America's Best Restaurant Cities: Esquire Magazine

[pesto]

A couple of thoughts: is there really any difference between NY, Chicago, SF and LA for food? I mean once you get a bunch of top level places, lots of ethnic and lots of experimentation, does it really matter if there are 80 great places or only 52; 8 Mexican regional cuisines or only 4? This is sort of like cleanliness: once you get to a certain point, cleaning more doesn't really improve anything. (LV is clearly thin in some areas and New Orleans I can't comment on.)

The ratings are quite subjective in any event. You can criticize a place serving "classical" cusine for any innovation it makes, even one that most would agree improves the food. A foodie friend in the SF area recently told me he could never go to a new "Tuscan" restaurant in the area again because they did not use proper Tuscan cups for the coffee. It's sort of like a dog show; you aren't finding the "best" dog, you are finding the one that meets a pre-existing model of what a certain type of dog "should" be like.

One strongly held belief: Mexican food in Europe is consistently terrible. By which I mean, not like Mexico or SoCal and certainly not better.

[relnahe]

Originally Posted by Chase Unperson

If Buffalo, Pittsburgh or Cincinnati were destroyed by a hurricane people would be briefly bummed but no one would really give a shit outside of people from there. If New Orleans was lost, it would be tragic to the whole country.

Most retarded thing I've read on here and I've suffered through all of Mike Toronto's posts.

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by relnahe

Most retarded thing I've read on here and I've suffered through all of Mike Toronto's posts.

I agree...I hate it when people profess to know what anyone else would "give a shit" about.

[Buckeye Native 001]

Originally Posted by relnahe

Most retarded thing I've read on here and I've suffered through all of Mike Toronto's posts.

Agreed. Chase's elitist bullshit grows tiresome, and it pops up in every thread he posts.

[Shasta]

DaMarco, Moon Tavern, Mark's, Pupusa Buffet, Tony's, Le Mistral, Kanomwan, Americas, Luling City Market, Jamaica House, Cafe Mawal, Ruggles, Vieng Thai, Masraff's, Rainbow Lodge, Cajun Made, Max's Wine Dive, Ouisie's Table, Tony Madola's Gulf Coast Kitchen, Emporia Brazilian Cafe, Quattro, Kubo's, Indika, Feast, Istanbul Grill, Broken Spoke Belgian Cafe, Churrascos, Abdallah's Bakery, Tiny Boxwoods, Bellaire Broiler Burger, Himalaya, The Blue Nile, Pico's, Glass Wall, Catalan, Shade, Lankford Grocery, Phoenicia, Breakfast Klub, Lemon Tree, The Barbed Rose, Oishi Sushi, Treebeards, Cleburne Cafeteria, Thelma's BBQ, Niko Niko's, Hugo's, Backstreet Cafe, Pappas Steakhouse, El Tiempo, Reef, Chuy's, Nino's, London Sizzler, Chez Nous, Ibiza, Queen Vic, Suya Hut, Vincent's, 17, Latin Bites, Grappino di Nino, Fung's Kitchen, Teotihucan, Kenny and Ziggy's NY Deli, Artista, Bombay Pizza Co, Richmond Arms, Toyama, Frenchy's Fried Chicken, Godo's, The Bull and Bear, etc...

Houston is an EXCELLENT PLACE to eat. Why do you think we're all so fat?

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by pesto

A couple of thoughts: is there really any difference between NY, Chicago, SF and LA for food? I mean once you get a bunch of top level places, lots of ethnic and lots of experimentation, does it really matter if there are 80 great places or only 52; 8 Mexican regional cuisines or only 4? This is sort of like cleanliness: once you get to a certain point, cleaning more doesn't really improve anything. (LV is clearly thin in some areas and New Orleans I can't comment on.)

Couldn't this be taken to absurd extremes? Is there any difference between LA and Dayton for food? I mean, they both have good restaurants, both fancy and ethnic, and the primary difference is the vast number in LA, right? I'm sure there's one or two places in Dayton for decent Thai; why would I need 300 places?

IMO, there are pretty obvious differences in food culture and quality between cities. Would you find Dominican food in NYC or LA? Is fresh farm-to-table produce more readily available in SF or Chicago? Are barbecue ribs better in Kansas City or Salt Lake?

Originally Posted by pesto

One strongly held belief: Mexican food in Europe is consistently terrible. By which I mean, not like Mexico or SoCal and certainly not better.

Mexican food appears to be terrible anywhere outside of Mexico and a few cities in the U.S. My (Mexican) wife has lived in Chile, Argentina and Spain, and you can't even find a real tortilla in these locations, to say nothing of Mexican food.

[pico44]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Couldn't this be taken to absurd extremes? Is there any difference between LA and Dayton for food? I mean, they both have good restaurants, both fancy and ethnic, and the primary difference is the vast number in LA, right? I'm sure there's one or two places in Dayton for decent Thai; why would I need 300 places?

IMO, there are pretty obvious differences in food culture and quality between cities. Would you find Dominican food in NYC or LA? Is fresh farm-to-table produce more readily available in SF or Chicago? Are barbecue ribs better in Kansas City or Salt Lake?


Mexican food appears to be terrible anywhere outside of Mexico and a few cities in the U.S. My (Mexican) wife has lived in Chile, Argentina and Spain, and you can't even find a real tortilla in these locations, to say nothing of Mexican food.

