Lansdowne Park Redevelopment Phase 1 | Completed

[jemartin]

The public gamble and guaranteed loss is giving up public space, losing heritage and paying hundreds of taxpayer dollars for that privilege.

Competitive bidding works. Conservancy case in point. Right of the bat $200M less expensive and $300M to the taxpayer advantage.

The added bonus is that the nonprofit bid is available for the city as a competitive bid under the rules of procurement.

There is no reset, the City can adopt the Conservancy model right away.

There are no zoning issues, no heritage issues, no OMB issues.

Competitive bidding works.

If OSEG decides to pull the franchise even with a new stadium, than the answer is pretty clear it was never about football.

What you also have is a park without a tenant for the stadium. So you don't rebuild the stadium at Lansdowne but you preserve the
North Stands, arena and trade space and end up with a beautiful amateur sports facility for all of Ottawa, most notably the 50,000
members of the EODSA soccer league who are on the constant lookout for fields.

You also end up with a park developed in a heritage fashion for $47M.

And you end up with the developers looking to intensify at the transit hub and examine the benefits of a new full stadium there.

[jemartin]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitchissippi
Sounds like there is no guarantee that this conservancy will be competently run. Why would trustees and donors from other parts of the country or even the city be interested in a local park? Has this theoretical stellar group been asked and agreed to playing this role? What if the only "leading philanthropists" end up being developers?

The concept works in NYC's Central Park because it is globally visible and touches numerous neighbourhoods. NYC also has a large number of billionaires who don't blink when giving tens of millions. Ottawa drew a blank finding a sponsor for the Corktown bridge.

I have a feeling that this conservancy is nothing but a stalking horse for the "no stadium in the Glebe" group. The elements of the proposal seem like they were hastily pulled out of a hat as a knee-jerk reaction to Lansdowne Live.



The only thing missing is the City partner. With that in place it will be among the hottest and most coveted board memberships in town. The staff
will be the very capable and experienced people who work there, including the park manager and administrative staff. There will be a Park President possibly, a public figure, who will be the public face of the Conservancy and liaise between the board and the park staff.

The Conservancy will be a charitable structure to allow people to donate to special initiatives, such as sponsor a tree, a park bench, supporting education programs for youth, but the park will be more than self sufficient on its own, and the major capital investment will come at the start.

The comparison to Central Park is not the revenue model, Lansdowne Park yields significantly more direct revenue than Central Park.

The comparison to Central Park is nonprofit management with people who care about their public space and history and wish to ensure it is more beautiful and left for the enjoyment of present and future generations.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by jemartin

The only thing missing is the City partner. With that in place it will be among the hottest and most coveted board memberships in town. The staff will be the very capable and experienced people who work there, including the park manager and administrative staff. There will be a Park President possibly, a public figure, who will be the public face of the Conservancy and liaise between the board and the park staff.

The Conservancy will be a charitable structure to allow people to donate to special initiatives, such as sponsor a tree, a park bench, supporting education programs for youth, but the park will be more than self sufficient on its own, and the major capital investment will come at the start.

The comparison to Central Park is not the revenue model, Lansdowne Park yields significantly more direct revenue than Central Park.

The comparison to Central Park is nonprofit management with people who care about their public space and history and wish to ensure it is more beautiful and left for the enjoyment of present and future generations.

It all seems to ring hollow. If people cared that much about Lansdowne Park, they would have stepped up years ago. Plus what's the point of you acting like a puppet master if you don't plan on taking a leading role in it? All those organizations you mentioned would have to dedicate resources to be part of this. It won't be without cost, or future corruption — it will only be hottest and most coveted board memberships in town if there is swill involved.

[JFFournier]

Originally Posted by jemartin

If OSEG decides to pull the franchise even with a new stadium, than the answer is pretty clear it was never about football.

It's clear now. They never claimed that it was about football. From day one they said they wanted to revitalize a city asset and in their view, a football team helps accomplish that.

[JFFournier]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Ottawa drew a blank finding a sponsor for the Corktown bridge.

For that matter, those who are most in favour of it can't even raise $100G to try to prevent the very proposal they want to replace.

[KHOOLE]

Originally Posted by JFFournier

It's clear now. They never claimed that it was about football. From day one they said they wanted to revitalize a city asset and in their view, a football team helps accomplish that.

