Calgary Public Transit II

[You Need A Thneed]

I say no to rat's nets of wires overhead as well. Keep it very limited.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by RicoLance21

Can you please clarify this part for me? I don't quite understand what you said.

Check out these links:

Primove Caternary Free System

• Video Link

[RicoLance21]

Originally Posted by para transit fellow

Edmonton had trolley buses BUT also ended up keeping a large set of diesel buses to be put into service if a trolley line died (ie: electical interruptions were frequent as the Caternay set-up aged)).

They did recognize that failure of a single vehicle could be managed by pushing off the route-- something that they couldn't do with an LRT ( rail) unit.

anyone know how toronto deals with it?

For Edmonton's system, it is rare that an electrical failure is the cause. It was mostly due to many reasons like road work, emergency vehicles, heck-even a crane blocking off parts of a road. Edmonton's trolleybuses were old technology with no batteries to go off-wire, hence made an atrociously-inefficient system. Trolleybuses with today's technology would rely way less on contingency backup buses--way way less.

[You Need A Thneed]

Oh, forgot to mention, there is some track laid out along the line now through Martindale. Not installed yet.

The "light towers" are framed up at Saddletowne Station, they will look really good, I think. Makes it look so much better then just the wavy roof would have looked.

The replacement platform at whitehorn has much more of a crown (slight arch) then the old one did. They had to re do the doors into the station - so that they worked in the meantime.

[The Chemist]

In central Shanghai they run battery (or it could be super-capacitor, I'm not sure - but they are electric) powered buses that can recharge their batteries via a roof mounted pantograph at certain bus stops - the pantograph is just raised while passengers are on and off-loading, and then lowered again so the bus can go.

There are also a few routes still served by genuine trolley buses, but those seem to becoming fewer and fewer every year.

[RicoLance21]

Originally Posted by The Chemist

In central Shanghai they run battery (or it could be super-capacitor, I'm not sure - but they are electric) powered buses that can recharge their batteries via a roof mounted pantograph at certain bus stops - the pantograph is just raised while passengers are on and off-loading, and then lowered again so the bus can go.

There are also a few routes still served by genuine trolley buses, but those seem to becoming fewer and fewer every year.

Again, availability issues; let alone the cost of replaceable parts, especially overseas. There should be multiple manufacturers to be feasible. Supercapacitor buses, AFAIK, are still manufactured by one company. If they are proven to be feasible, there should have been a few cities operating by now.

[srperrycgy]

If anyone is curious to see how our LRVs are made, "Factory Made" produced a segment showing how Siemens LRVs are manufactured. If you have Discovery World HD on Shaw Channel 228, the program is on again at 10:30pm tonight. The segment showed a Salt Lake City S70 being built and one of Denver's SD160s being run on the test track. Very cool stuff for us train geeks.

[freeweed]

How It's Made was a much better show. This new one is too .. I dunno, forced-drama or something. Just show and describe how shit is made, kthx.

[Wooster]

Trams, Trams, Trams

Published November 11, 2010
by Geoff Ghitter & Noel Keough in Urban Living

Among the stories we tell about ourselves in Calgary is a tale of desperate love — for our cars. Calgarians are having a mass “affaire de coeur” with their four-fendered darlings. Our automotive passions run so deep, we believe that life without cars is utterly inconceivable.

Funnily, it’s a story repeated worldwide, from Paris to Portland. Everyone everywhere, apparently, loves their cars more than anyone else. But it’s a myth.

We know because wherever high-quality, convenient and speedy alternatives have been built, people readily abandon their clunkers and take to the rails, to bikes and to their feet. Some places have actually ripped out highways only to discover they are not missed.

...

http://www.ffwdweekly.com/article/life-style/urban-living/trams-trams-trams-6585/

[para transit fellow]

Found out some facts about Vancouver's trolley buses.
Trolley buses need 1.2 times the maintenance of diesel buses. The cost of the electicity to drive a trolley is about $9000/yr vs some $40,000 for a diesel bus.
Cost of the trolley buses are double that of a diesel bus.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by para transit fellow

Found out some facts about Vancouver's trolley buses.
Trolley buses need 1.2 times the maintenance of diesel buses. The cost of the electicity to drive a trolley is about $9000/yr vs some $40,000 for a diesel bus.
Cost of the trolley buses are double that of a diesel bus.

