Lansdowne Park Redevelopment Phase 1 | Completed

[c_speed3108]

Originally Posted by Radster

Looking good, but I am not sold on the South Side stand. First, the wood finish is IMO a terrible choice, as it will require high maintenance cost, and have a short lifespan, why not use some sort of polycarbonate material and be in touch with the current times? Also, the South Side stands lack a proper roof, as only a small part of the stands are covered, this again is a fail. Take a look around the world at new stadiums, its one of the main factors in design - a roof which covers most, if not all the seats.

I also think they should build small east and west stands, instead of leaving that space empty and using it only for big events, lets close the stadium and make it world class by having stands all around.

I agree on the wood and the roof.

The first plan had endzone seats. The problem for football is no one really wants endzone seats so even at a cheap price you get practically nothing for them and they still sit empty. This was why the current south side upper deck was built in the first place - the criticism that Lansdowne lacked sufficient seats between the goal lines. After the 88 Grey Cup the end zones completely disappeared as they were not need. A couple of the rough rider and renegades owners tried end zone seats in various forms....the last being the Beaver Lodge restaurant, but nothing was terribly successful.

The other problem with end zone seats is that they make it considerably more difficult to add temporary seating there for a big event like the Grey Cup.

I think it will still look good provided the city does not use the end zone area as storage space for old pieces of concrete and various other junk this time.

[Radster]

Good points, I didn't think of what you said. I was basing my opinion on soccer stadiums as I am not much of an American/Canadian Football fan. So from a soccer perspective, stadiums with seating behind the goal lines are standard, and are a big factor in the overall atmosphere of a soccer match. But since in this case, the stadium will probably attract more fans for football than soccer, I can see the logic behind leaving the end zones empty.

Lets hope the design of the South Stands is subject to change, or is it already final?

[isaidso]

Maybe one day the north stand will be demolished and rebuilt to 'match' the south stand. It looks like there's enough space to move the position of the field north and lower the field in the future. That would allow for another lower tier of about 8,000 if it wrapped all the way around. It would be a preferable way to add capacity down the road and still allow for temporary end zone seats to be added at grade for Grey Cups if the berm is maintained.

How many seats will the new south stands hold vs. the old north stands. 12,000 vs 12,000 for a total of 24,000?

[c_speed3108]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Maybe one day the north stand will be demolished and rebuilt to 'match' the south stand. It looks like there's enough space to move the position of the field north and lower the field in the future. That would allow for another lower tier of about 8,000 if it wrapped all the way around. It would be a preferable way to add capacity down the road and still allow for temporary end zone seats to be added at grade for Grey Cups if the berm is maintained.

How many seats will the new south stands hold vs. the old north stands. 12,000 vs 12,000 for a total of 24,000?

The north side should retain more or less it's current capacity give or take: 14,542. Might lose a bit if they put a few more private suites at the top or something.

That would mean the south would have about 10K or so.

For reference the old south stands held:
South side lower stands 6,414
South side upper stands 7,870

For soccer it would be nice to have some sort of endzone seats on wheels since an endzone that is 20 years from the back of the goal isn't much fun either.

[Aylmer]

Hey! JMartin is on the Radio!

[citizen j]

Hmm, how do I activate the "ignore" button on my radio again?

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

Trinity has some more images up on their site... that 5th/Clegg pedestrian bridge in the render looks pretty cool
http://www.trinity-group.com/?q=node/458





1st level


2nd level

So the white is residential? Strange some units will have be 1st floor residential 2nd floor commerical?

[c_speed3108]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

So the white is residential? Strange some units will have be 1st floor residential 2nd floor commerical?

Seems to me to be mostly just fire stairs...

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

So the white is residential? Strange some units will have be 1st floor residential 2nd floor commerical?

Live/work units perhaps?

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by c_speed3108

The north side should retain more or less it's current capacity give or take: 14,542. Might lose a bit if they put a few more private suites at the top or something.

That would mean the south would have about 10K or so.

For reference the old south stands held:
South side lower stands 6,414
South side upper stands 7,870

For soccer it would be nice to have some sort of endzone seats on wheels since an endzone that is 20 years from the back of the goal isn't much fun either.

Thanks, I've been trying to get that information for a very long time, with no luck. Since the new stadium capacity will be almost 24,000 seats, the new south stands look to hold 9,500. That's really quite small.

[Radster]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Thanks, I've been trying to get that information for a very long time, with no luck. Since the new stadium capacity will be almost 24,000 seats, the new south stands look to hold 9,500. That's really quite small.

Indeed. Many faults in this South Stand, this is why I was wondering if this was a final design, or subject to modifications.