JFFournier, for everyone's elucidation, exactly when was day one?

[AuxTown]

There are two things that I care about in this entire debate.

1. Keeping Lansdowne a public treasure for future generations to enjoy.
2. Helping our City with excellent tax saving options and the manner by which
to achieve them.

I encourage everyone to give back to their City and Nation's Capital.

Others have mentioned it, but I'll say it again. This is the biggest RED FLAG about the whole Lansdowne Conservancy. If these people are so passionate about Lansdowne, then why did they let it crumble to its current state. And, for that matter, what is this herritage treasure that you seem to remember? Lansdowne has been an ugly sea of concrete for the better part of a century! It served its purpose as a large facility for outdoor sports and an OHL hockey team and was appropriate for a city it's size at the time. Ottawa is now a city of almost 1.4M people and to use a plot of land this central and this prominent as a glorified local park is a terrible example of under-development and an embarassment for this city. Please don't mention Central Park again (I'm just reading your mind jemartin) as it has historically been a greenspace (Lansdowne hasn't), it has no other parks of its kind within a 10 mile radius (Lansdowne does), and it is surrounded by many of the densest neighbourhoods in the world (Lansdowne isn't).

While the rest of the country is building stadiums, enjoying CFL football and professional soccer, and promoting urban landscapes and neighbourhoods, we are forced into debates with painfully stubborn "activists" with very convoluted (but still thinly-veiled) plans to take something away from Ottawa that has been here for more than 100 years just to appease a very vocal minority.
I'll save you the trouble jemartin and summarize 95% of your posts with a single image:



Two words: Paranoid Scaremongering

[JFFournier]

Originally Posted by KHOOLE

JFFournier, for everyone's elucidation, exactly when was day one?

When Lansdowne Live was officially revealed. That specific question was even included on the site's FAQ.

[jemartin]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

It all seems to ring hollow. If people cared that much about Lansdowne Park, they would have stepped up years ago. Plus what's the point of you acting like a puppet master if you don't plan on taking a leading role in it? All those organizations you mentioned would have to dedicate resources to be part of this. It won't be without cost, or future corruption — it will only be hottest and most coveted board memberships in town if there is swill involved.

I am fully prepared to see it started. I am pretty sure however there are much more capable people than I to run it.

Directors get no compensation, and as a federally incorporated nonprofit/charitable, would have mandatory quarterly audits.

[jemartin]

Originally Posted by O-Town Hockey

Others have mentioned it, but I'll say it again. This is the biggest RED FLAG about the whole Lansdowne Conservancy. If these people are so passionate about Lansdowne, then why did they let it crumble to its current state. And, for that matter, what is this herritage treasure that you seem to remember? Lansdowne has been an ugly sea of concrete for the better part of a century! It served its purpose as a large facility for outdoor sports and an OHL hockey team and was appropriate for a city it's size at the time. Ottawa is now a city of almost 1.4M people and to use a plot of land this central and this prominent as a glorified local park is a terrible example of under-development and an embarassment for this city. Please don't mention Central Park again (I'm just reading your mind jemartin) as it has historically been a greenspace (Lansdowne hasn't), it has no other parks of its kind within a 10 mile radius (Lansdowne does), and it is surrounded by many of the densest neighbourhoods in the world (Lansdowne isn't).

While the rest of the country is building stadiums, enjoying CFL football and professional soccer, and promoting urban landscapes and neighbourhoods, we are forced into debates with painfully stubborn "activists" with very convoluted (but still thinly-veiled) plans to take something away from Ottawa that has been here for more than 100 years just to appease a very vocal minority.

The image more that sums up the Developers Lansdowne privatized




or the Lansdowne Park under Conservancy nonprofit management - 100% public, Maintaining a 150 year public tradition




Lansdowne Park under Conservancy nonprofit management - 100% public, Maintaining a 150 year public tradition

[Aylmer]

I still do not see why all those people are there. There aren't that many Glebites and most people have grass in their own front lawn.

