Lansdowne Park Redevelopment Phase 1 | Completed

[jemartin]

to Th Luv Doc

Not at the current price.

[jemartin]

To Jam Ph

While you are at school it might help you to understand things by reading up on a couple of things:

Municipal Act of Ontario
Good governance
Definitions of P3
The Financial Model of the Conservancy.

and for good measure, Plato's Republic and the writings of Sun Tzu.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by c_speed3108

I think there were (and still are) more problems with sparks street than just that. The federal gov doesn't make a very good retail landlord whereas outfits like Minto, Trinity, Riocan, Morguard, Viking Rideau are pros at. They give retailers what they want, whereas the government is too busy pushing overarching government policies like bilingualism. Businesses just flock where they can operate easily and successfully.

The federal government may not be a stellar landlord on Sparks but I am not sure that the requirement for (some level of) bilingualism is the biggest problem.

Businesses elsewhere in Canada and around the world do a lot better in providing bilingual services than Sparks St. (or anywhere in downtown Ottawa) does and it does not seem to be a huge burden for them.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by jemartin

To Jam Ph

While you are at school it might help you to understand things by reading up on a couple of things:

Municipal Act of Ontario

Hey, guess what? The OSEG proposal falls within municipal guidelines, legal acquisition rules, and the Master Plan for Ottawa.

Good governance

The city and OSEG are bringing football, density, entertainment, an art gallery and life back to Lansdowne while giving us a beautiful urban park. Sounds like good governance for once in this city.

Definitions of P3

I am fully aware of a Public-Private Partnership, and this development again falls within that category.

The Financial Model of the Conservancy.

Unproven, unstable and unsuitable.

and for good measure, Plato's Republic and the writings of Sun Tzu.

And they have WHAT to do with Lansdowne, exactly?

[reidjr]

I hope i am wrong but i have a feeling if this was the other way around and someone wanted to build a park these aginst oseg would welcome it with open arms.

[Ottawan]

Originally Posted by jemartin

To Jam Ph

While you are at school it might help you to understand things by reading up on a couple of things:

Municipal Act of Ontario
Good governance
Definitions of P3
The Financial Model of the Conservancy.

and for good measure, Plato's Republic and the writings of Sun Tzu.

Boy are you going to look foolish with your false sense of superiority when your dispute, if it makes it's way to a court, is thrown out for being frivolous or vexatious.

[jemartin]

Originally Posted by Ottawan

Boy are you going to look foolish with your false sense of superiority when your dispute, if it makes it's way to a court, is thrown out for being frivolous or vexatious.

It would help if you understood the legal terminology.

Secondly if there was a basis for that, which obviously there is not, do you not think the group at the City pushing this would have already had their paid external counsel from BLG bring a motion on same?

Scheduling for the JR should be out some time today.

But that is not my fight, there are many thousands behind that one.

[reidjr]

Originally Posted by jemartin

It would help if you understood the legal terminology.

Secondly if there was a basis for that, which obviously there is not, do you not think the group at the City pushing this would have already had their paid external counsel from BLG bring a motion on same?

Scheduling for the JR should be out some time today.

But that is not my fight, there are many thousands behind that one.

Really many thousands i find that hard to beleave.Look at most sites 90% are for the oseg bid listen to most call in shows 85% are for the oseg bid its rare to find people that are really supporters of rejecting the bid.

[K-133]

Originally Posted by jemartin

It would help if you understood the legal terminology.

Secondly if there was a basis for that, which obviously there is not, do you not think the group at the City pushing this would have already had their paid external counsel from BLG bring a motion on same?

Scheduling for the JR should be out some time today.

But that is not my fight, there are many thousands behind that one.

This just makes makes me think of that article posted here just last week.

"Firestone, why didn't you try to develop Lansdowne?"
"Because Glebe has the highest proportion of lawyers. It would have taken too long just to get it approved."