[c_speed3108]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Thanks, I've been trying to get that information for a very long time, with no luck. Since the new stadium capacity will be almost 24,000 seats, the new south stands look to hold 9,500. That's really quite small.

From page 35 of:

http://www.ottawa.ca/residents/public_consult/lansdowne_partnership/lansdowne_mp.pdf

There is dozens of pages of interesting design details in that doc actually. (I note the theatre is stacked..first one of those we have had in Ottawa since Place de ville.)

South:

Lower Bowl: 4940
Club Level: 700
Suites: 346
Upper Deck: 3500

North:
Field Level: 600
Fixed Seating: 13500

Grand Total: 23586


I think the goal is not to make the stadium too big as this way it creates more demand for tickets and such. We seats are too plentiful they are harder to sell. Humans don't make decisions until they are forced to. Tell them if you don't buy now it will sell out and they buy. Plenty of tickets available and they sit on it until the game has past.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by c_speed3108

From page 35 of:

http://www.ottawa.ca/residents/public_consult/lansdowne_partnership/lansdowne_mp.pdf

There is dozens of pages of interesting design details in that doc actually. (I note the theatre is stacked..first one of those we have had in Ottawa since Place de ville.)

South:

Lower Bowl: 4940
Club Level: 700
Suites: 346
Upper Deck: 3500

North:
Field Level: 600
Fixed Seating: 13500

Grand Total: 23586


I think the goal is not to make the stadium too big as this way it creates more demand for tickets and such. We seats are too plentiful they are harder to sell. Humans don't make decisions until they are forced to. Tell them if you don't buy now it will sell out and they buy. Plenty of tickets available and they sit on it until the game has past.

Thank you very much. I never would have found that. Page 35.

I understand the rationale for building the south stands that small, but the design doesn't allow for another tier to be built if demand eventually outstrips supply. They can't add a third upper deck due to the design, and they can't sink the field and build a lower bowl down to the new field grade since they're building the south stands so close to the north stands. What happens if in 20 years, Ottawa needs another 15,000 seats? Putting them all in the end zone isn't an optimal solution.

Ottawa football has historically drawn from 20,000 to 30,000 fans, but that doesn't mean that's where it will be going forward. Ottawa is a bigger city now and continues to grow. When Ottawa hits 1.5 million, demand will likely be considerably higher than it was in the 90s. Starting at 24,000 seats is smart, but employ a design that is conducive to easy capacity expansion. The last thing you want is another Molson Stadium where by your team forgoes significant revenue due to capacity constraints imposed by a small facility.

This has been designed under the premise that Ottawa will never need significantly more than 24,000 permanent non-end zone seats. What if this franchise is a success and Ottawans come back to football en masse? Shouldn't one plan for success, rather than assume it won't ever materialize?

Below are the average attendance figures for Winnipeg, Calgary, Hamilton, and Edmonton for 2008-2010. Edmonton and Calgary have a metropolitan population about the same size as Ottawa's. Ottawa is about 50% larger than both Winnipeg and Hamilton.

Hamilton: 20,785....22,532....23,890
Winnipeg: 27,151....25,720....26,083
Calgary: 32,523....36,502....30,715
Edmonton: 37,383....37,164....35,025

If football ever manages to prosper in Ottawa the way it does in these other similarly sized Canadian cities, Ottawa should plan for about 40,000 seats 20 years down the road.

[Cre47]

Lawsuit may delay Lansdowne redevelopment

Updated: Fri Nov. 19 2010 7:37:28 PM

ctvottawa.ca

A new lawsuit being launched by opponents of the current redevelopment plan for Lansdowne Park may halt construction there for at least a year.

The Friends of Lansdowne, Inc. has filed an application to the Ontario Superior Court to quash council's decision to proceed with the current redevelopment plan, which calls for the refurbishment of the stadium and civic centre, the creation of a large urban park, and construction of a mixed-use area that would include shops, offices, and residences.

The group argues the city went ahead with the $290 million deal despite significant taxpayer concern. It wants the issue of Lansdowne redevelopment to be addressed by the newly-elected council which will be sworn in on Dec. 2.

There is a lot of speculation on the impact that this lawsuit may have on the redevelopment plans. Stephan Shrybman, a member of the group, said that if they lose, they may appeal the decision.

"If there is an appeal to the Ontario court of appeal, Lawyers will tell you that takes about a year to get through," said City Solicitor Rick O'Connor. "So that would probably raise some practical issues."

Some community members said that legal action is the only way to get the city to take their concerns seriously.

"I'm basically giving up in this process here," said Glebe resident Jo Wood. "I'm going to put all my time and energy into the legal appeal and I hope others will do the same."