Exactly. It is my opinion that having a hundred superb Italian restaurants is 10 times better than having 10 superb Italian restaurants. Different chefs, different regions, different specialties with different ingredients. Perhaps it won't matter to someone who goes out for spaghetti with meatballs once or twice a year. But for sopmeone who dines out at Italian restaurants 15-20 times a year; you not only want serious quality, but serious variety as well.

You like lasagna? The hundred layer version at Del Posto is the best you will eat in your life. You like Italian seafood? Marea might is the best Ive ever had, Italy included. Pasta? Convivio has made it an artform. Traditional American Italian? Prepare to have your mind blown at Torrisi. You're homesick for Spiagga? Missy Robbins now works at the Time Warner Center. Northern Italian? Alto might be the best Italian restaurant in the US. Wanna dine with the muscle heads from the Shore? l'Incontro in Queens is as cheesy as the food is incredible. Cheap? Gennaro on the UWS is an incredible deal if you don't mind waiting for a table. Al di la, Babbo.... The list goes on. And I am thankful for every single one of them. And I'm thankful for the fact that there 20 others I plan to visit.



PS Crawford: Where do you go for Mexican? I've got a couple places I love but am always looking for other recs.

[Gordo]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Mexican food appears to be terrible anywhere outside of Mexico and a few cities in the U.S. My (Mexican) wife has lived in Chile, Argentina and Spain, and you can't even find a real tortilla in these locations, to say nothing of Mexican food.

Mexican food is nonexistent or terrible all over South America, and typically awful everywhere in Europe too (though I have had a couple decent Mexican meals in Spain).

However, I think that you can find good (maybe not always great) Mexican food almost anywhere in the US now - the folks saying that good Mexican is confined to southern California or Mexico itself are crazy. Some of the best street tacos that I've ever had were from a taco truck in Aspen last year. I've eaten some great high-end Mexican in Seattle and Atlanta. One of my favorite Mexican restaurants anywhere is in a small town in southeastern Idaho (started by the wives of migrant laborers picking potatoes and harvesting barley). And that's before we even talk about the massive amounts of good stuff available anywhere in California or other immigrant hot spots.

[Kingofthehill]

LOL, Mexican food outside of California/the West/Southwest.

[SD_Phil]

Agree with Gordo. Wherever you have a critical mass of mexican immigrants (or mexican americans) you should be able to find decent mexican food. If an enclave of mexicans exists then you should be able to find really good mexican food from several different regions in mexico. I think most major metro areas in the us, at least along the southwest, parts of the south, and other major metros (NY, Chicago, etc) have good mex food.

[599GTO]

....

Originally Posted by pesto

A couple of thoughts: is there really any difference between NY, Chicago, SF and LA for food? .

Yes.

[Chase Unperson]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001

Agreed. Chase's elitist bullshit grows tiresome, and it pops up in every thread he posts.

No I am just calling it like it is. If Al Qaeda flies two planes into two buildings in Cincinnati, Colorado Springs, Cleveland, Omaha, or Sacramento it makes the news for a few days, but if it happens in NYC it is an internationally devastating, grief-spawning event that is remembered and memorialized for decades.

C'mon certainly you must realize that.

[Chase Unperson]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

Philadelphia's a city whose culinary heritage is steeped in tradition, particularly the Pennsylvania Dutch and Italian-American traditions, but the new wave of Philadelphia restaurants (led, apparently, by the two most famous chefs you have never heard of) is led by some very interesting Latin American-Asian fusion restaurants. Shovel this on top of the deep culinary heritage Philadelphia already boasts and you get what is obviously the most underrated cuisine city in America.

Latin American-Asian fusion is so totally West Coast.

[Buckeye Native 001]

Originally Posted by Chase Unperson

No I am just calling it like it is. If Al Qaeda flies two planes into two buildings in Cincinnati, Colorado Springs, Cleveland, Omaha, or Sacramento it makes the news for a few days, but if it happens in NYC it is an internationally devastating, grief-spawning event that is remembered and memorialized for decades.

C'mon certainly you must realize that.

"Calling it like it is" does not mean writing off the deaths of thousands of people just because it happens in a city I'm not supposed to give a shit about.

Oklahoma City ring any bells? I can't be the only person who hasn't forgotten about that.

I don't know what's more offensive: Your post or how far off track a thread about restaurants got because you can't fathom the fact that maybe, just maybe, places like Philadelphia have a restaurant scene worth a damn even if it doesn't jive with your worldview.

[JManc]

are you people for real? we are talking about restaurants in various cities and people cant even handle that without off the wall/ borderline offensive comments. i suggest logging off and actually go out to one of these restaurants rather than argue what city has a better sushi joint.

[AusHou]

Originally Posted by relnahe

Most retarded thing I've read on here and I've suffered through all of Mike Toronto's posts.

Well said. Sometimes I wonder if some of these forumers ever got out of grade school, considering the lack of logic, knowledge, and overall intelligence in their comments (not just this thread, but many others as well). Maybe we should call it the "Jethro Bodine" syndrome, if you know what I mean.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Chase Unperson

Yeah and the media/international/US response to OKC was minute compared to what happened in NYC.

could it be that 3000 people died and the world watched hijacked planes (a big story in of itself) dramatically slam into two high profile buildings on live TV?

[mhays]

Imagine that. A sous chef with personality and judgement problems. Gotta be a first.

[rockyi]

^A sous chef from an ELITE restaurant.

[Chef]

Originally Posted by mhays

Imagine that. A sous chef with personality and judgement problems. Gotta be a first.

There are two types of sous chefs: those who will someday have their own kitchen but aren't ready yet, and those who have the skills and experience but are too psycho to ever be made head chef.