Halifax Central Library | 27 m | 6 fl | Completed

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

It's no different from Nova Centre at all. The only thing that differs is that this is a project that the left-wingers support, and hence it is Good. The Nova project is one the left-wingers oppose, so it is Bad. There has been far more debate on Nova than there has been on this waste of money. People are bitching about the city spending approximately the same amount of money on Nova as they are on this, yet Nova will bring jobs and growth to the city, whereas this is just a monument to the chief librarian that will serve the same bunch of CBC-listening types that currently inhabit the library clubhouse on SGR. The only difference is that they will no longer have to step outside to get their lattes, and that library management will have underground parking for their Volvos.

[someone123]

I disagree that the two processes were the same. With the library there is more of a sense that the public are stakeholders with some control over the design, and in fact the design was modified repeatedly in response to suggestions. This is why there will be a public area on the top floor with views of the city.

With the Nova Centre on the other hand there was no public consultation before the design was unveiled, and once it was unveiled we were told that it couldn't be changed without invalidating the bidding and financing process that was already in the process of being negotiated. There was a lot of debate but ultimately it did not matter because there was no control over the design. The debate ended up focusing on torpedoing the project in its entirety because that is about the only possibility for the public at this point - get so upset at politicians that they refuse to support the Nova Centre for fear of getting ousted in the next election.

The buildings may appeal to different groups but the distinction above holds either way and it is an important one. The chances of somebody learning a lesson from this are slim but I'm hopeful.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by someone123

I disagree that the two processes were the same. With the library there is more of a sense that the public are stakeholders with some control over the design, and in fact the design was modified repeatedly in response to suggestions. This is why there will be a public area on the top floor with views of the city.

With the Nova Centre on the other hand there was no public consultation before the design was unveiled, and once it was unveiled we were told that it couldn't be changed without invalidating the bidding and financing process that was already in the process of being negotiated. There was a lot of debate but ultimately it did not matter because there was no control over the design. The debate ended up focusing on torpedoing the project in its entirety because that is about the only possibility for the public at this point - get so upset at politicians that they refuse to support the Nova Centre for fear of getting ousted in the next election.

This is totally false. I am surprised given the source. You are sadly misinformed.

Nova Center started the same way the library project started -- by getting financing in place. The difference is that the squeaky-wheel left wing groups that run this city favored the library and opposed the CC. The mistake -- but not really, because those groups would have opposed it regardless -- was that the CC had a preliminary design AS REQUESTED BY THE GOVERNMENT OF NOVA SCOTIA, while the library boondoggle was allowed to be orchestrated by Judith Hare since Council is utterly useless, and so she was ablee to get approval to spend in excess of $55 million public dollars without a clue as to what the pile would ultimately look like, and her imported gourmet designers were not hired until after the project was already approved. The CC, if allowed to proceed, would go through the process of discussion and change to the design -- in fact, it already has. The design is nowhere near set. You are a victim of the misinformation campaign the Save The View nutbars have propagated.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by someone123

I disagree that the two processes were the same. With the library there is more of a sense that the public are stakeholders with some control over the design, and in fact the design was modified repeatedly in response to suggestions. This is why there will be a public area on the top floor with views of the city.

With the Nova Centre on the other hand there was no public consultation before the design was unveiled, and once it was unveiled we were told that it couldn't be changed without invalidating the bidding and financing process that was already in the process of being negotiated. There was a lot of debate but ultimately it did not matter because there was no control over the design. The debate ended up focusing on torpedoing the project in its entirety because that is about the only possibility for the public at this point - get so upset at politicians that they refuse to support the Nova Centre for fear of getting ousted in the next election.

The buildings may appeal to different groups but the distinction above holds either way and it is an important one. The chances of somebody learning a lesson from this are slim but I'm hopeful.

According to Joe Ramia there will be a public consultation process after January when an agreement has been signed. This is not unlike the library where public consultation took place after the funding commitments were signed for the library.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

According to Joe Ramia there will be a public consultation process after January when an agreement has been signed.

Unfortunately this does not sound genuine because it was announced only after there was negative publicity about the design. In the past Ramia and others also mentioned construction commencement dates that presumably don't leave much room for changes (although these estimated dates almost never happen in Halifax because everything proceeds so slowly).

Sadly, the whole process has been a bit of a gong show.

The library was also poorly handled up until the point where they started design work, but that part of the process seems to have gone pretty well and has done far better in the court of public opinion.

[fenwick16]

Joe Ramia has stated that changes can occur over the coming year during excavation which is expected to take one year to complete. The primary changes that I could see occurring would be to the exterior - do people want the original fake heritage facade or a more modern facade such as in the most recent renderings? Other additions such as a performing arts theatre would get people excited but probably add too much to the cost. Unlike the Central Library, I don't think that the general public should be deciding the actual convention centre layout. I think that the convention centre is more of an infrastructure project such as an airport than a public leisure space such as a library. On the other hand, I think that public consultations regarding a stadium should start immediately and there should be numerous such meetings just as there were with the library (especially now since it appears as though a stadium might become a reality).

