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  #2641  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2010, 8:35 AM
Tempe_Duck Tempe_Duck is offline
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Lisa Love has said on a few occasions as long as she's around ASU football will always be played between the buttes. If the stadium does have to be demo'd and rebuilt, that location should be kept, its amazing.

ASU could play at UofP for a few years during the rebuilding phases. The stadium would likely be rebuilt with a lower capacity (60K with maybe some expandable sections). I imagine it would also open to the North to provide views of the Lake & Papago Park/the Mountains, that would be awesome.

I do hope a large open grassy park space is eventually constructed that connects SDS to Tempe Town Lake. ASU has the potential to create something in that area that rivals the legendary Ole Miss Grove if these plans are done right.

E: Also I wonder if USA Basketball would perhaps move to part of this complex since I believe their planned moved to Glendale is currently dead.

I didn't hear that but I am glad that is the attitude of the University. I would love something like The Grove at Ole Miss that ties into Tempe Town Lake. I think something like that is on the ASU comprehensive development plan. Views to the north would be great.

I agree SDS is a bit large for the crowds ASU attracts on a normal basis, but they have been known to fill it recently. Look at the Georgia game, she was filled to the brim. I would LOVE ASU to get to the point where a sell out at SDS is the norm and not the exception but that is an entirely different conversation.
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  #2642  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2010, 8:57 AM
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^There's been no official talk that I know of re: the grass/tailgating/Grove like area. However if you look at many of the original plans for the Town Lake and further back to the Rio Salado project a great lawn extending North from SDS to the lakefront is in those plans.

I've even seen plans/models (they have one in the ASU architecture building) showing a grassy area North of SDS connecting to a pedestrian bridge to an island in the middle of the river, then another bridge and series of paths continuing North and connecting to Papago Park- that would be awesome.

I too wish ASU could fill 75K on a normal basis, sadly I just don't think thats realistic in this market anymore. ASU was once the king of Saturday night but I'm not sure that'll ever be the case again. UofP Stadium is 63,400 and expandable up to 72,200...I think a model like that or maybe just a hair smaller (60-->70) would be best for a new SDS.

It'll also be interesting to see how they do the demo with the Carson Athletic Center there. Those offices and weight room facilities are all pretty new and I know the Athletic facilities are pretty state of the art. I'd imagine they'd want to preserve that building and work it into the replacement.
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  #2643  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2010, 5:54 PM
Tempe_Duck Tempe_Duck is offline
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Hoover,

Your probably right on filling the stadium an 60k expandable to 70k easily sounds like a good idea. Epically if they put the seats right on the filed like Oregon. Design the stadium to funnel the noise down to field level so that even when it isn't full it gets loud.

How would an island work? that could be something cool.
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  #2644  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2010, 6:48 PM
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^All of the original schemes for Rio Salado from the 1960s through the 90s had an island somewhere in the middle with connecting pedestrian bridges. When they finally got serious about constructing the lake, it was deemed too expensive and VE'd out of the project.

Personally I think it would have been amazing.
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  #2645  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2010, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by plinko View Post
^All of the original schemes for Rio Salado from the 1960s through the 90s had an island somewhere in the middle with connecting pedestrian bridges. When they finally got serious about constructing the lake, it was deemed too expensive and VE'd out of the project.

Personally I think it would have been amazing.
Since you're our resident Architect (though I suppose this isn't architecture per se, more engineering) how possible do you think it would be to ever add back that design in the future? Would they have to empty the lake to do it (if so, just recently would've been the great time had they the money)?

Obviously it would be pricey, but perhaps possible if done in conjunction w/ a big vision like what Crow is throwing out there.

EDIT: VV Yah it would be a great link in a regional 'turquoise necklace' parks connection sort of plan.

Last edited by HooverDam; Nov 21, 2010 at 9:10 PM.
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  #2646  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2010, 9:03 PM
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It wouldn't be that hard. In fact it would be easier than when they add landfill in places like NYC, Boston, SF because there aren't any currents in the lake. Beyond that it's just bridge building.

