Halifax Stadium Discussion

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

I think 1-4 are great, with 4 obviously presenting more difficulties due to SE NIMBY power.

not to beat a dead horse, but now that the St Josephs development has been shortened due to people complaining it was too tall, I am sure you made the same comment in that thread about NE NIMBY power, right?

[Dmajackson]

Councillors differ on need for new stadium
Fisher: Venue needed even if city isn’t part of world soccer event
By MICHAEL LIGHTSTONE City Hall Reporter
Thu, Dec 9 - 4:54 AM

If Canada loses, can Halifax Regional Municipality score anyway?

Even if the 2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup never comes to metro, council’s endorsement this week of efforts to make it a host city may finally get the ball rolling on a sports stadium here, said the regional councillor who led the charge.

» SEE ALSO: Let’s hear some smart discussion

Coun. Darren Fisher (East Dartmouth-The Lakes) said Wednesday that he firmly believes the municipality has a shot at becoming one of the host sites in the Canadian bid for the international soccer tournament.

Fisher made the motion at Tuesday’s committee of the whole session that resulted in the city pressing ahead with a bid to be a World Cup site.

The Canadian Soccer Association is hoping to land the tournament in this country, and at least six cities would be needed to play host. Events Nova Scotia is covering a $25,000 non-refundable bid fee for the Halifax bid. Expressions of interest must be filed by Dec. 24.

One of the requirements to host games is a stadium with a minimum of 20,000 seats.

Should Canada lose the bidding war or metro be shut out of a Canadian victory, Fisher said building an outdoor stadium is still a good idea.

A municipal manager’s comment during Tuesday’s meeting that staff will be looking in the viability of stadium here may have opened a window of opportunity, the councillor said.

"The impression that I got from what (he) said was that even if this does fall through and we don’t get to host these games, we will have a little bit of our homework done for the future," he said. "There’s a common feeling that this piece of sports infrastructure is needed in our community."

Canada is one of several countries preparing bids to deliver to FIFA by Feb. 11. A decision on a successful candidate to host the 24-team, 52-game spectacle is expected following final presentations in Switzerland in March.

Fisher acknowledged deadlines are tight, but feels the municipality can be competitive in the race for the World Cup. If successful, he said city leaders have a few years to secure funding for a venue, get it designed and have it built.

Other Canadian cities interested in the tournament may include Moncton.

Shane Porter, Moncton’s manager of event facilities, told The Chronicle Herald that city staff there are preparing a report for Mayor George LeBlanc and council.

"We are working through the (soccer association) file right now," he said. "We will be taking a recommendation to council before the deadline."

If need be, Moncton council might hold a special meeting to discuss the World Cup hosting issue, Porter said.

A relatively new stadium at the University of Moncton has about 8,500 permanent seats and used about 12,000 temporary seats to handle a CFL game in September, he said.

In Halifax, Coun. Tim Outhit (Bedford) recently said Moncton’s interest in the FIFA event should raise "a huge red flag" for metro’s municipal officials.

"I could go on at great length, but I won’t, on the difference between Moncton and Halifax and why I choose our economy, which is a knowledge economy, not an event economy," he told the committee of the whole meeting.

"I really think we’re getting carried away on this," Outhit said, of the stadium matter.

"I’m all for building and I’m all for being a wonderful, thriving whatever. If we want to make downtown Halifax something unique, let’s put in commuter rail. That will do a heck of a lot more than a stadium in the long term, in my opinion."


With Ian Fairclough, staff reporter
( [email protected] )

[beyeas]

Let’s hear some smart discussion

By CHRIS COCHRANE Sports Columnist
Thu, Dec 9 - 4:54 AM

At some point, Halifax has to get real on the stadium issue — give it proper study, a meaningful debate and then come to a decision supported by solid facts.

Yes, I’m again pushing the stadium bandwagon now that Halifax regional council voted this week to bid on the chance to be one of the host cities for the 2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup if Canada wins the hosting rights.

And yes, we were down a similar road with the 2014 Commonwealth Games venture. And we all know that project was masked with vague promises that really couldn’t stand the test of time or budgetary realities.

Truth is, when our community debated whether the Commonwealth Games was a worthwhile project, not many people had the facts needed for informed discussion.