*sigh*

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by jemartin

The CFL at Lansdowne has its best chance with the Conservancy. The developer proposal faces years of legal challenges. The Conservancy however faces no such obstacles. The Conservancy is a competitive bid under the rules so meets the procurement test. It is more beneficial to the taxpayer, so in addition meets the overall guiding principal of good faith. It meets all heritage aspects so precludes intervention by the Ministry. The Conservancy bid falls within the Official Plan so no OMB challenges. The Conservancy option requires no rezoning and is available immediately with a 30 month timeline with stadium.

The alternative for the the development partners is to withdraw their bid and to develop their density at Bayview with a new stadium.

In that scenario Lansdowne would be developed in 27 months only with just the North Stands and promote amateur sport and have CFL training allowing front office synergy for Jeff Hunt. Game day would be at Bayview.

I have highlighted 3 things because they make important points.

The first is simply black mail and obstructing the democratic process. Since when should legal process override democracy?

The second is only true after the project is refined. The Lansdowne Live proposal took 3 years before we are ready for the shovel in the ground. So, we can add 3 years to a switch to a Conservancy plan which will need to be refined and go through many city council votes.

The third is simply hypocritical. After all the bellyaching about the competitive process, we need to withdraw the only other bid on the books so that the Conservancy also has exclusive access to redevelop Lansdowne?

When I look at the Conservancy proposal, I just wonder how it can possibly be successful. We have three buildings on site that have remained mostly vacant for decades. How in the world do these buildings scattered on a large site suddenly become magnets for people? I just don't see how they could be successful on their own for retail.

[citizen j]

After briefly taking jemartin off my ignore list to see if anything had changed, I see that nothing has.
<enter>

[jemartin]

Originally Posted by reidjr

Really many thousands i find that hard to beleave.Look at most sites 90% are for the oseg bid listen to most call in shows 85% are for the oseg bid its rare to find people that are really supporters of rejecting the bid.

Do you honestly believe those results reflect anything other than your interest group?

According to CFRA Andy Haydon was going to win the Mayoralty race.

Put out a head to head information brochure with the Conservancy design and 100% public taxpayer advantage with the developer towers in the same brochure and their 50% private taxpayer cost message.

Have that information followed up with three polls, Ipsos, Nik Nanos, Leger, or Gallop.

Ensure the accuracy is within the traditional +/- 5% and have broad samples.

My prediction is that the results would be 80% in favor of the Conservancy bid.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by jemartin

Do you honestly believe those results reflect anything other than your interest group?

Pot, ocne again meet kettle. I believe you two are more than acquianted by now.

According to CFRA Andy Haydon was going to win the Mayoralty race.

yeah, also according to CFRA, Liberals are evil and immigrants are destroying Canada.

REAL news had predicted what many of us here knew all along; that Watson would win the race. The Ottawa Citizen, Ottawa Sun AND CTV News all predicted that Watson would win the race for mayor.

Put out a head to head information brochure with the Conservancy design and 100% public taxpayer advantage with the developer towers in the same brochure and their 50% private taxpayer cost message.

Have that information followed up with three polls, Ipsos, Nik Nanos, Leger, or Gallop.

Ensure the accuracy is within the traditional +/- 5% and have broad samples.

Those very sources and numbers are more or less what happened during the election and for the Lansdowne Live bid.

My prediction is that the results would be 80% in favor of the Conservancy bid.

Do you function as a bingo machine? Because you certainly seem to be pulling a lot of numbers out of your ass.

You have no real way of backing up your numbers or "predictions".

[jemartin]

LRT's Friend:

The fact of years of litigation is not something threatened, it is a fact confirmed by City Solicitor Rick O'Connor.

If you think going to court is somehow not part of a free society then I am not sure what country you live in. And if you believe the council vote is democratic you are off your rocker. They have broken their own laws, acted in bad faith and are consciously acting in the best interests of an advantaged few instead of the majority they were voted to represent. Lets not even start with the 2006 developer campaign contributions and voting patterns.

With two competing bids the best value will be chosen. The guidelines have been established and both bids meet them, only one has a significant advantage to the taxpayer.