I'd really like to see it happen.
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  #2647  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2010, 12:15 AM
bwonger06 bwonger06 is offline
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I wish the city expanded the lake past Priest but I don't see any kind of lake expansion (besides the current pedestrian bridge), especially after the army engineers spent millions to redo the marsh land and reestablished natural habitats in the area right next to the art museum.
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  #2648  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2010, 7:00 AM
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Originally Posted by bwonger06 View Post
I wish the city expanded the lake past Priest but I don't see any kind of lake expansion (besides the current pedestrian bridge), especially after the army engineers spent millions to redo the marsh land and reestablished natural habitats in the area right next to the art museum.
Agreed, I would love to see that, but don't see it happening any time soon. As for the patch of green from SDS to the lake, will that mean that Rio Salado Pkwy will have to be elevated?
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  #2649  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2010, 8:13 AM
Tempe_Duck Tempe_Duck is offline
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Agreed, I would love to see that, but don't see it happening any time soon. As for the patch of green from SDS to the lake, will that mean that Rio Salado Pkwy will have to be elevated?
I think they would lower Rio. I can't see them building a green belt/park and then building a 4-6 lane bridge over it.
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  #2650  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2010, 6:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Butta View Post
Agreed, I would love to see that, but don't see it happening any time soon. As for the patch of green from SDS to the lake, will that mean that Rio Salado Pkwy will have to be elevated?
Again let me try to make this clear, there are no plans for such a park, its just something Im wishing and hoping for. It was in the old original Rio Salado plans, so it could be brought back, but as of this moment I don't know that its being looked into.
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  #2651  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2010, 1:10 AM
ciweiss ciweiss is offline
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I was thinking what might be cool is if/when Tempe builds that dam by TCA they could expand the lake eastward. How cool would it to be if the lake went all the way up toward Mesa Riverview. Put Condos and apartments next to it (north side of 202). Soon you will have the Cubs down there and perhaps a big waterpark. Put a bike trail that goes from priest to Mesa Riverview. I know that is in the plans but it will be cool when that is done. How cool would it to be when the wife goes shopping you could rent a boat and fish for a while around those bridges. Also PLEASE put a COSTCO at Tempe Marketplace. Also - why not have the tempe trolly go from Mill to Tempe Marketplace to Mesa Riverview. This area could really be happening in the near future. If they do it right...
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  #2652  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2010, 5:47 AM
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^Id definitely like to see the Tempe trolley eventually expand eastward along Rio Salado, out to Riverview for the Cubs/shopping/potential water park would be fantastic.

Also since we're dreamin', I always thought that huge undeveloped land the Indians own on the NW corner of the 101/202 interchange would be an ideal spot for a theme park. Its got great freeway access, is very visible, could interact with the lake somehow, etc.
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  #2653  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2010, 3:39 PM
Leo the Dog Leo the Dog is offline
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Originally Posted by plinko View Post
^All of the original schemes for Rio Salado from the 1960s through the 90s had an island somewhere in the middle with connecting pedestrian bridges. When they finally got serious about constructing the lake, it was deemed too expensive and VE'd out of the project.

Personally I think it would have been amazing.
There is a really cool model to scale in ASU's college of design building (?), its the building where landscape architects have class. Right off of University and Forrest. What Tempe got, compared to what was dreamed up is sad.

It was a project by ASU kids back in the day, from what I heard anyways.
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  #2654  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2010, 7:53 AM
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Tempe begins design of veterans memorial
Posted: Sunday, December 5, 2010 10:00 am | Updated: 1:19 pm, Mon Dec 6, 2010.
Garin Groff, Tribune


Tempe is designing the first element of a memorial to veterans that its supporters say is among the most ambitious monuments of its kind in the nation.

The $2.1 million memorial will include 80 metal silhouette panels that represent soldiers of each service through U.S. history. While Arizona has monuments to specific military conflicts, this is likely the only one dedicated to every group of the nation’s veterans, said David Lucier, president of the Tempe Veterans Foundation.

The foundation will raise most of the funding and expects to draw interest locally and nationally because of the monument’s scale, Lucier said.