Few of us outside the Games inner committee circle knew that the eventual cost would be far in excess of the figures being debated. And, in the end, it was the secrecy and terribly inaccurate estimates that eventually turned public opinion against the project and helped sink the bid.

So let’s not make the same mistakes again.

The real prize here isn’t only the right to host such a terrific event as the 2015 World Cup. It’s also about the stadium that will be needed. Based on previous experience across the country, there is hope that if Halifax becomes a host city, the federal government will help with the cost of building a new stadium here.

There is little time to get everything in order for this bid. In fact, Grant MacDonald of Events Nova Scotia advised regional council against going after a host role, given that expressions of interest have to be submitted by Dec. 24.

But council wants to go ahead, and I have a feeling that Events Nova Scotia has already done more homework on this topic than we know about.

So let’s hope they remember the lessons we should have learned from the Commonwealth Games. The main one is to make sure that all the costs are out in the open, from the start, for everyone to see.

Here are a few things I would like to see made public, facts I hope are already available to our city planners and bureaucrats since the stadium issue has been a hot topic for so long:

•How much will a stadium cost? Will it be in the range of $20 million to $30 million, like the new stadium in Moncton, or will it be much more expensive because the minimum capacity for a World Cup stadium is now at 20,000 permanent seats?

•Will private money be involved in construction costs?

•What will it cost to maintain the stadium and the accompanying infrastructure, and what percentage of those costs will be covered by renting the stadium?

•Where are the best locations for a stadium and what effects will its location have on our city and its existing infrastructure?

•Who will be eligible to use the new stadium? Will it be primarily reserved for major events, with time set aside at reasonable rental rates for community events?

•Once the World Cup is over, what other streams of stadium revenue will flow from sports, entertainment and business sources?

These are questions I would like answered. And, obviously, it has to be done quickly. Then, after everyone has the same, accurate information, let’s have some much-needed informed debate over a stadium’s merits before council takes another look at the issue next month.

( [email protected])

Chris Cochrane is a sports columnist with The Chronicle Herald.

[fenwick16]

Regarding this story - Councillors differ on need for new stadium in the Chronicle Herald, I can understand that Councillor Outhit is taking a practical approach but how can he say that considering a stadium that majority of residents in the HRM are in favour of, is getting carried away? In that case, there are people who have been getting carried away for the past 30 years (and nothing has happened - so is he implying that the wishes of the majority are unimportant?). Although commuter rail is important, I don't see a majority of HRM residents requesting commuter rail to Bedford. Most HRM residents' lives don't revolve around Bedford!

Luckily there are many councillors in the HRM who understand why a stadium is an exciting concept to the majority of residents. It just has to be done economically in a phased approach so that it will be a benefit to HRM residents instead of a burden.

PS: Question: When you read the comments to this story - http://thechronicleherald.ca/Front/1216216.html#comment-17543 - how many of the people who are opposed sound like the same person using various usernames? It is also interesting that Bruce D didn't post a comment.

[MonctonRad]

Regardless of Councillor Outhit's opinions, it is simplistic to dismiss Moncton as an "event" economy and limit Halifax to a "knowledge" economy.

There are actually 12,000 post graduate students at institutions in southeastern NB (study done for Codiac Transit earlier this year). We have three full fledged universities (U de M, Mt. A and Crandall), a health sciences campus of UNB at the Moncton Hospital and medical training programs affiliated with U de Sherbrooke and Dalhousie. In addition, we have two community colleges (NBCC Moncton and CCNB Dieppe). The Atlantic Cancer Research Centre and the Gulf Fisheries Centre are important research institutions.

Similarly, Halifax is more than universities, research centres and civil servants. It is unfair to pigeon-hole either city.

While each community should play to their strengths, any city worth it's salt should attempt to be as well rounded as possible. A stadium for Halifax would tend to make the community more attractive to new businesses and new residents. People want to be entertained. A stadium for Halifax is a no-brainer. The question is what size should it be and where should it be built?

[q12]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

PS: Question: When you read the comments to this story - http://thechronicleherald.ca/Front/1216216.html#comment-17543 - how many of the people who are opposed sound like the same person using various usernames? It is also interesting that Bruce D didn't post a comment.