[Kitchissippi]

Shouldn't this fictitious board of directors actually exist before you can make a credible proposal? Otherwise it is a house of cards

[AuxTown]

Come on dude, I don't see where the 50-storey+ towers are on this site plan???? The park component in the OSEG proposal is almost the same size as that in yours. The only difference is that their proposal gives people a reason to come to Lansdowne (unique retail opportunities, professional sports, and a modern urban landscape) while yours does not.


from http://www.ottawa.ca/residents/publi...ne_partnership

[lrt's friend]

If the stadium is full, why are there no cars in the parking lots? It makes it seem that the parking lots are grand pedestrian promenades, which they are not. This is the view of the site seen through rose colour glasses.

It seems to me that this has all been done before. Didn't the Central Canada Exhibition Association manage the park until the early 1970s?

I still don't understand how a conservancy group will be a successful retail landlord.

[jemartin]

Gnite lads and ladies.

SLeep tight and dream of $98M vs $300M

Public vs Private

$300M after 30 years vs -$200M after 30 years

Tradition and Heritage vs Towers and Privatization

CFL/NASL in a profitable environment or CFL/NASL in taxpayer debt.

Nicely scaled boutiques/restaurants vs liquor stores and multi plex

The list goes on.......


There are profitable dreams to be had, or nightmarish debt, thankfully the
choice will be clear soon enough.

Rest well, clear your minds and open up to the realities of cultural economics.

It does the soul good!

[jchamoun79]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I still don't understand how a conservancy group will be a successful retail landlord.

Or a successful venue manager/operator, for that matter. OSEG knows a thing or two about sports and entertainment. I have a hard time imagining a conservancy group would have that same expertise.

So how would the Conservancy operate Frank Clair Stadium and the Civic Centre? Would it have full-time, in-house venue management staff, or would it hire a - gasp - private management firm like SMG or Global Spectrum to book concerts and events?

[Aylmer]

J, This horse is dead.

No matter how many times you kick it, no matter how many cases you have in the Supreme Galactic court of ultimate justice,

this is one very, very dead horse.

It has passed on. Has run its course. Has joined the choir invisible. It is deceased. Kicked the bucket. Has assumed room temperature, bought the farm, departed, fell off his perch, went over the big ridge, hopped the twig, pegged out, tango uniformed, bowed his last, snuffed it, took a dirty nap, turned his toes up, is boxed, is buried... I don't know how many times so many people need to tell you that this proposal is NO MORE.

It is not resting. I can assure you, it is quite dead.







Now please, please, let it go for the sake of the other citizens of this city, for the sake of good sportsmanship and for the sake of this forum.

Please

[kwoldtimer]

Or the moderator should just close this thread until there is something real for the discussion to focus on, one way or the other. The posts for the past day suggest that this thread too should join the choir invisible, etc. etc.

[JFFournier]

Originally Posted by KHOOLE

JFFournier, for everyone's elucidation, exactly when was day one?

Here, KHOOLE, is a quote from an August 28th, 2008 Sun article:

Plan not just football
Group hoping to bring CFL to Ottawa envisions Lansdowne Park being a 'must-visit attraction'
By SHANE ROSS, SUN MEDIA

The group trying to bring CFL football back to Ottawa by 2010 will make its proposal to city staff for a redeveloped Lansdowne Park in mid- September.

"We're putting a full-court press together," said front-man Jeff Hunt. "There has been a misconception that our proposal is only about CFL football, but it is much broader than that."

[phil235]

Originally Posted by jemartin

Gnite lads and ladies.

SLeep tight and dream of $98M vs $300M

Public vs Private

$300M after 30 years vs -$200M after 30 years

Tradition and Heritage vs Towers and Privatization

CFL/NASL in a profitable environment or CFL/NASL in taxpayer debt.

Nicely scaled boutiques/restaurants vs liquor stores and multi plex

The list goes on.......


There are profitable dreams to be had, or nightmarish debt, thankfully the
choice will be clear soon enough.

Rest well, clear your minds and open up to the realities of cultural economics.

It does the soul good!

JeMartin, you claim to be interested in real debate on this issue, yet all I have seen from your is a repetition of the same lines over and over. I asked you a very direct question as follows:

"If you are truly interested in this debate, then answer a direct question - do you consider Granville Island to be "privatized"? How about Harbourfront in Toronto? Or are those public places? "

I assume you have chosen to ignore it because it doesn't fit into your black and white definition of what is public space and what is private space.

This is a key point in the debate - whether you can create a public space that includes significant private ownership. I'm giving you a real chance to actually join the discussion. Why don't you surprise everyone here and respond?