Calgary Public Transit II

[mersar]

Originally Posted by atlas_inc

Stupid question time: How many square feet is a single C-Train car? Anyone have a link to the company that builds them with some dimensions?

For the U2:

Length: 24.4m
Width: 2.65m

For the SD160:

Length: 24.82m
Width: 2.65m

from http://www.calgarytransit.com/html/technical_information.html

That of course is the sizes of the body including the operator cabs (which are about a meter or so on both ends). The walls aren't that thick so they'd barely impact the square footage.

[srperrycgy]

One of the sources of CTrain problems this morning:

• Video Link

D40LF stuck on the outbound track between SAIT and Lions Park, with no tow trucks available.

[mersar]

Originally Posted by srperrycgy

One of the sources of CTrain problems this morning:

D40LF stuck on the outbound track between SAIT and Lions Park, with no tow trucks available.

Ah. I had heard it was a train vs bus, but a stuck bus is a bit more believable.

Later on in the morning it sounded like a train then broke down in the 16th Avenue tunnel after they had cleared that first incident. I caught the 19 from Centre Street and we bypassed dodging down to 14th ave to Lions Park due to whatever the issue at the moment was.

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by Robert in Calgary

Good God No!!

I would say this approach is completely unreasonable and a serious waste of money.

Request an increase in the gas tax to generate more money.

Going to Douglas Glen is the common sense compromise.

Robert, the sad thing is we already have a provincial gas tax to pay for transit

[UofC.engineer]

I understand the green TRIP money is for commuters living outside of Calgary but if we don't upgrade the SE BRT or construct the LRT to Douglasdale the system won't be built until 2025+.

Here are the facts:

1.Stelmach doesn't want to give the city any more money for transit projects.

2. An LRT from Douglasdale ending at 10th street is kind of useless and will probably cost $800 million.

It is easy for all of you to say " build it once funding is secured" if you don't live SE.

[Ferreth]

I've been thinking a bit how to improve the current SE BRT service. One thing would be to have a dedicated lane for the bus. I was thinking - perhaps Ogden road between Glenmore and Blackfoot, and possible extensions out from either end could be turned into a lane reversal, with 1 center lane being a dedicated bus lane. I've driven this many, many times and I know the room is there, and the car traffic can live on one less lane. I'd say for this to work, you'd have to eliminate most stops as well - leave one in Bonnybrook and one in Ogden, to keep the bus from having to cross a lane of traffic to get to the curb all the time.

You might have a fight in Ogden proper, where you'd have to give up parking on one side of the road to create an extra lane for the bus. As far as extensions, go, I see no reason you couldn't extend this down 24th St. south of Glenmore, especially if the city were to go ahead and build the long planned connection between Ogden and and 24th, building it right away with a bus lane in mind.

A variation on this might be having a HOV lane that alternates sides morning to evening to give the buses a more traffic free run in the prevalent direction of travel.

Thoughts? (The evil part of me is hoping you guys can totally shoot this down as right now this is my backup easy route to/from work when traffic is bad)

[Robert in Calgary]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

Robert, the sad thing is we already have a provincial gas tax to pay for transit

Yes, The provincial is 9 cents. I fully support raising it. (by 10-12 cents) I believe the federal is still 5 cents.

Metro Vancouver is fighting over its funding options.

Property Tax
Gas Tax
Carbon Tax, which is another tax on gas and other fuels
Bridge Tolls
Vehicle Registration Fee by whatever name you want to call it.

For Calgary, the biggest bang is likely going to come from the gas tax unless we add a large "Transit Infrastructure Fee" to each vehicle registered.

How many vehicles are registered in Calgary? 1 million?

[Robert in Calgary]

Originally Posted by Ferreth

You might have a fight in Ogden proper, where you'd have to give up parking on one side of the road to create an extra lane for the bus.

Thoughts? (The evil part of me is hoping you guys can totally shoot this down as right now this is my backup easy route to/from work when traffic is bad)

As someone who lives in Ogden, my view is....start building the LRT to Douglas Glen.

We've had the BRT for over a year now. I will likely go to council on Monday to have my say and I will challenge them to come out to Ogden Road, to 18th Street, to 76th Avenue and just watch the endless stream of traffic every morning and afternoon. Hour after hour.

Calgary needs a serious 20-25 year plan to build lots of LRT and it's time to start grabbing the money to do so.

[para transit fellow]

Just because there is a gas tax doesn't mean the Government of Alberta funds transit. Indeed Alberta Transportation has stated several times that they don't want to be associated with facilitating transit.

