YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion - Page 167

Johnny Aussie · #**3321** Posted **Dec 15, 2010, 9:40 AM**

Yet another boost to Asia next summer.

Korean Air daily 772 effective 4 July 2011. Was planned to be a 5 weekly 772 operation again.

So who's next?!

whatnext · #**3322** Posted **Dec 15, 2010, 5:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity

flew into vancouver the other day from castlegar. there was hsbc signage all over the outside of the domestic terminal. hundreds of feet of it. never saw outside sponsorship on an airport before. is this normal?

Lucky you, they don't call it Cancelgar for nothing! BC flying at its best.

red-paladin · #**3323** Posted **Dec 15, 2010, 8:48 PM**

There would probably be a $5 Feng shui + koi pond fee at YVR if there wasn't!

SpongeG · #**3324** Posted **Dec 15, 2010, 11:09 PM**

oops wrong things

SpongeG · #**3325** Posted **Dec 15, 2010, 11:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity

flew into vancouver the other day from castlegar. there was hsbc signage all over the outside of the domestic terminal. hundreds of feet of it. never saw outside sponsorship on an airport before. is this normal?

heathrow is plastered in HSBC advertising - everywhere the walkways the terminals the things you walk down to the plane, the luggage carts etc

at least when i was there in 2002 it was like that

xd_1771 · #**3326** Posted **Dec 16, 2010, 5:51 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Yet another boost to Asia next summer.

Korean Air daily 772 effective 4 July 2011. Was planned to be a 5 weekly 772 operation again.

So who's next?!

Really? That seems nice, but I do wonder if the 772ER is enough (I flew on it lately and despite the weekday & early morning departure it seemed quite crowded). Perhaps they should consider using a 773ER for this route.
I've flown JAL's 747ER's out of Vancouver as well, I don't believe they had in-seat power there.

Denscity · #**3327** Posted **Dec 16, 2010, 7:18 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext

Lucky you, they don't call it Cancelgar for nothing! BC flying at its best.

We (YCG) did have 90 000 passengers fly in and out successfully last year. Not bad for a city of 7500. But ya, definitely BC flying. Like landing in a soup bowl (mountains surrounding and at each end of the runway)

whatnext · #**3328** Posted **Dec 16, 2010, 7:45 AM**

No strictly YVR related, but Oneworld is moving their head office from Vancouver to New York.

Sad, but its remarkable they lasted as long as they did here, after Canadian was bought out by AC and left that alliance. There'll be some vacant office space in the Marine Building.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/s...ce%20Plans%20HQ%20Move%20To%20New%20York

Vancity · #**3329** Posted **Dec 16, 2010, 9:22 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext

No strictly YVR related, but Oneworld is moving their head office from Vancouver to New York.

Sad, but its remarkable they lasted as long as they did here, after Canadian was bought out by AC and left that alliance. There'll be some vacant office space in the Marine Building.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/s...ce%20Plans%20HQ%20Move%20To%20New%20York

doesn't surprise me one bit, that Vancouver loses yet another organization to another city. This should surprise no one.

Johnny Aussie · #**3330** Posted **Dec 16, 2010, 11:32 AM**

Here comes another one... although Cargo this time...

China Southern Cargo to commence YVR in summer 2011... PVG-LAX-YVR-PVG routing..

http://airlineroute.net/2010/12/16/czc-yvrmxp-s11/

So I wonder if China Southern (passenger) will be starting anytime soon... hmmm...

trofirhen · #**3331** Posted **Dec 16, 2010, 5:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vancity

doesn't surprise me one bit, that Vancouver loses yet another organization to another city. This should surprise no one.

You got that right. All this makes me wonder what kind of economy Vancouver is going to have in 25 years, and what the "makeup" of the city will be. I think we need to start diversifying, and FAST.

deasine · #**3332** Posted **Dec 16, 2010, 6:16 PM**

Okay, OneWorld should not have been in Vancouver the first place. We are barely a hub for OneWorld. New York is much more suitable as it has access to many more OneWorld airlines. Plus, with the recent AA-BA-IB trans-atlantic cooperation and BA-IB merger, and the now 4 CX flights leaving JFK daily, New York really is the better place to have Oneworld's headquarters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Here comes another one... although Cargo this time...