Yeah I hear what your saying fenwick. It's frustrating in this city when you have people like him that actively try to convince the public that everything positive in this city is a waste of money.

Since he really is a nobody and couldn't get elected as a councillor, hopefully most people are annoyed by him and ignore his bad, uninformed arguments against this project.

[q12]

Here is an interesting link for 2011 Womens World Cup being held in Germany this summer with a list of the host cities and stadiums.

http://www.fifa.com/womensworldcup/destination/stadiums/index.html

Notice there are nine cities hosting which bodes well for the possibility of Canada picking all eight cities. This would be good news for Halifax and Moncton too.

Here is a nice stadium in Augsberg, Germany that seats 22,216.

[ATL Stadium]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

The HRM should try to sell the 40million plus 4 pad arena to private management and build a stadium from the proceeds.

I can't believe the city spent that much on frickin rinks...

What do you mean you cant believe they spent that much on 4 rinks?
Have you heard how much that Library is going to cost? $55 million.!
Do you know that HRM already has 18 other library locations! 58000 ppl live on the peninsula the rest live off! Using 2006 numbers...thats only about 16% of the residents.....the Library is basically a $55,000,000 architectural monument.

[ATL Stadium]

Originally Posted by Empire

Stadium Sites:

1. Shannon Park
2. Mainland Common North
3. DND/Windsor Willow
4. Gorsebrook
5. Dartmouth Crossing
6. Exhibition Park

I know we have gone over this before.....in my opinion....
A peninsula location is either too costly to acquire or simply would be a huge "issue". The NIMBY or the parking/walking/trafficjam issues are much easier to address off peninsula plus that is where the (84%) people live..

I like 1, 2, 5....not so keen on 6

I'm happy to have a STADIUM pretty much anywhere but.....if its going to be a success it has to have an easy in and out, be visible and not be a disruption to the existing areas.
I dont really buy the need to be close to SMU or Dal for the student population.....maybe an off campus stadium would actually bring the suburban students to the games and the residence student out of the hi-rise towers.....and in the stands.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by ATL Stadium

What do you mean you cant believe they spent that much on 4 rinks?
Have you heard how much that Library is going to cost? $55 million.!
Do you know that HRM already has 18 other library locations! 58000 ppl live on the peninsula the rest live off! Using 2006 numbers...thats only about 16% of the residents.....the Library is basically a $55,000,000 architectural monument.

I do understand your point, but the issue I have is that it just equally makes it ok for so-called "library folks" to also say "oh why should we spent 40M on something that is going to sit empty 90% of the time bla bla bla".

This city is rampant with people pitting one side against the other, when the fact is we do need multiple pieces of infrastructure here, and many of those are only going to be used by a segment of society. Pitting one thing against the other doesn't always help, and we just end up with supporters of a given project denigrating other projects rather than simply communicating positive arguments for their own priority. Successful projects should sink or swim on their own arguments/merits, not because another project has successfully been crushed by negative comments.

I should note as well that I mean this as a general observation, and not an attack on you. In fact it pisses me off bigtime when I hear library/arts supporters complain that too much money is spent on sports.

[DigitalNinja]

Stupid face Rick Howe is doing a segment on a stadium right now, Tim Ohit is on there with him apparently he supports the convention center, but thinks we shouldn't spend money on a stadium when we just built the 4pad.

[thurmas]

All Halifax has to do is follow what Vancouver and the Lions did with Empire Field. Seats 27,000 great reviews and was built cheap. It would cost a bit more to make such a stadium a permanent one but it wouldn't have to be done right away if Halifax wants to push for a Grey Cup.

[Jstaleness]

Originally Posted by DigitalNinja

Stupid face Rick Howe is doing a segment on a stadium right now, Tim Ohit is on there with him apparently he supports the convention center, but thinks we shouldn't spend money on a stadium when we just built the 4pad.

Rick is no Andrew Krystal that's for sure but the guy is usually pro development in this city. Is Rick against the Stadium? I wasn't able to listen today. News 95.7 for anyone who doesn't know what I'm referring to.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Jstaleness

Rick is no Andrew Krystal that's for sure but the guy is usually pro development in this city. Is Rick against the Stadium? I wasn't able to listen today. News 95.7 for anyone who doesn't know what I'm referring to.

