Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[nname]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

its supposed to take 25 mins from douglas to lougheed and than you have transfer to the other platform based on the plans i have seen plus whatever bus someone needs to take from westwood plateau which are not good at all a joke if you wanna call what they get for service

End-to-end travel time for SkyTrain is 13min (25min was from the LRT plan), and with no transfer (the transfer is also from the LRT plan).

That's more than 70% of time saving just to get from Coquitlam Centre to Production!

[golog]

What is the existing transit ridership along the Evergreen route, and does anyone have a guess as to what the ridership on the Evergreen line would be at launch?

[punface]

Originally Posted by golog

What is the existing transit ridership along the Evergreen route, and does anyone have a guess as to what the ridership on the Evergreen line would be at launch?

It's not the at launch number, but this document (http://www.evergreenline.gov.bc.ca/documents/ProjectUpdates/090929_ProjectUpdate.pdf) says "Ridership: About 70,000 per day by 2021." I would love to know if this number is already taking into account the success of the Canada Line.

This document also confirms that Coquitlam Center -> Lougheed will be 13 minutes with the Evergreen Line (+ a lot of people continuing to destinations on the Millennium Line will save additional time with not having to transfer, as mentioned above.)

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by golog

What is the existing transit ridership along the Evergreen route, and does anyone have a guess as to what the ridership on the Evergreen line would be at launch?

coquitlam is only 120,000 or so, pt moody is 15,000 and i think poco is around 20,000

so about 160,000+ in the tri-cities

of that number they can use the west coast express to get into downtown vancouver so that takes a large chunk of people out of the equation

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by punface

It's not the at launch number, but this document (http://www.evergreenline.gov.bc.ca/documents/ProjectUpdates/090929_ProjectUpdate.pdf) says "Ridership: About 70,000 per day by 2021." I would love to know if this number is already taking into account the success of the Canada Line.

This document also confirms that Coquitlam Center -> Lougheed will be 13 minutes with the Evergreen Line (+ a lot of people continuing to destinations on the Millennium Line will save additional time with not having to transfer, as mentioned above.)

I would put the launch figure at somewhere between 40,000-50,000...which would actually match the numbers the Millennium Line had during its inaugural year.

Personally, like Translink, I hadn't expect the Canada Line to reach 100,000 until maybe 2012 or 2013. I had been expecting that it would hover around 80,000 during its first year.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

coquitlam is only 120,000 or so, pt moody is 15,000 and i think poco is around 20,000

so about 160,000+ in the tri-cities

of that number they can use the west coast express to get into downtown vancouver so that takes a large chunk of people out of the equation

Not really, since the WCE only leaves for downtown 5 times a day, and only in the early morning, and same for the evening, and only on weekdays as well. Also remember that this will be the skytrain link for Poco, Pitt Meadows & Maple Ridge as well. Same as how The spur in Surrey services far more than just Surrey.

I fully support the Evergreen Line, given that unlike the possible Surrey extensions the entire stretch of the line will be relatively urbanized (no long stretches of ALR), and that downtown Coquitlam has been densifying quite a bit in the last 10 years, not to mention Ioco.

In fact these areas have been densifying far better than the areas in Surrey surrounding their existing skytrain stations.

And that is the kicker for me, Surrey has had skytrain now for nearly 20 years and look how little of their population gain in that time period has been around these stations. Only now are they starting to utilize them. It is this reason that I feel the North East tri-cities sector should get skytrain first (because they have already been densifying and zoning around in the mere hope of gaining skytrain) instead of Surrey (which has essentially done relatively little around their existing skytrain stations given the fact they are the second most populous city in Metro-Vancouver).

[SpongeG]

we're talking commuters here those that work downtown already use and will continue to use the west coast express - i doubt the e-line will steal 1000's of riders

i don't know what the numbers for that service are but they will not drop and switch to the other line - why would they? that would be insane

we are talking in terms of people working downtown who are well served by the express service as it is now

anyway carry on

i thinkl the money should be plugged into extending the m-line to hook up with the c-line at minimum and than revisit the e-line idea

the region would be much better off with a decent way to navigate the boradway corridor instead of an underpopulated NE suburb

[DKaz]

The Evergreen Line will probably attract MORE people onto West Coast Express, maybe those who live in Maple Ridge and work in Metrotown. Currently it takes a long time to take transit between the two, about an hour and orty if traffic on the Mary Hill Bypass isn't too bad, but with West Coast Express and Evergreen Line, that can cut down to under an hour.

[WaxItYourself]

When people take the west coast express, though, don't they pay quite a lot more than just taking the skytrain? I'm not sure as I have never taken the WCE before. If that is so then would they not be losing money per passenger if they live near one of the new Skytrain stations and take Skytrain to work instead of WCE?

[Metro-One]

And the WCE express is only good for 9 to 5 office commuters who work directly downtown. I suspect these days that is only a small fraction of potential transit ridership.

I am currently making some maps and analysis of the Evergreen Line for a GIS project in school, i might post it when I am done, but if I do, promise not to laugh! hehe.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by DKaz

The Evergreen Line will probably attract MORE people onto West Coast Express, maybe those who live in Maple Ridge and work in Metrotown. Currently it takes a long time to take transit between the two, about an hour and orty if traffic on the Mary Hill Bypass isn't too bad, but with West Coast Express and Evergreen Line, that can cut down to under an hour.