China Southern Cargo to commence YVR in summer 2011... PVG-LAX-YVR-PVG routing..

http://airlineroute.net/2010/12/16/czc-yvrmxp-s11/

So I wonder if China Southern (passenger) will be starting anytime soon... hmmm...

Well China Southern has been looking into YVR since 2003, but rising fuel costs, downturn, and other priorities has delayed their YVR access. Definitely, with so many Chinese mainlanders residing in Vancouver (namely Richmond of course) as well as the growing foreign investment into Canada/United States, I'm sure China Southern will introduce YVR-CAN flights soon.

And while that might be great news for us as consumers, it will definitely hit CX hard as many mainlanders will decide to take CS over CX. In fact, there was even some discussion about canceling the nightly YVR portion of the HKG-YVR-JFK flight if China Southern was coming to YVR.

whatnext · #**3333** Posted **Dec 16, 2010, 8:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by deasine

Okay, OneWorld should not have been in Vancouver the first place. We are barely a hub for OneWorld. New York is much more suitable as it has access to many more OneWorld airlines. Plus, with the recent AA-BA-IB trans-atlantic cooperation and BA-IB merger, and the now 4 CX flights leaving JFK daily, New York really is the better place to have Oneworld's headquarters..

Not completely true. Vancouver was well positioned as an intermediate spot for QF, CX, BA and very handy for AA. Now QF and CX staff will have a long slog to attend meetings in New York.

Perhaps if Westjet had signed on a true partner they might have stayed.

Johnny Aussie · #**3334** Posted **Dec 16, 2010, 8:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by deasine

And while that might be great news for us as consumers, it will definitely hit CX hard as many mainlanders will decide to take CS over CX. In fact, there was even some discussion about canceling the nightly YVR portion of the HKG-YVR-JFK flight if China Southern was coming to YVR.

Doubt it. China is about to explode with its overseas travel restrictions softening. And with Canada finally obtaining ADS (approved destination status) look for a huge increase in travel from China to Canada (not all at once, but over the next few years). There will be plenty for everyone (CX, CZ, CA, MU, AC... etc). We are now starting to experience that in Australia, with massive capacity increases occurring from each and every Chinese airline here.

deasine · #**3335** Posted **Dec 17, 2010, 12:53 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext

Not completely true. Vancouver was well positioned as an intermediate spot for QF, CX, BA and very handy for AA. Now QF and CX staff will have a long slog to attend meetings in New York.

Perhaps if Westjet had signed on a true partner they might have stayed.

QF doesn't have any flights into YVR, and plus CX, BA, and AA don't have that many flights into YVR, especially in comparison to JFK. QF and CX both fly direct. And yes, while QF and CX staff have to fly longer (which really isn't that much longer), AA, IB and BA have shorter flights. Oh, don't forget AY, RJ, and LA. Future member AB is also joining OneWorld, and it also has yearly scheduled service flights to JFK (whereas to YVR it's seasonal).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Doubt it. China is about to explode with its overseas travel restrictions softening. And with Canada finally obtaining ADS (approved destination status) look for a huge increase in travel from China to Canada (not all at once, but over the next few years). There will be plenty for everyone (CX, CZ, CA, MU, AC... etc). We are now starting to experience that in Australia, with massive capacity increases occurring from each and every Chinese airline here.

Well this was based on passenger figures back in 2005, but I'm sure CX will be hit either way. If CZ has competitive prices, not only mainlanders, but people bound for HKG will take CZ, then either make a connection flight at CAN, or even take the future bullet train down to Hong Kong. I can see CX reducing capacity on their YVR route and using a 777 for their afternoon flights instead of a 747.

One thing is, if CZ does fly into YVR, I can see WS making another interline agreement with CZ and MU. WS is really in a position not to join any alliance, especially since it has so many agreements with different airlines (Skyteam: AF, KL, CI/OneWorld: CX codeshare, AA, BA).

whatnext · #**3336** Posted **Dec 18, 2010, 6:31 PM**

Looks like Richmond Council had their annual gripe-fest with YVR.
http://www.richmond-news.com/talks+noise+pipes+parking/3957432/story.html

Interesting to note their parking revenue plummeted with the intro of the C-Line. And that they're trying to get more flights from Taiwan.