[someone123]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Unlike the Central Library, I don't think that the general public should be deciding the actual convention centre layout. I think that the convention centre is more of an infrastructure project such as an airport than a public leisure space such as a library.

I agree. Mostly I am talking about the "optics" of this project. It just doesn't seem like a surprise to me that people would be leery of the convention centre but accepting of the library.

[Dmajackson]

Ok for some reason the website does not have this information on it so hopefully somebody can give me a coorect answer.

Does anyone know the floor count or height for this project?

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

Ok for some reason the website does not have this information on it so hopefully somebody can give me a coorect answer.

Does anyone know the floor count or height for this project?

Floor layouts (http://www.halifaxcentrallibrary.ca/assets/pdfs/Sept_30_-_Architect_Presentation.pdf) indicate 5 storeys (including the cantilevered top floor) and the allnovascotia.com referred to it as having 5 storeys in their November 5th 2010 story - "Take a Look at the New Library".

This rendering seems to indicate 6 storeys? Maybe some one can explain why it looks like 6 storeys?

[halifaxboyns]

I'd have to agree with fenwick; the rendering certainly appears to show 6 stories.

Judging by the height limits in HbD and the viewplane rules; I think they might be able to pull it off.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

... the library boondoggle was allowed to be orchestrated by Judith Hare since Council is utterly useless, and so she was ablee to get approval to spend in excess of $55 million public dollars without a clue as to what the pile would ultimately look like, and her imported gourmet designers were not hired until after the project was already approved. ...

The cost was set using the Space Program developed by HOK under a separate tender and award proccess, and based on a reasonable cost/square foot that was informed by similar public buildings of similar scale. Once the cost was estimated, then the budget was set.


Then the tender for design was let with a total cost for the building set.

The theory being that the designers are to design a building to fit the budget (always tough to know until construction bids all close).

[Northend Guy]

Could it be that the floor that appears to be the 4th floor in the rendering is actually a vaulted ceiling for the 3rd floor? It could be that what appears to be the floor is actually a structural steel beam surrounding the perimeter. It is hard to tell given the lighting on the rendering.

[beyeas]

actually I thought that it was the top floor that looked vaulted. If you look the area on the top fronting SGR, it looks like it is a double height ceiling in the area that people are standing in?

[someone123]

Details here: http://www.halifaxcentrallibrary.ca/assets/pdfs/Nov4-Presentation.pdf

The mystery of the sixth floor is explained by the building cross-section on page 33 of the PDF. There are officially five levels but it looks like there's a kind of sub-floor over the front portion of the main level. Similarly, there's a part of the top level with high ceilings but farther back the height is cut down to accommodate a mechanical level.

The building is a little narrower than I thought. They won't be building on some of the parking fronting onto SGR. Perhaps this will be turned into some kind of open space.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by someone123

Details here: http://www.halifaxcentrallibrary.ca/assets/pdfs/Nov4-Presentation.pdf

The mystery of the sixth floor is explained by the building cross-section on page 33 of the PDF. There are officially five levels but it looks like there's a kind of sub-floor over the front portion of the main level. Similarly, there's a part of the top level with high ceilings but farther back the height is cut down to accommodate a mechanical level.

Thanks for the link (it must have just been released today). I read about a mezzanine level - would this be it? So that previous rendering actually does show six levels for the view that was shown in post 649. Plus it has one underground level of parking. It also shows 2 Cafes - I assume that they will be Tim Hortons if the library wants to have a consistent stream of revenue.

This is the section view mentioned in someone123's post - page 33/74 of http://www.halifaxcentrallibrary.ca/assets/pdfs/Nov4-Presentation.pdf )

[Keith P.]

So now we're up to TWO cafes? Judith must be a coffeeholic.

[Jonovision]

I would agree with Fenwick and Keith regarding Nova Centre. Joe is fully committed to a public consultation process in January if public funding is approved. It was in the RFP. The renderings we all saw months ago were made ad hoc in order to give a bit of form to the massing being presented for the centre. The exterior is what will be consulted on and what can be changed. The library only differed in that its layout is more flexible then that of the convention centre so therefore its massing was able to be tweaked.

[halifaxboyns]

I think I see how people are looking at it as six stories; versus 5. It looks like there is a mezzanine level off the first floor (I like to call it a floor and a half).

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

I think I see how people are looking at it as six stories; versus 5. It looks like there is a mezzanine level off the first floor (I like to call it a floor and a half).

The city space, which some might consider to be one level, is more like 2 1/2 levels (1/2 sunken plus two full levels on the opposite side). So should we just call the City Space one level or 2 levels or, really confuse people and call it it 2 1/2? There is a way to section the library through the mechanical room whereby if you include the parking level there are 8 levels. Thanks to someone123 for solving the mystery.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

So now we're up to TWO cafes? Judith must be a coffeeholic.

perhaps one should be licensed.....