[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[sdm]

Originally Posted by Grav

Some higher end stores would be great downtown. It would be "big box" but without the "box" part or that tacky "lifestyle" architecture. I still think they should give the Bell Aliant call center in Scotia Square the boot and turn that back into retail space. There is alot more room there than any of the smaller older buildings on Barrington could offer. Maybe convert the old WTCC into retail space too. I think the old WTCC with all of its brick and brass would make a great high end 1970's looking shopping mall.

Barrington Street has always, in my opinion, been a location that could be done like St Catherines Street in Downtown Montreal.

[worldlyhaligonian]

My question is... where are all the luxury retailers? Halifax can definitely support more of them.

If people are willing to pay the rediculous mark-up on stuff at Mills, they would definitely pay the retail price directly from a Hugo Boss or a Lacoste store downtown.

Relating back to the Nova Centre... it will definitely help retail on Barrington. The death of Barrington and downtown has been primarily due to people (even those who live downtown) going to Bayers Lake and more recently DC.

The opponents of the Nova Centre think that it will ruin the charm and character of Argyle... when I bet it will add alot more revenue volume for these unique restaurants, bars, and clothing stores across all of downtown. People at a convention or trade show will not be willing to go to BL or DC given the time constraints of their visit.

[someone123]

Ste-Catherine in Montreal has a bunch of advantages. It's served by a subway system, there's way more intense development nearby (residential and office), and there's less to cut it off from the rest of the city.

Right now it's hard to attract people to Barrington from other areas and the local population isn't high enough. That is only going to change with United Gulf-style projects with hundreds of new residential units.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

My question is... where are all the luxury retailers? Halifax can definitely support more of them.

If people are willing to pay the rediculous mark-up on stuff at Mills, they would definitely pay the retail price directly from a Hugo Boss or a Lacoste store downtown.

Relating back to the Nova Centre... it will definitely help retail on Barrington. The death of Barrington and downtown has been primarily due to people (even those who live downtown) going to Bayers Lake and more recently DC.

The opponents of the Nova Centre think that it will ruin the charm and character of Argyle... when I bet it will add alot more revenue volume for these unique restaurants, bars, and clothing stores across all of downtown. People at a convention or trade show will not be willing to go to BL or DC given the time constraints of their visit.

Personally, I had thought that if Nova Centre went ahead I'd like to see a high end retailer (or two) setup in the retail space. Having worked in the Aliant call centre for a couple years; of the few people I know still working there I would have to agree, they should be forced out - essentially it went from people stacked on top of each other, to empty. I remember when I walked on this special team that they just threw up into a mezzanine space off the upper Duke entrance. It was crazy - the problem is that for as long as BellAliant is going to pay the rent, they will stay. Plus I doubt that they would make any where near as much money, but that's just a guess.

As I have mentioned before, I would love to see the Eaton's space revert back to a shopping space for something like Holt and I think once a few projects go forward like Roy/Discover and Nova I could really see the desire to locate on Barrington Street. That or if a new commercial corridor were to spring up (like say improvements to Quinpool or Agricola) - I could see them locating there.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

As I have mentioned before, I would love to see the Eaton's space revert back to a shopping space for something like Holt and I think once a few projects go forward like Roy/Discover and Nova I could really see the desire to locate on Barrington Street. That or if a new commercial corridor were to spring up (like say improvements to Quinpool or Agricola) - I could see them locating there.

It's a great retail site (Discovery Centre could be as well) and it would be easy to imagine a world where this would be an extremely desirable area. Realistically however my guess is that it will remain an underused provincial building for a long time.

Unfortunately government ownership has been a pretty negative force in downtown Halifax. Many vacant lots are owned by some level of government and efforts to develop are extremely slow and poorly-managed (mentioned in this report by Turner Drake for example).

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by someone123

It's a great retail site (Discovery Centre could be as well) and it would be easy to imagine a world where this would be an extremely desirable area. Realistically however my guess is that it will remain an underused provincial building for a long time.

Unfortunately government ownership has been a pretty negative force in downtown Halifax. Many vacant lots are owned by some level of government and efforts to develop are extremely slow and poorly-managed (mentioned in this report by Turner Drake for example).

Wow, I was expecting the report to have a lot more in it.
But essentially they are correct - there would've been a lot more development if the City and Province had been more on the ball. At least if the sites were sold; they could've made some money and then taxed any new development.

I get the impression that government is very hesitant to give up ownership; unless they are absolutely sure of getting a return. But to me; we should adopt the more western philosophy - sell it and you will get a return.

