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  #281  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2010, 12:54 AM
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The Brewery Market, Midtown, and TexPark are three sites that I think can be undeniably attributed to the city. The original brewery proposal was from 2002 or so. United Gulf, sadly, was selected after an HRM RFP and it still went through years of appeals. It's hard to imagine a more broken system than that. The Midtown was not my favourite proposal but it's a lot better than a parking lot.

One thing I am not sure of is what the holdup is exactly for something like the Infirmary or St. Pat's. It is somewhat mind-boggling how nothing happens with these sites for years.
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  #282  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2010, 5:38 AM
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The Brewery Market, Midtown, and TexPark are three sites that I think can be undeniably attributed to the city. The original brewery proposal was from 2002 or so. United Gulf, sadly, was selected after an HRM RFP and it still went through years of appeals. It's hard to imagine a more broken system than that. The Midtown was not my favourite proposal but it's a lot better than a parking lot.

One thing I am not sure of is what the holdup is exactly for something like the Infirmary or St. Pat's. It is somewhat mind-boggling how nothing happens with these sites for years.
Well both the Midtown and twisted sisters both ended up in court; I believe (if my memory serves me correctly) the HT took the decisions of the URB to court. I may be thinking some other application, because I know the big apartment complex next to the public gardens (where the RBC is now) nearly ended up in the Supreme Court of Canada because the HT and some other groups weren't happy and decided to fight (because they had time and $ on their hands). Thankfully; the SCOC refused to hear the matter.

The difficulty with evolving a city is that not everyone agrees with how it evolves. When I worked in Fort Mac and we designed the first mixed use community with much higher densities; narrow lots and all that - we had huge push back from the community. Many people wanted their 50' wide single family lots with lots of driveway and snout houses. We got it through council in the end; but I wasn't surprised at the push back.

If these groups have the money to fight - then they will. One interesting thing that's happened in PEI is a developer took people who appealed to court. It hasn't progressed yet; but it sounds pretty nasty and I suspect that will be what happens next in HRM. I had mentioned it before when I first started posting - the only people who can expropriate is government; but the HT and all these other groups are (by virtue of continuous appeals) expropriating through appeal. Would be an interesting case.

The appeal process shouldn't be blamed; it's not perfect - no system is; but everyone has the right to appeal. In Alberta; there is a Subdivision and Development Appeal Board - now depending on where you are; usually after an appeal is lodged a hearing occurs in 30 days and you get the decision at the meeting. But in Edmonton and Calgary; sometimes you may get on the agenda but there is so much evidence presented (and residents make it into a court) - it takes forever. I remember one appeal being adjourned 12 times - it started out on the agenda in November 2007 - wasn't heard until a special meeting in August 2008. So; our appeal system can be crazy too - and then there is still the right to take the decision of the SDAB to court!

Calgary's had the same problem with parking lots btw - all the stalled projects wanted to be able to build up to the parkade and then rent out the stalls. What a mess that's been. Thankfully most of the projects appear to be restarting - for now.

I guess my only comment would be just be patient. Halifax wasn't built in a day after all!
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  #283  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2010, 8:11 AM
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But in Edmonton and Calgary; sometimes you may get on the agenda but there is so much evidence presented (and residents make it into a court) - it takes forever.
It is a fundamentally unbalanced process because delays are always in favour of the opponents. The large amounts of evidence are essentially an attempt at fillibustering and should not be allowed. The reality is that most of the projects that are appealed are relatively simple and there is no way that each requires years of deliberation to decide whether it should be built or not.

I think there should be a process for appeals but that the present one is highly flawed - it's just way, way too slow. A delay of up to a year or so is long but workable. When you hit 5-10 year delays for developments (this happens in Halifax) it gets to the point where developers can't reasonably anticipate eventual economics, project costs balloon, and a lot of development is just not feasible anymore. The city suffers from this kind of burdensome regulatory environment.

Something else to keep in mind is that some of the HRM decisions made little sense. This was particularly bad back when the Peninsula Community Council made decisions about large developments in the core. It took only 2 votes to torpedo the Brewery tower (4 people and a tie results in denial of the development agreement). This process was later changed so that HRM council votes on developments, but I'm not sure that makes sense either. I think that council should focus on higher level planning guidelines and that individual applications should be handled quickly in a routine manner by city staff.
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  #284  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2010, 6:25 PM
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It is a fundamentally unbalanced process because delays are always in favour of the opponents. The large amounts of evidence are essentially an attempt at fillibustering and should not be allowed. The reality is that most of the projects that are appealed are relatively simple and there is no way that each requires years of deliberation to decide whether it should be built or not.

I think there should be a process for appeals but that the present one is highly flawed - it's just way, way too slow. A delay of up to a year or so is long but workable. When you hit 5-10 year delays for developments (this happens in Halifax) it gets to the point where developers can't reasonably anticipate eventual economics, project costs balloon, and a lot of development is just not feasible anymore. The city suffers from this kind of burdensome regulatory environment.

Something else to keep in mind is that some of the HRM decisions made little sense. This was particularly bad back when the Peninsula Community Council made decisions about large developments in the core. It took only 2 votes to torpedo the Brewery tower (4 people and a tie results in denial of the development agreement). This process was later changed so that HRM council votes on developments, but I'm not sure that makes sense either. I think that council should focus on higher level planning guidelines and that individual applications should be handled quickly in a routine manner by city staff.
I've thought about the appeals process for sometime and I don't think any appeal process will work perfectly; because ultimately its a crap shoot. You roll the dice and see what happens.