“I’m a little biased, but I think it’s an easy claim that this will be the finest veterans memorial outside of Washington, D.C.,” Lucier said.

The memorial project at Tempe Beach Park will include restoration of the Ash Avenue Bridge, which is fenced off and deteriorating. The bridge’s top will become a new overview of the Tempe Town Lake, while the inside will eventually become an enclosed museum or visitors center. A large plaza will eventually round out the memorial.

The first phase includes restoring the bridge and creating a walkway between the elevation changes.

Tempe approved about $79,000 last month to design that phase, and the foundation will kick off fundraising efforts in January for the roughly $400,000 project.

The timeline for completing two other phases depends upon the pace of fundraising. Tempe will contribute about $500,000 to the various phases.

The park is already home to the city’s Veterans Day Parade and the Healing Field display, which includes 3,000 flags to honor those who died in the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.

The memorial field will attract visitors who just want to see it but also those who are already at Tempe Beach Park for other events or features, said Nancy Ryan, Rio Salado manager. She figures it could draw 50,000 to 100,000 visitors a year or more.

The reuse of the bridge and the memorial’s placement within a park is part of Tempe’s strategy of triangulation within open spaces, Ryan said.

“You find three or more things to do in one location and then you keep building,” she said. “You come for one thing and you stay for another. Those types of opportunities bring people back again and again.”

The memorial has been planned for years. The city considered a 32-foot tall metal monument to veterans at College Avenue and Veterans Way, a street that was renamed in anticipation of locating the feature there. But the city searched for a new site in 2006, after concerns over noise from an adjacent transit station. Also, the Gila River Indian Community objected because the memorial would have been at the base of Hayden Butte, which the tribe has considered sacred for centuries.

Lucier said years of proposals for a memorial never led to consensus from supporters, but that the current plan clicked with about 30 community members involved.

“I don’t think that had happened before,” Lucier said.

The bridge improvements will restore a rich piece of Valley history. The Ash Avenue Bridge was begun in 1911, with labor from the Arizona Territorial Prison. It opened in 1913 as the first major highway bridge across the Salt River, but the narrow span was immediately obsolete because it was designed for wagons more than for autos. The bridge last carried vehicles in 1931, when the Mill Avenue Bridge opened. A flood seriously damaged a span of the Ash bridge in 1916, and it was demolished in 1991 because of the cost of repairing the bridge. The remains are on the National Register of Historic Places.

http://www.ahwatukee.com/news/valley_and...d-522f-a19a-01e3b1d4a437.html?mode=story
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  #2655  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2010, 10:43 PM
HX_Guy HX_Guy is offline
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Just to clarify...a streetcar is like light rail with the only difference being that it shares the street with cars (no separate right of way) and has more frequent stops, right?

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Streetcars may fulfill Tempe desires
Phoenix Business Journal
Date: Thursday, December 9, 2010, 1:46pm MST

A modern streetcar just got the green light to cruise Mill Avenue between Southern Avenue and Rio Salado Parkway in Tempe.
Metro, which operates bus and light rail service in the region, got the go-ahead from The Maricopa Association of Governments to move on the 2.6-mile project.
The project stems from a three-year study that evaluated high-capacity transit options for Tempe and Chandler. The study also calls for a bus rapid transit line on Rural Road, connecting Tempe and Chandler.
Proposition 400, a countywide, half-cent transportation sales tax renewed by voters in 2004, will help fund the $160 million streetcar project, while Metro applies for a federal grant.
“The streetcar will connect a large number of our residents to light rail while creating an important connection between our neighborhoods and downtown,” said Tempe Councilmember and Metro board member Shana Ellis. “The recently built streetcar projects in Portland and Seattle have demonstrated that empty storefronts and retail centers are reinvigorated, bringing new and desired amenities to neighborhoods and creating a thriving pedestrian environment.”
Construction is slated to begin in 2013 and operations in 2016.