[beyeas]

that report is interesting... but the over the top flowery language just makes me laugh. Sounds like it was written by someone who is trying to find an outlet for the MA in 19th century English lit that they did back in the 80s and then never used again until now.

The thing that I don't like about the report is that it doesn't address the question of "what if the by-laws and property tax regime were changed such that it made it less financially viable to build in the suburbs?". The report just assumes that the present rules are all that is possible and accepts as inevitable the fact that the downtown will hollow out to the suburbs. That is true in the current environment, but it misses the fact that what should happen is that the laws should be changed to dis-encourage office development sprawl.

[sdm]

Road money could build convention centre
Last Updated: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 | 7:10 PM AT Comments5Recommend7.
CBC News
An artist's rendering of what the new convenction centre in Halifax would look like. (CBC)
The Nova Scotia government has asked Ottawa to use money from a federal fund normally used to repair roads and bridges around the province to pay for its share of a new convention centre in downtown Halifax.

Federal Transport Minister Chuck Strahl has been asked to re-direct the portion of the Build Canada fund dedicated to Nova Scotia as the federal contribution to the proposed $159-million convention centre.

The deal depends on Ottawa contributing $47 million. That money has not been committed yet.

Transportation and Infrastructure Minister Bill Estabrooks said Wednesday that he sees no reason why the infrastructure funding couldn't be used to help pay for the new convention centre.

"A lot of it has ended up in my department through highways and bridges and various other things. In this case, it would be appropriate from my perspective as minister responsible for the convention centre. This would be a good use of public funds," he said .

"We haven't taken from Peter to rob Paul; that's not the approach here. But these are dollars that we believe the convention centre project could benefit from, and that's our advice."

The city and province have already agreed to put in $56 million each toward the convention centre, which would be built on the former Halifax Herald Ltd. site. The centre would be ready in January 2015.

Estabrooks said the province is still committed to its five-year plan for highway construction, although projects may not happen as quickly if some of the money is used to build the convention centre.

"Perhaps we won't see as quickly as possible when it comes to the five year plan but there are dollars to take care of our highway needs," he said.

There has been no response from the federal government to the proposal.


Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2011/01/19/ns-convention-centre-money.html#ixzz1BWrqAXkx

[DigitalNinja]

Why is CBC using old renders of the center?

[fenwick16]

This is another lopsided, deceitful story by the CBC. The following is a quote directly from the federal government's website describing one purpose of the Building Canada Fund:

(source: http://www.buildingcanada-chantierscanada.gc.ca/plandocs/bg-di/bg-di-info5-eng.html )

Tourism

Building Canada funding in this category will be directed towards the construction or improvement of convention centres or exhibition hall-type facilities that:

* Increase the number of visitors to the community, and the length and quality of stay of those visitors;

* Promote Canada or the region as a leading destination for Canadian and international visitors.

Funding criteria will require that proponents of convention centre or exhibition-hall type projects demonstrate that their projects will have a significant economic and/or regional impact.

If CBC is truly a news organization then they should be providing accurate truthful reports.

PS: I posted this comment on the CBC story comments section so time ago but it seems as though they only post negative comments. What kind of organization is the CBC becoming? It reminds me of the Fox network in the US and how they lopsidedly support the Republicans.

[sdm]

Province Doesn't Speak for Feds on Convention Centre: MacKay
by: alexboutilier January 19, 2011 3:53 PM Metro News

I asked Defence Minister Peter MacKay this afternoon whether or not the province was premature in characterizing the convention centre deal as a "not if, but when" situation.

His response, after he finished laughing and realized I was serious:


“The provincial government does not speak for the federal government when it comes to this file. I’ll put it that way.”

Maybe it's just me, but that does not sound like a yes. But it is also not technically a no. Politics!


Now, because I write predominantly on dead trees, I cannot elaborate too much more on the details of our conversation, or who Minister MacKay met with in Ottawa two weeks ago to discuss the more "granular" details of WTCC2's business case (it was Scott Ferguson, obvs).

But I can say that MacKay was overall optimistic about the project, while shying well away from sounding too optimistic.

He did say, however, that:

“We’re making progress and I should be able to make a decision on this well within the time-line.”

Which strikes me as a touch odd, since the money is not exactly coming from DND, and so one would assume it wouldn't be his decision to make.