The Friends of Lansdowne, Inc. and the city will meet at the Ontario Superior Court in late March or early April.

With a report from CTV Ottawa's John Hua

[Ottawan]

In order for this to actually halt construction they would not only need the primary lawsuit, but also an injunction in aid of the suit to be granted to halt construction pending the resolution of the suit. In essence, whoever wins the injunction (which would be argued much quicker) would win the war. So in my mind, these fears are overblown - the project will not be delayed, unless it is cancelled outright (which I find unlikely). Just my prediction though.

Edit: rereading the story, I see that the City Solicitor thinks the suit could be a problem. It's quite possible that I may be missing something, but since the project has already garnered coucil approval, I'll stick with my comments above.

[reidjr]

Originally Posted by Ottawan

In order for this to actually halt construction they would not only need the primary lawsuit, but also an injunction in aid of the suit to be granted to halt construction pending the resolution of the suit. In essence, whoever wins the injunction (which would be argued much quicker) would win the war. So in my mind, these fears are overblown - the project will not be delayed, unless it is cancelled outright (which I find unlikely). Just my prediction though.

Edit: rereading the story, I see that the City Solicitor thinks the suit could be a problem. It's quite possible that I may be missing something, but since the project has already garnered coucil approval, I'll stick with my comments above.

I just have this real bad feeling one of 2 things will happen the oseg group will pull out or the legal action will be successful.I would be shocked if this project does happen at this point.

[jemartin]

Of course Lansdowne will go ahead.

But in a manner respectful of heritage, a world class stadium designed by leading stadium design firm NBBJ (Staples Center, Safeco Field), wonderful mix of retail in existing and beautifully renovated structures, keeping the park 100% public and city owned but with a tax savings advantage of $300M.

The towers, private homes and retail will be built elsewhere, the city is growing.

Only it will be natural to develop them following the world model of Transit Oriented Development and along the billion dollar rapid transit expansion.

A win for out city, a win for the taxpayer a win for Lansdowne and sports and even a win for the developers.

The full proposal as submitted to the City can be seen at http://www.lpc-cpl.ca/pdf/Ot-park.pdf

Now while the initial bid was immediately rejected by the City the flow chart commences with the internal review process and the appointment of a mutually agreed upon Fairness Commissioner.

Bottom line is that with two competing projects that meet the guidelines set out by the City best price prevails.

The new bid is registered as a competitive bid under the rules.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by reidjr

I just have this real bad feeling one of 2 things will happen the oseg group will pull out or the legal action will be successful.I would be shocked if this project does happen at this point.

OSEG will not pull out unless or until there is no money to be made on this.

[waterloowarrior]

Lawyers like to throw mud.... if the Council can`t approve a site plan, the removal of a heritage designation, or other planning application when it`s lame duck then over the last while it would have been committing dozens of illegal acts. I like Councillor Bloess`point that if this was under the new Council then the vote would actually be more one-sided considering 7 out of 9 councillors who voted against Lansdowne are not on the new Council.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Cre47

Lawsuit may delay Lansdowne redevelopment

Updated: Fri Nov. 19 2010 7:37:28 PM

ctvottawa.ca

A new lawsuit being launched by opponents of the current redevelopment plan for Lansdowne Park may halt construction there for at least a year.

The Friends of Lansdowne, Inc. has filed an application to the Ontario Superior Court to quash council's decision to proceed with the current redevelopment plan, which calls for the refurbishment of the stadium and civic centre, the creation of a large urban park, and construction of a mixed-use area that would include shops, offices, and residences.

The group argues the city went ahead with the $290 million deal despite significant taxpayer concern. It wants the issue of Lansdowne redevelopment to be addressed by the newly-elected council which will be sworn in on Dec. 2.

There is a lot of speculation on the impact that this lawsuit may have on the redevelopment plans. Stephan Shrybman, a member of the group, said that if they lose, they may appeal the decision.

"If there is an appeal to the Ontario court of appeal, Lawyers will tell you that takes about a year to get through," said City Solicitor Rick O'Connor. "So that would probably raise some practical issues."

Some community members said that legal action is the only way to get the city to take their concerns seriously.

"I'm basically giving up in this process here," said Glebe resident Jo Wood. "I'm going to put all my time and energy into the legal appeal and I hope others will do the same."

The Friends of Lansdowne, Inc. and the city will meet at the Ontario Superior Court in late March or early April.

With a report from CTV Ottawa's John Hua

Ya know, if NIMBY's would put this much effort into MODIFYING existing proposals, we'd have one amazing city.