Hourglass · #**3337** Posted **Dec 18, 2010, 6:52 PM**

I don't see CZ making a huge dent in Cathay's overall traffic. They serve somewhat different demographics for one thing. For another, CX gets far more passengers transiting to points beyond Hong Kong. Every time I've flown CX between YVR and HKG, a significant proportion of passengers were Indian, Filipino, even Japanese. And yes, PRC Chinese.

More Taiwan traffic? Taiwan is a low-yield route from what I've heard, and even if EVA Air goes daily, that's only 4 extra flights per week. Unless YVR is trying to attract back Singapore Airlines, which I understand has 5th freedom rights from Singapore via Taipei.

deasine · #**3338** Posted **Dec 18, 2010, 10:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hourglass

I don't see CZ making a huge dent in Cathay's overall traffic. They serve somewhat different demographics for one thing. For another, CX gets far more passengers transiting to points beyond Hong Kong. Every time I've flown CX between YVR and HKG, a significant proportion of passengers were Indian, Filipino, even Japanese. And yes, PRC Chinese.

More Taiwan traffic? Taiwan is a low-yield route from what I've heard, and even if EVA Air goes daily, that's only 4 extra flights per week. Unless YVR is trying to attract back Singapore Airlines, which I understand has 5th freedom rights from Singapore via Taipei.

While CAN is not even close to HKG's network and destinations, CAN is quite large, actually the second largest airport in mainland China. Even HKG believes CAN is a major competitor. CZ uses CAN as its main hub, and it flies to many of the Asian destinations that other passengers that would otherwise use BR, CI, CX, and PR fliers use. CZ flies to MNL, DPS, SGN, HKG, and many others. Plus, CZ is part of SkyTeam, who is definitely are trying to expand their Asian network: many passengers who don't have access to North America may be funneled through CAN YVR & LAX CZroutes.

I'm not sure if SQ has fifth freedoms for TPE as I don't know any routes that connect through TPE, but I know SQ has fifth freedom at NRT, ICN, and HKG. The old SQ YVR-SIN route I remember used ICN as a stopover.

NetMapel · #**3339** Posted **Dec 18, 2010, 11:00 PM**

With the recent move that eliminated VISA for Taiwanese travelers, I would expect an increase in Taiwanese visiting Canada in the future.

Hourglass · #**3340** Posted **Dec 19, 2010, 9:47 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by deasine

While CAN is not even close to HKG's network and destinations, CAN is quite large, actually the second largest airport in mainland China. Even HKG believes CAN is a major competitor. CZ uses CAN as its main hub, and it flies to many of the Asian destinations that other passengers that would otherwise use BR, CI, CX, and PR fliers use. CZ flies to MNL, DPS, SGN, HKG, and many others. Plus, CZ is part of SkyTeam, who is definitely are trying to expand their Asian network: many passengers who don't have access to North America may be funneled through CAN YVR & LAX CZroutes.

I'm not sure if SQ has fifth freedoms for TPE as I don't know any routes that connect through TPE, but I know SQ has fifth freedom at NRT, ICN, and HKG. The old SQ YVR-SIN route I remember used ICN as a stopover.

I agree CAN will emerge as a competitor to HKG, but CZ is currently far behind CX in service standards and efficiency. Moreover, CAN is not a particularly pleasant airport to transit while HKG was designed with transiting passengers in mind. My observation is that Chinese airlines and airports in general are not set-up to support efficient transfers, although I'm sure it will change in the future. For my part, if I was based in southern China as a regular international traveler, I would go out of my way to fly CX/KA via HKG than to take a Chinese airline. I've simply had too many unpleasant experiences traveling with Chinese airlines.

Anyway, I believe there is room in the market for both given the rapid growth in air travel in and around China and the slightly different demographics.

Canada's new bilateral with Singapore was rumored to have TPE as the stopover point. I don't know whether ICN remained part of the new agreement. SQ does transit Taipei for flights to LAX.