The additional maintenance seems odd, shouldn't there be many less parts?

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by para transit fellow

Found out some facts about Vancouver's trolley buses.
Trolley buses need 1.2 times the maintenance of diesel buses. The cost of the electicity to drive a trolley is about $9000/yr vs some $40,000 for a diesel bus.
Cost of the trolley buses are double that of a diesel bus.

I read somewhere that despite the cost saved in fuel; the maintenance cost brings up the overall operating costs but still beats diesel just barely.
HRM (Halifax) has bought the same buses that Translink uses as trams but in Diesel form and apparently has been having great success with them.

A friend at translink tells me that many of the major problems of the old tram buses (where the electric connector would come loose at multiple feed turns) as been fixed and is much better. Still happens, but not as frequently.

[Dado]

I would really like to know why buses with electric motors should cost more than buses with diesel engines to maintain. Heck, just to start a gas engine (likely the same for diesel) requires two separate electric motors. Then you've got water and fuel pumps, filters, sensors, radiators, exhaust systems with catalytic converters, coolants and various lubricants in quantity, etc. With motors - practically none of that save a bit of lubrication. There's very little to go wrong with an electric system.

The only ways I can see electric being more expensive is (1) the wiring keeps failing, requiring costly searches for the fail and/or (2) the motors fail so often that they have to be replaced frequently, and their cost exceeds the equivalent costs on a diesel bus.

[You Need A Thneed]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

The additional maintenance seems odd, shouldn't there be many less parts?

I can't figure out why trolley busses cost more than diesel busses either. An electric system is so ridiculously simple. There is fewer moving parts and systems, which should mean less up front cost, and then it costs so much less to maintain the vehicle since there is far less scheduled maintenance. If the busses include some battery backup, that could offset the savings, but the batteries shouldn't need to be huge if they are just needed to drive the bus a km or two.

It's like the electric car, which is the "new" idea for personal vehicles. The electric car is OLDER than oil powered cars!

[MalcolmTucker]

^ Remember that for the most part, the electrical system is retrofitted into a conventional bus, not a purpose designed bus made for an electrical system. So that means still needing a way to power all the subsystems, likely off a secondary motor instead of a pure electric system. Making the two parts play well together could be difficult.

If you designed an electric bus from scratch with the goal of low maintenance costs I am sure you could do it - but on a life cycle basis, and the design cost spread over a limited number of buses I don't think you would come out ahead.

Now if the federal government suddenly said that they won't cost share on diesel vehicles anymore, that would be a different ball game. But we aren't there yet.

[CorporateWhore]

Would be nice to have these beauties driving around Calgary...

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/11/12/londons-new-double-decker-bus-unveiled-w-video/

[YYCguys]

It would indeed!

[SFUVancouver]

The life cycle cost of the trolleys in Vancouver is still lower than diesels because the former last longer than the latter. Also the trolleys run on the busiest, most urban routes in the city so the wear and tear from passenger loads and city traffic add to the costs. Back in 2007 the top five trolley bus routes in Vancouver moved about 125,000 people per day and the top ten brought us up to just over 180,000 people per day. Overall, six of the top ten bus routes were electric trolleys. I wish we had more up to date information because the third busiest route, the articulated diesel #98 B-Line, has since been replaced by the Canada Line, while the busiest route, the articulated diesel #99 B-Line, has increased to well over 75,000 people a day and still 4,000 to 5,000 people a day are being passed up by full buses. The Central Broadway corridor, where the 99 and a bunch of electric trolleys run, is now moving more than 115,000 people a day by bus. It's just silly that an underground SkyTrain extension isn't a sure thing.

Originally Posted by CorporateWhore

Would be nice to have these beauties driving around Calgary...

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/11/12/londons-new-double-decker-bus-unveiled-w-video/

Wow!

[Canadian74]

Originally Posted by CorporateWhore

Would be nice to have these beauties driving around Calgary...

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/11/12/londons-new-double-decker-bus-unveiled-w-video/

Bloody impressive!

[Riise]

Originally Posted by CorporateWhore

Would be nice to have these beauties driving around Calgary...

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/11/12/londons-new-double-decker-bus-unveiled-w-video/

TfL is actually looking to push these in order to lower the production costs. Although the model pictured is tailored for London, a model without the rear platform and staircase could work well in Calgary.