Anyway, just doing my part to re-fan the flames of speculation. Check tomorrow's Metro Halifax for the full story tomorrow morning, and Politics as Usual tomorrow afternoon for our full interview.

http://www.metronews.ca/halifax/blog/pos...eak-for-feds-on-convention-centre-mackay

[halifaxboyns]

I have to say I'm really disappointed in the CBC today. Their reporting has been beyond horrible - I mean first their story on spirit place and now this. Can they not even use the most recent rendering of the proposal? Plus the slant they put on the argument, as Fenwick points out - they seem to have skipped the fact that the fund said - you can use it! I will say this; the actual news broadcast did use the more recent drawing - perhaps someone has been listening?

[Jstaleness]

From cbc.ca/ns

The Nova Scotia government has asked Ottawa to use money from a federal fund normally used to repair roads and bridges around the province to pay for its share of a new convention centre in downtown Halifax.

Federal Transport Minister Chuck Strahl has been asked to re-direct the portion of the Build Canada fund dedicated to Nova Scotia as the federal contribution to the proposed $159-million convention centre.

The deal depends on Ottawa contributing $47 million. That money has not been committed yet.

Transportation and Infrastructure Minister Bill Estabrooks said Wednesday that he sees no reason why the infrastructure funding couldn't be used to help pay for the new convention centre.

"A lot of it has ended up in my department through highways and bridges and various other things. In this case, it would be appropriate from my perspective as minister responsible for the convention centre. This would be a good use of public funds," he said .

"We haven't taken from Peter to rob Paul; that's not the approach here. But these are dollars that we believe the convention centre project could benefit from, and that's our advice."

The city and province have already agreed to put in $56 million each toward the convention centre, which would be built on the former Halifax Herald Ltd. site. The centre would be ready in January 2015.

Estabrooks said the province is still committed to its five-year plan for highway construction, although projects may not happen as quickly if some of the money is used to build the convention centre.

"Perhaps we won't see as quickly as possible when it comes to the five year plan but there are dollars to take care of our highway needs," he said.

There has been no response from the federal government to the proposal.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2011/01/19/ns-convention-centre-money.html#ixzz1BZi96AKc

[fenwick16]

It isn't really just road money. This was a false, malicious story by the CBC author. The Building Canada Fund may also be used to build convention centres - http://www.buildingcanada-chantierscanada.gc.ca/plandocs/bg-di/bg-di-info5-eng.html . The following is taken from that link:


(sources - http://www.buildingcanada-chantierscanada.gc.ca/plandocs/bg-di/bg-di-info5-eng.html )

Tourism

Building Canada funding in this category will be directed towards the construction or improvement of convention centres or exhibition hall-type facilities that:

* Increase the number of visitors to the community, and the length and quality of stay of those visitors;

* Promote Canada or the region as a leading destination for Canadian and international visitors.

Funding criteria will require that proponents of convention centre or exhibition-hall type projects demonstrate that their projects will have a significant economic and/or regional impact.

Personally, I feel disgusted by that story and all the people who posted comments supporting the story. The author and the people behind the numerous comments should be ashamed. I am sure that many were just fooled by the story, but I am sure that many of the comments were posted simply to stir up opposition.

[fenwick16]

I seriously believe that the HRM, province of Nova Scotia and Rank Inc. should consider suing both the author of the above story and the CBC for any resulting damages. If it helps sink the Nova Centre project then the losses could be in the millions of dollars.

[sdm]

Road cash could be diverted to convention centre

By DAVENE JEFFREY Staff Reporter
Thu, Jan 20 - 4:54 AM
Bill Estabrooks wants Ottawa to commit $47 million from the Build Canada Fund to pay its portion of Halifax’s new convention centre.

"There’s some remaining funds in the Build Canada Fund," Estabrooks, the transportation and infrastructure renewal minister, said in an interview Wednesday evening.

He wrote a letter last week to Chuck Strahl, the federal infrastructure minister, suggesting that Nova Scotia’s share of the fund could be used to help build the $159-million convention centre in the downtown.

"I suggested to him that this is one of the ways (he) could help us finance that convention centre," said Estabrooks. He said the fund has contributed to the twinning of Highway 104.

Although paying for the national highway system is a tenet of the Build Canada Fund, Estabrooks said none of the road and bridge work outlined in the government’s five-year plan would be threatened or delayed by using money from the fund for the convention centre.

The province and Halifax regional council have both committed to funding the project and last month formally asked Ottawa to kick in $47 million.

Estabrooks said he didn’t know how much money is sitting in the fund for Nova Scotia but believes there’s enough to cover all or most of Ottawa’s share of the centre.

"I believe the convention centre would be a good use for the funds," Estabrooks said.

So far, Estabrooks has not heard back from Strahl.

"It’s time for Ottawa to step up," said Liberal Leader Stephen McNeil. "(The project) is good for the entire province."