In his rant on the internet he has stated a few times that he likes the idea of a stadium.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by DigitalNinja

Stupid face Rick Howe is doing a segment on a stadium right now, Tim Ohit is on there with him apparently he supports the convention center, but thinks we shouldn't spend money on a stadium when we just built the 4pad.

Very interesting how Tim Outhit (Bedford councilor) can say now that we have a very expensive 4-pad arena in Bedford we shouldn't build a stadium.

- now that my neighbourhood is taken care of ....the heck with the rest of you!
- 4-pad cost $40 million of tax payer’s money because we have an NDP gov.
- Tim Outhit was very instrumental in Knowledge House and it is very puzzling
why he would think that young professionals, entrepreneurs, shift workers, artisans etc.etc. would not want to live in a community that has the complete package.....library, performing arts centre, 4-pad, stadium etc.

[CorbeauNoir]

Guess who found a new anti-development subject to rant about endlessly for the next several months?

Halifax council wants a stadium but won't plan for it
City to bid on hosting 2015 Women's World Cup of soccer
Posted by Tim Bousquet on Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 1:08 PM

It’s cart before horse time again. It’s axiomatic that Halifax needs a new stadium, but a long-term recreation and business plan detailing exactly how such a facility would be managed and what continuing operational costs taxpayers would bear has never been produced. That didn’t stop city council Tuesday from chasing after after a stadium for a single event, long term issues be damned.

Despite a recommendation from Trade Centre Limited that the city *not* proceed, council voted to bid on the 2015 Women’s Cup of soccer. The city will pay $25,000 to enter the hosting contest, then commit to having a stadium with a minimum of 20,000 seats. Should Halifax win the bid, the city will have to provide $250,000 in “in kind” services (policing, transit and the like), $2 million paid to the Canadian Soccer Association for operational costs associated with the games and, additionally, whatever a stadium would cost, both in terms of construction and long-term operations.

TCL’s presentation to council, found at tinyurl.com/HalifaxWorldCup, is remarkably explicit about the need for long-term planning for a stadium. “HRM staff [should] continue a long-term approach to scoping and planning a multi-purpose outdoor venue that meets community needs and incorporates flexibility for future major event opportunities,” reads the report, which suggests that those planning issues be further studied. Moreover, warns the presentation, the timelines for submitting the bid to the Canadian Soccer Association are so tight that they “do not allow for proper due diligence on venue feasibility, public input or funding partnerships.”

Still, council voted to proceed with the bid on a voice vote. “We’ve got to jump start a stadium,” says councillor Fisher, who made the motion to continue. “Tying it to an event is the only way we’ll get one.”

[DigitalNinja]

I felt like phoning in countering when he was saying basically "Now that we have a 4pad we shouldn't build a stadium right now."
That is comparing apples to oranges, a stadium can get much more private money than a 4pad and also appeals to more people when it can have a capacity for 20-30k. Halifax needs this stuff to appeal to more people.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir

Guess who found a new anti-development subject to rant about endlessly for the next several months?

Time to blow the whistle on Timbit. His uninformed leftist columns impress no one. FYI the city isn`t paying the $25,00 fee for the bid, Events Nova Scotia is....

By Timmy

Halifax council wants a stadium but won't plan for it
City to bid on hosting 2015 Women's World Cup of soccer
Posted by Tim Bousquet on Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 1:08 PM



The city will pay $25,000 to enter the hosting contest, then commit to having a stadium with a minimum of 20,000 seats. Should Halifax win the bid, the city will have to provide $250,000 in “in kind” services (policing, transit and the like), $2 million paid to the Canadian Soccer Association for operational costs associated with the games and, additionally, whatever a stadium would cost, both in terms of construction and long-term operations.

[DigitalNinja]

Lol Empire, I just sent them in an e-mail telling them that was wrong. Stating your opinion in a new article is alright, but not stating false information.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by beyeas

not to beat a dead horse, but now that the St Josephs development has been shortened due to people complaining it was too tall, I am sure you made the same comment in that thread about NE NIMBY power, right?

Naw, SE has the most NIMBY power.

(See post 111, page 6 of the St. Josephs thread... I asked the question I wonder if the NE NIMBYs have as much clout... If we see St Josephs built, we might know the answer)