NEW YORK | 15 Penn Plaza (Hotel Penn) | 1,050 FT / 315 M | 52 FLOORS - Page 34

NYguy · #**661** Posted **Nov 12, 2010, 4:50 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-09...uare-feet-of-blight-james-s-russell.html

Behemoth Tower Packs 2.83 Million Square Feet of Blight: James S. Russell

By James S. Russell
Nov 9, 2010

An architectural rendering of 15 Penn Plaza. The tower tapers only slightly as it rises about 1,200 feet.

An architectural rendering of the the lobby of 15 Penn Plaza. Across from Penn Station in New York City, the tower would rise sheer from the ground, tapering back beginning at the 58th floor.
The design by architect Pelli Clarke Pelli for Vornado Realty Trust intends to accommodate a financial firm with trading floors extending as large as 70,000 square feet at the base.

A view looking east to West 32nd Street from Penn Station in New York. 15 Penn Plaza would rise 1,200 feet on the north side of the street, after the 23-story Hotel Pennsylvania is demolished.

A view looking west on West 32nd Street in New York. A zoning variance permits 15 Penn Plaza to rise about five times as high as the building to the north (right in photo), the Hotel Pennsylvania, which would be demolished.

http://www.observer.com/2010/real-estate...nning-out-room-15-penn-and-its-neighbors

A Problem of Design and Demand: We're Running Out of Room for 15 Penn and Its Big Brothers

By Matt Chaban
November 11, 2010

Quote:

Add Bloomberg architecture critic James Russell to the list of people none too keen to see Vornado's 15 Penn Plaza get built. He finds the building undistinguished, but the real problem is its gigantism.

He sees more of the same coming, as well, with the redevelopment of Moynihan Station and the million-plus square feet that project is expected to throw off, as well as development further west at Hudson Yards. That project will account for upward of 6 million square feet of commercial development, as well as millions more in slimmer residential towers. There is also Brookfield's Manhattan West, with two towers of 5.4 million square feet, as well as millions more square feet of amorphous development surrounding the Javits Center.

Things are going to get very crowded on the far West Side.

That is where the problems begin. It is not just all that raw square footage but the out-sized shape it is expected to take and the impact it will have on all those new people.

As Russell suggests and The Journal's Anton Troianovski smartly illustrated before him, this is a problem of design and demand. The reason the buildings are so big—so bulky, to use the technical term of art—is that the modern financier requires huge trading floors on which to pack his (it's almost always a he) bankers, sometimes thousands to a floor, a high-powered, high-frequency sweatshop.

As a result, the step-backed, slender towers that had been the norm at the turn of the last century are obsolete. There is a good reason the Financial District, with its near countless conversions, might as well be called the Residential District nowadays. As for the straight-laced, straight-faced glass modernists of the previous generation, the Seagrams and Nine Wests of New York, those were built up from generous, sometimes windswept, yet still light-filled plazas, a respite from all those flat facades.

But now land is too valuable, tenants too powerful. Every allowable square-foot must be built up, the demands of those inside the building's trumping those outside.

If bigger floorplates are warranted, so be it, even if it means the canyons that are 32nd and 33rd streets grow nearly a thousand feet deeper.

Part of the problem is that this is no longer a fight between midtown and downtown or even between New York, Boston and Chicago, but one between New York and the world. The question is, if Shanghai, Mumbai and Dubai are all O.K. with building—and living—on top of each other, even more so than we famously do here in New York, will we put up with it? Can we?

SkyscrapersOfNewYork · #**662** Posted **Nov 12, 2010, 4:56 AM**

and the complaints never end....

nmguar · #**663** Posted **Nov 12, 2010, 5:14 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyscrapersOfNewYork

and the complaints never end....

They all sound like the villains from The Fountainhead.

Alliance · #**664** Posted **Nov 12, 2010, 5:55 AM**

Russel clearly has little grasp on how development works. I agree that some of the towers are undistinguished, but this attempt at critiquing the tower is utterly pathetic. Its not like trading floors are on the 60th. Mostly they form a podium like BOFA or 15 Penn. This is no different than how ESB or American International are set up in terms of massing. He even mentioned that there are lots of other, slimmer residential towers at Hudson Yards. Does he read his own comments? Is he just complaining that (almost every) office towers (ever built) are fat?

If he doesn't like living on top of other people maybe he should live somewhere that isn't the densest city in the US.

OneWorldTradeCenter · #**665** Posted **Nov 12, 2010, 7:35 PM**

The rendering is aewsome!!