[MalcolmTucker]

Half of the gas tax goes to the city. The city uses this to fund transit. Therefor: the gas tax funds transit.

[MonctonGoldenFlames]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

It is easy for all of you to say " build it once funding is secured" if you don't live SE.

no, it's easy to say because it's common sense.

[MalcolmTucker]

A report that was done for Toronto on the economics of trolley buses:
Dr. Soberman’s report

Long story short, for now if you take into account cost of capital, trolley buses aren't worth it. With Calgary however to the capital budget if there aren't LRT projects that could use the money, it might be worth it. Not worth it to borrow money to do it however.

[Radley77]

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

A report that was done for Toronto on the economics of trolley buses:
Dr. Soberman’s report

Long story short, for now if you take into account cost of capital, trolley buses aren't worth it. With Calgary however to the capital budget if there aren't LRT projects that could use the money, it might be worth it. Not worth it to borrow money to do it however.

My understanding was that the amortization was calculated "based on straight line depreciation (that is, a constant annual costs based on service life) with no allowance for interest."

One of the things I am kinda suprised by is that they assumed that the service life of the bus, electrification system and maintenance facility were all 30 years from Table 5.3. I wouldn't think the maintenance facility would have to be entirely rebuilt every 30 years?

[MalcolmTucker]

I think the assumption was the maintenance facility cost was the marginal cost over a conventional facility since the Toronto case involved retrofiring an existing garage ( I haven't read teh report in depth yet so correct me if I am wrong).

The report does have some holes, just like any one would. A Toronto transit buff talks about the problems with it here.

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by MonctonGoldenFlames

no, it's easy to say because it's common sense.

Haha, hey man, let's not get outta hand here.

I just think a commuter travelling from Mckenzie Towne to Downtown using CT should be able to do so in 30 minutes or less.

The distance between the two destinations is about 16.5km as the crow flys.

Is this unreasonable?

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

Haha, hey man, let's not get outta hand here.

I just think a commuter travelling from Mckenzie Towne to Downtown using CT should be able to do so in 30 minutes or less.

The distance between the two destinations is about 16.5km as the crow flys.

Is this unreasonable?

Even on the finished LRT that time is optimistic methinks. Building too good of a BRT facility to the SE will inevitably slow down the timeline for a LRT. BRT can support up to 10,000 ppdph - at what point do we kick all those people off their transit route for two years or more while we convert the line to save tens of millions in operating costs? Or will taxpayers be stuck with higher fares and taxes due to higher average operating costs per user?

BRT is seductive, but there is a reason it is cheap - you pay for it in operational costs.

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

Even on the finished LRT that time is optimistic methinks. Building too good of a BRT facility to the SE will inevitably slow down the timeline for a LRT. BRT can support up to 10,000 ppdph - at what point do we kick all those people off their transit route for two years or more while we convert the line to save tens of millions in operating costs? Or will taxpayers be stuck with higher fares and taxes due to higher average operating costs per user?

BRT is seductive, but there is a reason it is cheap - you pay for it in operational costs.

Yea, that is true, BRT is definatley not the 'End all Be All' solution. We would all like to see the LRT to the SE be built.

Guess we'll all have to wait...

[UofC.engineer]

On Tuesday I went to the SW BRT open house at Southland leisure centre.

The overall plan:

1. Bus only lane will start at Southland drive and then head north up 14th street

2. Both North/South lanes will run on the west side on 14th St

3. A Bus only underpass at 90th ave

4. Bus lanes on Glenmore and Crowchild

5. Stops at Mount Royal

6. Rough estimates price it at $30-50 million

Let's hear what you guys think

[MalcolmTucker]

I would rather use priority at 90th instead of an underpass. The stuff north of Heritage will be useful for a very long time (beyond full build out of the currently planned LRT network), but south of there I wouldn't want to invest too much when we might not need it in 15 years. The turning phase for 90th is relatively short and you can deal with access to Glenmore Landing and the backup on 14th due to transit priority in a cheaper way I would think.

I think it is rather dangerous they are talking about designs before we have ridership and time savings in the public eye (and a survey of existing users in the area). You don't debottleneck a refinery randomly - and you shouldn't plan transit the same way.

[Koolfire]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

3. A Bus only underpass at 90th ave

Let's hear what you guys think

Build an interchange and do it right from the start. Seriously, it's either a 2 lane underpass or 2 lane bridge over 14th similar to 12th St NE over Memorial but shorter. The cost difference would be marginal.