Last week, developer Rank Inc. agreed to lock in its price for building the convention centre for a bit longer. The province has said that Rank agreed to a 90-day extension. Rank spokesman Joe Ramia has confirmed an extension but has not specified how long he will hold the price.

The centre, which would be built on the old site of the Halifax Herald, is to be part of a $500-million complex that would include a hotel, retail space and office tower.

( [email protected])

[sdm]

Convention centre still at ‘if’ stage
MacKay met with TCL president Scott Ferguson this month Ferguson also took part in MacKay’s ‘economic consultation roundtable’ in Halifax yesterday

“We’re not the ones who are holding it up ... If the ask had come sooner, they probably could have had an answer sooner, if I can put it that way.”
– Defence Minister Peter MacKay ALEX BOUTILIER
METRO HALIFAX
Published: January 20, 2011 12:13 a.m.
Last modified: January 20, 2011 12:24 a.m.

The province may have been premature to characterize the convention centre deal as a “not if, but when” scenario.

Defence Minister Peter MacKay said yesterday a deal has not yet been struck and refused to speculate as to when or even if one will come.

“The provincial government does not speak for the federal government when it comes to this file,” MacKay said.

On Jan. 12, Infrastructure Renewal Minister Bill Estabrooks told Metro “there’s no more if to it — we’re going to have this announcement.”

The federal government has been asked to contribute $46 million up front to the proposed $159-million centre. The original deadline for an agreement between all three levels of government was Jan. 15, but developer Joe Ramia agreed to hold the price for an additional 90 days.

MacKay, the lone Nova Scotian in Stephen Harper’s cabinet, met with Trade Centre Limited president Scott Ferguson in Ottawa two weeks ago. According to MacKay, Ferguson delivered some of the more “granular” details of the business case for the proposed centre.

MacKay did not elaborate on what new information Ferguson presented, but said he passed the information along to Transportation Minister Chuck Strahl on Tuesday. Strahl is responsible for the Build Canada Fund — presumably where the federal government’s contribution will come from should it come on board.

“We’re making progress and I should be able to make a decision on this well within the timelines,” MacKay said.

More about Halifax Convention Centre

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by sdm

Road cash could be diverted to convention centre
By DAVENE JEFFREY Staff Reporter
Thu, Jan 20 - 4:54 AM
Bill Estabrooks wants Ottawa to commit $47 million from the Build Canada Fund to pay its portion of Halifax’s new convention centre.

"There’s some remaining funds in the Build Canada Fund," Estabrooks, the transportation and infrastructure renewal minister, said in an interview Wednesday evening.

He wrote a letter last week to Chuck Strahl, the federal infrastructure minister, suggesting that Nova Scotia’s share of the fund could be used to help build the $159-million convention centre in the downtown.

"I suggested to him that this is one of the ways (he) could help us finance that convention centre," said Estabrooks. He said the fund has contributed to the twinning of Highway 104.

Although paying for the national highway system is a tenet of the Build Canada Fund, Estabrooks said none of the road and bridge work outlined in the government’s five-year plan would be threatened or delayed by using money from the fund for the convention centre.
.
.
.
( [email protected])

First the CBC and now the Herald. Can't any of these organizations take the time to do a bit of research. Building roads is only one purpose of the Building Canada Fund. The following is taken from the federal website:

(source: http://www.buildingcanada-chantierscanad...ivret/booklet-livret06-eng.html#highways )

Tourism

Tourism and business travel are important parts of Canada's economy. They create jobs and provide foreign exchange and revenues. Tourism contributed more than $26 billion to the Canadian economy in 2005.15

The private sector plays a major role in tourism and meeting infrastructure as well as attractions across Canada. However, public sector investments can also play a role and Building Canada will focus on one such area: investments in convention centres and exhibition spaces. These facilities help strengthen the reputation of Canadian cities as world-class convention destinations, while contributing to Canada's brand and profile in the international community.

Building Canada encourages investments in infrastructure that can achieve significant economic and/or regional impacts through the construction or improvement of convention centres or exhibition hall-type facilities.

[JustinMacD]

I hate Tom Murphy on CBC. Just the way he talks about the Convention Centre...

Everything is in a negative tone: "Lots of people are very upset about using this money for the convention centre" etc.

Just STFU and report the news.

[JustinMacD]

Now they bring some guy on from the NS Road Builders Association for their main interview during the news.

Surprise, surprise the guy is against the plan and Tom Murphy keeps giving him softball questions to bash the government.

Now he's bitching about job loss from loss of road work (and naturally doesn't talk about the job increase with the CC).