NYguy · #**666** Posted **Nov 12, 2010, 10:34 PM**

Quote:

Behemoth Tower Packs 2.83 Million Square Feet of Blight: James S. Russell

By James S. Russell
Nov 9, 2010

What's even more ironic is that this tower will house the type of jobs the City is trying to retain, quite the opposite of "blight".

NYC4Life · #**667** Posted **Nov 13, 2010, 6:20 AM**

15 Penn Plaza and the other proposed developments being considered "blight" to the area. I wonder what this guy would call what currently exists on the West Side and the Hotel Penn.

NOPA · #**668** Posted **Nov 13, 2010, 5:40 PM**

Ya know, if you have a problem with large towers, here's an idea: don't live in New York! Simple as that people.

Rizzo · #**669** Posted **Nov 13, 2010, 11:31 PM**

This isn't the time for critics to be complaining about bulky commercial buildings, although down the road, there may be a point to this argument. One of the valuable characteristics to Manhattan's urban environment is the co-existence of fine grain and coarse grain buildings. You need to retain some of the older midrise buildings to

1. Offer a break in the monotony of highrise office towers
2. Offer affordable office/retail/restaurant space to attract a diversity of business
3. Preserve at least some vistas, maintaining the integrity of valuable real estate.
4. Maintain urban aesthetics and the beauty of smaller older buildings against the backdrop of newer buildings.

New York isn't going to become like Asian cities with their thousands of glass highrises block after block anytime soon. But perhaps there needs to be some thought as to what buildings shall be sacrificed for bettering the New York economy.

15 Penn should not be applicable to this argument. I mean, look about the area. Plenty of huge massive buildings around the site. I think I'd be upset if this was knocking down a whole city block of 20 different commercial buildings, but it's not.

The critic calling this "blight" should be embarrassed.

SkyscrapersOfNewYork · #**670** Posted **Nov 14, 2010, 7:01 AM**

took this today,15 Penn Plaza's predecessor and future rival on the skyline

Zapatan · #**671** Posted **Nov 14, 2010, 7:09 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayward

New York isn't going to become like Asian cities with their thousands of glass highrises block after block anytime soon. .

Newsflash: New York has more 500+ foot buildings than anywhere in the world Outside of Hong Kong (Even Hong Kong only has a few more than NY does).

hunser · #**672** Posted **Nov 14, 2010, 12:43 PM**

the BIG 5 --> according to CTBUH, emporis and wikipedia:

--- counting towers which are completed and topped out, respectively ---

buildings over 500ft: NY 205, HK 242, shanghai 104, dubai 125, chicago 105
buildings over 600ft: NY 91, HK 86, shanghai 62, dubai 74, chicago 44
buildings over 656ft: NY 53, HK 54, shanghai 43, dubai 56, chicago 27
buildings over 984ft: NY 4, HK 6, shanghai 3, dubai 14, chicago 6

buildings over 656ft under construction: NY 5 (on hold: 3), HK 0, shanghai 5, dubai 23, chicago 0 (on hold: 2)

about dubai there's no reliable information... so the numbers could be wrong. same goes with shanghai in the 500ft+ category: should be at least 150 towers.

sorry for going off topic.

Mr. Lion · #**673** Posted **Nov 14, 2010, 2:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alliance

Russel clearly has little grasp on how development works. I agree that some of the towers are undistinguished, but this attempt at critiquing the tower is utterly pathetic. Its not like trading floors are on the 60th. Mostly they form a podium like BOFA or 15 Penn. This is no different than how ESB or American International are set up in terms of massing. He even mentioned that there are lots of other, slimmer residential towers at Hudson Yards. Does he read his own comments? Is he just complaining that (almost every) office towers (ever built) are fat?

If he doesn't like living on top of other people maybe he should live somewhere that isn't the densest city in the US.

these people dont seem to understand that they are living in NEW YORK CITY. A city whose financial importance and architecture is unmatched. They might as well move upstate if they are gonna keep bitchin

Zapatan · #**674** Posted **Nov 14, 2010, 11:22 PM**

Well if the power that may be is retarded enough to not allow these buildings to be built there is no space left in NY for development. I do honestly think these huge towers will eventually be built but people need to pay absolutely no attention to those moronic NIMBYS

NYC4Life · #**675** Posted **Nov 14, 2010, 11:34 PM**

Anyone who lives in NYC and opposes great and tall buildings being built in this great city should be ashamed of themselves and be stripped of their "New Yorker" status. Our future, symbol as a global city and economic growth lies deeply on how much we are able to build. We have to keep evolving as an even greater metropolis if we are to stay competitive against European and Asian cities, rather than to allow these suburban dwelling idiots to hold back our city from growing.