkward position of defending Toronto)

Gerrard · #**138** Posted **Jan 26, 2011, 3:15 PM**

I see a lot of jealousy on this thread, otherwise for the life of me I can't understand why people in the ROC would care if Toronto got an NFL team or not.

As many of you have stated, the Argos aren't a big draw in Toronto, so if that team were to fold it wouldn't mean the end of the CFL in Canada, ergo you shouldn't really care or not what teams play in Toronto.

Anyway the argument is moot since the whole idea isn't going to happen -it's a wish of the mayor not of the people and though the size of the market is too huge for the NHL to ignore (much as L.A.'s is), no one is rushing to put a team in L.A. -so the NFL isn't necessarily making expansion a priority.

And in the end, it's a novelty. We can already gamble on the games so actually having a team isn't as important.

Jets4Life · #**139** Posted **Jan 26, 2011, 3:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by shreddog

I realise it appeared that you were being ganged up on, so here are the quotes where it appears that you are implying that a Toronto based NFL team would draw fans from outside the GTA like the Jays and Raptors.

While Acajack is correct that there are Jay's and Raptor's fans in Ottawa (and elsewhere in the ROC) I suggest that they are no more common - and perhaps less so - than other team fans. Neither the Jays nor the Raptors are "Canada's team" much to the chagrin of the media when either of those two teams are on tv. And it will be the same for the NFL.

Football fans in Canada already have their allegience to an NFL team and that won't change if the NFL comes to TO. Yes there may be new fans in the GTA, but outside of that, I don't think so. (BTW, I'm a born and bred Torontonian, so this is not a grudge thing).

The truth is that IMHO an NFL team in Toronto will not significantly increase NFL tv revenues in Canada nor NFL product sales. Not sure if you read the link I posted 2 pages back. If not, do so and consider that if a Toronto based team without heavy government subsidies would not increase either TV or product revenue, why would the NFL even consider it?

You are bang on, in that regard. If Toronto were to get an NFL team, I would still cheer for the Vikings. Just like the many Vancouverites would cheer for the Seahawks. As for Basketball, I don't really care for it too much, but I do love the Celtics. For baseball, I cheer for the Cubs and Red Sox.

Of course, when the Jays were a powerhouse in the 80's and early 90's, I cheered for them. But realistically, most from outside southern Ontario hopped off the bandwagon years ago.

Bdog · #**140** Posted **Jan 26, 2011, 5:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Architect

How did Montreal do in "the big owe" again?

I was refering to the post that stated that Toronto beat out Montreal in attendance most years (which seemed to imply that Toronto had more fan support). Obviously most teams with stadium's holding more than 20k (which monteal's did until last year) are going to average more than the Al's did, but that says nothing about fan support...