[reidjr]

Originally Posted by jemartin

LRT's Friend:

The fact of years of litigation is not something threatened, it is a fact confirmed by City Solicitor Rick O'Connor.

If you think going to court is somehow not part of a free society then I am not sure what country you live in. And if you believe the council vote is democratic you are off your rocker. They have broken their own laws, acted in bad faith and are consciously acting in the best interests of an advantaged few instead of the majority they were voted to represent. Lets not even start with the 2006 developer campaign contributions and voting patterns.

With two competing bids the best value will be chosen. The guidelines have been established and both bids meet them, only one has a significant advantage to the taxpayer.

Can you understand this is going down a very slippery slope going aginst the will of the majority.

[jemartin]

Like I said, show me a proper poll with the two competing bids and I will show you overwhelming support for the Conservancy.

Are the vast majority in favour of making Lansdowne beautiful? Absolutely.

Are they in love with having it privatized and having their taxes go up? Probably not.

Would they love to see a development that respects heritage, returns all site revenue surplus to the taxpayer, keeps and continues the 150 year tradition of a public space, adds prestige to our nation's capital, maintains a full farmers market, promotes local entrepreneurs not international conglomerates,
decreases traffic congestion and increases quality of life?

More than likely yes.

It is pretty clear that many here are so bound and determined to work for the developers your rational thinking is gone.

In the meantime a challenge to anyone who can explain the OSEG financial model.

My bet is not a single person here has any idea. You don't even have a clear idea what you are arguing for.

[reidjr]

Originally Posted by jemartin

Like I said, show me a proper poll with the two competing bids and I will show you overwhelming support for the Conservancy.

Are the vast majority in favour of making Lansdowne beautiful? Absolutely.

Are they in love with having it privatized and having their taxes go up? Probably not.

Would they love to see a development that respects heritage, returns all site revenue surplus to the taxpayer, keeps and continues the 150 year tradition of a public space, adds prestige to our nation's capital, maintains a full farmers market, promotes local entrepreneurs not international conglomerates,
decreases traffic congestion and increases quality of life?

More than likely yes.

It is pretty clear that many here are so bound and determined to work for the developers your rational thinking is gone.

In the meantime a challenge to anyone who can explain the OSEG financial model.

My bet is not a single person here has any idea. You don't even have a clear idea what you are arguing for.

There have been polls where at the best its been 50-50 one of the ipos polls showed 69% in favor of the oseg bid.I agree with you on the box stores and retail i am aginst that.My big fear right now is there are people wanting a park no arena no farmers market etc.

[Ottawan]

Originally Posted by jemartin

It would help if you understood the legal terminology.

Secondly if there was a basis for that, which obviously there is not, do you not think the group at the City pushing this would have already had their paid external counsel from BLG bring a motion on same?

Scheduling for the JR should be out some time today.

But that is not my fight, there are many thousands behind that one.

I was talking about where you are intending to take your fight (re procurement) not their fight (re lame duck). Although if you read the memo sent by BLG (which was leaked to the Bulldog) they do not seem to have a very strong case either.

In any case, my very strong prediction remains that both suits will fail, because neither you, nor the group making the lame duck argument, have a strong legal argument. Of course this is an armchair prediction, and only time will tell if I'm right.

[jemartin]

Originally Posted by Ottawan

I was talking about where you are intending to take your fight (re procurement) not their fight (re lame duck). Although if you read the memo sent by BLG (which was leaked to the Bulldog) they do not seem to have a very strong case either.

In any case, my very strong prediction remains that both suits will fail, because neither you, nor the group making the lame duck argument, have a strong legal argument. Of course this is an armchair prediction, and only time will tell if I'm right.

I have no litigation before the city.

However if I were to make a prediction, the new council will drop the developer proposal before it even makes it to court.

[reidjr]

Originally Posted by jemartin

I have no litigation before the city.

However if I were to make a prediction, the new council will drop the developer proposal before it even makes it to court.

You really beleave that a council that supports the oseg more then the last council.