The downtown planning process going to regional council is probably a more balanced approach; because it gives more of the region an opportunity to have a say. That's the whole point of being a regional municipality - is that each region should have some say in another. Whether that's what is happening or not is another question.

I think the problem with planning as a whole is that because policy is now an absolute; you will never truely have one interpretation. Here's an example:

"Create liveable communities" - I pulled that from a random policy document, not in HRM. So what does that mean to you? I'm willing to be that there will be common elements that we can all agree on, but others were don't. For example - to me a liveable community is about creating vibrant, walking/biking centres where you have a good mix of housing in all forms, all scales that promote vibrant commercial areas and that have many local services (such as schools) nearby. I've written that in the most general, because I'm sure we'd all agree. But the momment I say the scale means up to 100 storeys; then all of a sudden that changes.

Interpretation is never easy and since legal issues get thrown in; you can expect the process to get more complicated than easy.

That being said - maybe what the developers should be doing is really going over the appeal decisions with a fine toothed comb. If the appeal boards find that an appeal was lodged with the intent to delay or be problematic; then I think they should start taking these people to court.
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  #285  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2010, 4:12 AM
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Dunno if anyone said this yet... But now the whole parking lot is fenced off, how long as it been like this for? Hopefully this means they will be starting soon?
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  #286  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2010, 4:31 AM
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I don't remember the entire site being fenced off since I was able to walk through it on my last phototour and people were playing impromtu games of soccer on it all summer long ... so that should defenitely be a good sign.

With all of the projects going up in the Southern Waterfont I may just live there next summer to make phototours even easier.
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  #287  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2010, 4:14 PM
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I'll be down that way tomorrow. I'll see if any new signage or activity has begun on the site.
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  #288  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2010, 12:51 AM
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I was down there today. The only thing of note was that it appears someone has knocked over the old booth for the parking lot. Other then that it is the same. The developers are coming to VivaCity next week and are bringing their model along too. Maybe they can give us a clue as to when we will see work commence.
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  #289  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2010, 6:38 PM
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I was going to say the same thing. The booth is flat and also the fence that went along Lower Water was gone too.
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  #290  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2010, 7:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonovision View Post
I was down there today. The only thing of note was that it appears someone has knocked over the old booth for the parking lot. Other then that it is the same. The developers are coming to VivaCity next week and are bringing their model along too. Maybe they can give us a clue as to when we will see work commence.
Did you get a chance to talk to them? Are there plans to move forward or is this still "on hold"?

All the talk of requiring footings in place by next June and so on sounded like the WDCL trying to pressure the developer to move forward.
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  #291  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2010, 3:30 PM
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The fence is still there but the "demolition" of the parking attendant hut is done. After the vandals? took it down the debris is now gone.
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  #292  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2010, 1:09 AM
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The fence is still there but the "demolition" of the parking attendant hut is done. After the vandals? took it down the debris is now gone.
I'm not sure but I think the parking stall was moved down the street to the lot next to the former power station (NSP HQ).
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  #293  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2010, 10:59 PM
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It will be nice to have this complete it will add something nice along the boardwalk, I think it will make the walk much more complete looking.
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  #294  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2010, 8:58 PM
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There is an excavator on site and there were a few guys with GPS units too. The excavator dug some small holes. I'd guess these are for soil testing?
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  #295  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2010, 9:31 PM
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Sounds like it!
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  #296  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2010, 12:43 AM
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I've realized that nothing serious will happen here until the real fence goes up. One that would surround the property. The current one only blocks off the driveway to keep illegal parkers out.
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  #297  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2010, 3:05 AM
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They had a drilling rig there when I walked by the site today.
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  #298  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2010, 8:20 PM
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Looks like it may be a while yet before this gets started. A volleyball tournament is being held on this lot next summer:

http://www.metronews.ca/halifax/sports/a...volleyball-championships-come-to-halifax
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  #299  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2010, 8:34 PM
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Looks like it may be a while yet before this gets started. A volleyball tournament is being held on this lot next summer:

http://www.metronews.ca/halifax/sports/a...volleyball-championships-come-to-halifax
Wrong lot but close. The volleyball is going to the other side of Bishops Landing (adjacent to NSPI). This project has to start by April so hopefully there will be nothing on that lot next summer other than a crane, backhoes, cement trucks and half a million coffee addicts (opps I mean construction workers ).

Should be a good event though. Anything with "international" included in its title makes for good publicity for an area.

Last edited by Dmajackson; Nov 2, 2010 at 8:49 PM.
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  #300  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2010, 10:01 PM
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Wrong lot but close. The volleyball is going to the other side of Bishops Landing (adjacent to NSPI). This project has to start by April so hopefully there will be nothing on that lot next summer other than a crane, backhoes, cement trucks and half a million coffee addicts (opps I mean construction workers ).

Should be a good event though. Anything with "international" included in its title makes for good publicity for an area.

Ah alright, it had me worried for a bit there lol.
But yeah, I can't complain about the event itself. Anything like this is good, especially since its located right on the waterfront.
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