Read more: Streetcars may fulfill Tempe desires | Phoenix Business Journal
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  #2656  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2010, 11:21 PM
exit2lef exit2lef is offline
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Just to clarify...a streetcar is like light rail with the only difference being that it shares the street with cars (no separate right of way) and has more frequent stops, right?
A few other differences:

-- smaller station infrastructure, more like bus shelters
-- single car trains rather than two or three-car trains

I like to think of it as "ultralight rail," and I'm not really sure how I feel about the Tempe plan. Unlike the Central Mesa extension, which will have park-and-rides and extend the reach of the successful 20-mile starter line, this seems more like a little spur built mainly with the hope of catalyzing economic development. I'm always wary of transit projects that focus first on development benefits. Those benefits occur -- just look at Apache Boulevard -- but I see them more as secondary effects after building transit that actually gets people effectively from one point to another.

Of course, it didn't have to be this way. If Scottsdale actually wanted light rail within its borders, there would probably be enough critical mass to support a full-fledged north-south light rail line from the Scottsdale Airpark to Chandler. With Scottsdale unwilling to play, though, Tempe had to go with an option that it alone could support, and the numbers pointed to modern streetcar and BRT over light rail.
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  #2657  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2010, 11:05 PM
AJphx AJphx is offline
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Guess there are two options. Demolish and rebuild it in the current location or they could build it on the lake.
I meant specifically if they built a new stadium on the lake as was mentioned in the article. That would leave the current stadium on the butte, so I was just wondering what the planners are thinking. It is such a landmark and great setting I can't believe they would demolish it or seriously consider that. So would they leave it idle or use as a practice field or modified for some other sport? That was basically the gist of what I was thinking.
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  #2658  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2010, 2:29 AM
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I meant specifically if they built a new stadium on the lake as was mentioned in the article.
Lisa Love has said a few times before that ASU football will always be played between the Buttes as long as she's around. If ASU demolishes SDS entirely or does a major renovation (like what Stanford did) and needs another home for a few years they could always play at UofP in the meantime and temporarily move the Insight Bowl back to Chase Field.

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Of course, it didn't have to be this way. If Scottsdale actually wanted light rail within its borders, there would probably be enough critical mass to support a full-fledged north-south light rail line from the Scottsdale Airpark to Chandler. With Scottsdale unwilling to play, though, Tempe had to go with an option that it alone could support, and the numbers pointed to modern streetcar and BRT over light rail.
Indeed, a LRT line from the Airpark all the way South to Chandler Blvd then East past Chandler Fashion and to Arizona Ave (Downtown Chandler) would've been terrific. Then it could've eventually continued East to ASU Poly & Phx Mesa Gateway and on the North end gone up to Mayo to connect to the Cine Capri, Mayo Clinic, MIM, Desert Ridge & CityNorth.
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  #2659  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2010, 8:13 AM
Leo the Dog Leo the Dog is offline
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I don't know, thats a huge area to cover for LRT that covers some areas that are very suburban if not rural. (ie, south rural rd around Warner Rd).

I fully support LRT, but that would be billions of dollars to basically cover 2 arterial thoroughfares of Chandler Blvd and Rural Rd. Probably better to expand off the starter line in the core, IMO, of course.

This is coming from an ex East-Valley-ite with Tempe, Chandler, Scottsdale roots.
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  #2660  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2010, 9:35 PM
exit2lef exit2lef is offline
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Originally Posted by Leo the Dog View Post
I don't know, thats a huge area to cover for LRT that covers some areas that are very suburban if not rural. (ie, south rural rd around Warner Rd).

I fully support LRT, but that would be billions of dollars to basically cover 2 arterial thoroughfares of Chandler Blvd and Rural Rd. Probably better to expand off the starter line in the core, IMO, of course.

This is coming from an ex East-Valley-ite with Tempe, Chandler, Scottsdale roots.
I can't think of much territory along that route that is still rural. I can think of numerous people I know who live in places like Gilbert or Chandler and commute to offices in north Scottsdale. I think there would be more than enough demand to justify a full north-south light rail line to complement the existing east-west one. If only Scottsdale would get over its separatist ways and its outmoded "West's Most Western Town" slogan, we might now be planning such a north-south light rail line instead of setting for modern streetcar over a few miles of Tempe.
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