People living in the Lougheed Mall area might discover they could take Evergreen Line north to PoMo station & then WCE to Waterfront instead of Evergreen Line to Commercial/Broadway, then Expo Line to Waterfront. Because WCE leaving PoMo station is non-stop to downtown Vancouver, the overall trip could be faster.

The WCE monthly pass is more expensive, but the WCE monthly includes Translink trips too, so the Evergreen Line segment is already paid for. I think the WCE monthly from PoMo is $180 vs a three-zone Translink for $150. For some people the extra $30 would be worth the convenience to get downtown 10-15 minutes faster via PoMo than using an all-Skytrain trip through Broadway/Commercial.

[jsbertram]

not quite on topic:

Using the Translink trip finder to go from Lougheed to Waterfront in the AM rush, the first hit (as expected) was Lougheed - Broadway/Commercial - Waterfront, but the second fastest (just a minute slower) is Lougheed - New West - Waterfront.

Nice to know that the 'reverse loop' from Lougheed gets you a no-transfer trip to Waterfront & only takes an extra minute & no fighting the crowds at Broadway/Commercial.

[Zassk]

Enjoy the reverse loop, while it lasts (until 2014/2015). :-)

[red-paladin]

Originally Posted by DKaz

The Evergreen Line will probably attract MORE people onto West Coast Express, maybe those who live in Maple Ridge and work in Metrotown. Currently it takes a long time to take transit between the two, about an hour and orty if traffic on the Mary Hill Bypass isn't too bad, but with West Coast Express and Evergreen Line, that can cut down to under an hour.

Also, people who live in Coquitlam and Pomo that already take the bus to get on at the WCE stations would use the line. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see a bunch of people get on at Douglas College and Ioco that take it just one stop to get on the WCE.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

People living in the Lougheed Mall area might discover they could take Evergreen Line north to PoMo station & then WCE to Waterfront instead of Evergreen Line to Commercial/Broadway, then Expo Line to Waterfront. Because WCE leaving PoMo station is non-stop to downtown Vancouver, the overall trip could be faster.

The WCE monthly pass is more expensive, but the WCE monthly includes Translink trips too, so the Evergreen Line segment is already paid for. I think the WCE monthly from PoMo is $180 vs a three-zone Translink for $150. For some people the extra $30 would be worth the convenience to get downtown 10-15 minutes faster via PoMo than using an all-Skytrain trip through Broadway/Commercial.

I used to to that about once a month when I lived in Burquitlam, more frequently on the way home though. Either way, bus to Skytrain or WCE on average took the same amount of time to get to/from downtown, but if I timed it right, the WCE was faster. Even though I was backtracking, the speed of the WCE made up for it.

[SpongeG]

people already do it with the bus

I just think we have what $700 million or something just sitting there - isn;t that teh amount they need to extend the m-line to arbutus?

use the money for that than the start the fund raising for the e-line and start it in 2015

its been promised for decades and NOTHING ever happens

I have no faith I will be able to use the e-line in the next 5 years

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by WaxItYourself

When people take the west coast express, though, don't they pay quite a lot more than just taking the skytrain? I'm not sure as I have never taken the WCE before. If that is so then would they not be losing money per passenger if they live near one of the new Skytrain stations and take Skytrain to work instead of WCE?

Just a guess, but I think that although people who live (or Will be living) close to the (future) Evergreen Line would use that instead of the WCE, the commuter train will still be viable for the outer suburbs - Maple Ridge and onwards, and especially since these areas are bulding up fast and becoming an outer "commuter belt" found in most large cities.

[SpongeG]

why would they choose a slower mode of transport?

if you work downtown and live in coquitlam the west coast express is the best option

[nname]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

why would they choose a slower mode of transport?

if you work downtown and live in coquitlam the west coast express is the best option

But the majority want to go to Burnaby, New West, or other part of Vancouver instead of Downtown. If you exclude the trip within the subregion, trips to Downtown only makes up 16.3% of the total trips. The mode share of trips to other regions is currently really low.

All data come from 2008 trip diary report

AM Peak Trips from NES:
Within NES: 62%
To Burnaby/New West: 18%
To Downtown: 6%
To Rest of Van: 6%
To Surrey: 3%
To Ridge Meadows: 2%
To Richmond: 2%
To North Shore: 2%
To Langleys: 1%
To Fraser Valley: 1%

[SpongeG]

those people aren't using the west coast express now though - thats what i am saying people using it now are going to continue using it, people not using it will use busses now and will continue to do so even when the evergreen line is built

people living here now are going to burnaby, surrey, new west whatever they just use busses to get to lougheed town centre or whatever they do to commute

and this area isn't that bad for bus service where the line will run - the evergreen line will replace the b-line that runs right now and does a good job

if you live at schoolhouse and como lake no matter what is done you live in a crap zone and will always be that way - to get anywhere you will need connecting busses to get to the evergreen line or the westcoast express

this evergreen line i don't think is going to make the average coquitlam person's life any better