ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[gttx]

I should add that I really don't like what Tech has done with the streets through campus (Atlantic was mentioned). While it does create a nice pedestrian environment, I also think urban campuses should seem more like part of a city than an entirely separate place - and redefining or eliminating the grid makes the campus feel like a different world.

[MarkL2023]

Originally Posted by sirrob

Awesome! Can't wait to move back there! Exciting times are making it's way back to Atlanta. She's going to be one of the first major cities to pull out of this recession, with a substantially stronger economic engine, NOT a "fake" ecomony built on shuffling houses back and forth.

I don't know where you are getting your optimism. The true leaders are already coming out of the recession, unlike Atlanta. Don't believe me? Dallas/Ft. Worth's unemployment rate is now 7.9% after being 8.4% last month. Atlanta's going to be in the dumps for a few years, IMO.

[simms3_redux]

Originally Posted by gttx

I should add that I really don't like what Tech has done with the streets through campus (Atlantic was mentioned). While it does create a nice pedestrian environment, I also think urban campuses should seem more like part of a city than an entirely separate place - and redefining or eliminating the grid makes the campus feel like a different world.

Well 99.9% of Atlanta was never a grid. Georgia Tech was initially started at a time when that area was largely undeveloped. Also, Georgia Tech is not an "urban campus" in the way GSU is. Georgia Tech is more akin to Emory. Georgia Tech is also where more college age students from around the country and around the world go (I myself am from Florida), so an element of safety and privacy has to come with it. I personally think the campus is actually quite nice. West Campus housing is steps away from Hemphill/10th and East Campus housing is steps away from Spring/North. The campus is also public where anyone can visit or drive through.

I think you are being way too hard on the campus. Atlanta would be nothing without Georgia Tech both development wise and people wise (GT has done quite a bit...and how many campuses have developed a 5th St type corridor in a major urban area?). Not to mention so many leaders in both the corporate realm and the public realm are grads of Tech.

As a student dropping a boat load of money to attend the school, I for one am glad that I am in my "own little world" on campus rather than interacting with Woodruff park and bums every day (well I guess it's hard to get away from the bums LoL).

[Zanarkand A East]

Georgia reportedly getting $4.1M for Atlanta-Charlotte rail

Interesting that North Carolina got a 20-year head start. Hopefully, the next wave of leadership in Georgia gets its act together and makes these rail projects happen ASAP.

[L.ARCH]

Originally Posted by simms3_redux

Well 99.9% of Atlanta was never a grid. Georgia Tech was initially started at a time when that area was largely undeveloped. Also, Georgia Tech is not an "urban campus" in the way GSU is. Georgia Tech is more akin to Emory. Georgia Tech is also where more college age students from around the country and around the world go (I myself am from Florida), so an element of safety and privacy has to come with it. I personally think the campus is actually quite nice. West Campus housing is steps away from Hemphill/10th and East Campus housing is steps away from Spring/North. The campus is also public where anyone can visit or drive through.

I think you are being way too hard on the campus. Atlanta would be nothing without Georgia Tech both development wise and people wise (GT has done quite a bit...and how many campuses have developed a 5th St type corridor in a major urban area?). Not to mention so many leaders in both the corporate realm and the public realm are grads of Tech.

As a student dropping a boat load of money to attend the school, I for one am glad that I am in my "own little world" on campus rather than interacting with Woodruff park and bums every day (well I guess it's hard to get away from the bums LoL).

Apparently, you should try to take some of those great urban design classes they offer where those amazing teachers will tell you themselves why the campus isnt so great..

[Zanarkand A East]

Originally Posted by L.ARCH

Apparently, you should try to take some of those great urban design classes they offer where those amazing teachers will tell you themselves why the campus isnt so great..

+1

[simms3_redux]

Outside of Columbia, NYU, Brown (ew), and GSU, can you guys provide examples of truly urban campuses that are comparable schools? I am not talking about the building of Charlotte's Johnson and Wales campus out of thin air...no offense can't compare that school to top 20/25 institutions in the country that have been around and developed to what they are today for at least 100 years.

I think while some urbanists might have a snooty problem with the campus, I can name a few that don't seem to have a problem with the campus and constantly trying to give input and improve the campus for what it is (not for what it isn't).

GSU is more of a commuter/local/adult school that can get away with its layout. GT is a traditional college with most students in the 18-22 range who live on campus for at least 1 or 2 or even 3 years. It is a top tier school that draws students from everywhere.

Even in NOLA, Tulane is pretty isolated from the surrounding areas (my dad went there so I am familiar with that campus).

I think you guys are being unrealistic CNU snobs. Even ULI is fine with GT and Emory's campuses for what they are as I have attended one of their lunch series where they were highlighted with recent improvements and plans for the future, including an ongoing effort to connect the two with a bikeway/greenspace.

You know, Piedmont Park is open to the public and has many entrances (not unlike Georgia Tech), but once you are in the park it's a breath of fresh air, provides a sense of security, and is "isolated" from the bustling Midtown environment. So whatever you have to say about Georgia Tech you better reiterate the same things for most college campuses and for the best urban parks we have in this country (Piedmont, Central, Boston Commons, Grant, and the list goes on).

[ajdelo]

Originally Posted by Zanarkand A East

Georgia reportedly getting $4.1M for Atlanta-Charlotte rail

Interesting that North Carolina got a 20-year head start. Hopefully, the next wave of leadership in Georgia gets its act together and makes these rail projects happen ASAP.

Well, according to Sonny, it's Obama's fault. I mean, $4.1 million for inter-city rail and another $47 million dollars for the streetcar from the Obama administration backs that up .

[llamaorama]

I think it would be beneficial if both sides would stop giving the cold shoulder to one another.

Speaking as a student, I find a good campus should also be allowed to have an adjacent campus neighborhood where students can find good, services, and housing for their needs. I find it a slap in the face that some towns which have major universities do their best to prevent even a segregated student ghetto detached from the rest of town from being able to exist much less a campus integrated into the city, and a desire to stamp out every single apartment, sandwich shop, etc, from town. Until every student either lives in a dorm and never leaves the campus or lives at home and has zero social life. Alternatively maybe institutions should playing big brother, encouraging the "safety" of fortress-like dorms and making the campus itself disconnected from the urban fabric. Or keeping away public transit stations or other useful things because they would allow the "unwashed masses" to wander onto the quad. Or being adversarial to the main drag where the student bars are, or other fun non-academic things.

At least that's the vibe I get. I'm glad I live in a town and attend a school that seems integrated and open. Also I sense that universities and the places where they are at tend to get along best when both have a good sense of tradition. Then the school and town's identities become intertwined. That, and powerful alumni are more likely to come in and champion student interests.

I'm not from Atlanta, but is correct to assume that where GSU is, in the heart of downtown, is kind of already kryptonite to your typical nimby douchebag?(clearly no one can bitch about obnoxious students when there are bums wandering around). I understand that some pockets show the signs of being gentrifiable, at least from what people here on this forum have stated and posted articles refering to I'd say sweet auburn and the place around King Memorial MARTA. But from where GSU is towards the core of downtown and off to Five Points MARTA and Garnett MARTA around Underground Atlanta, it would be ripe territory would it not?

[skapunkskatedude]

Originally Posted by simms3_redux

GSU is more of a commuter/local/adult school that can get away with its layout. GT is a traditional college with most students in the 18-22 range who live on campus for at least 1 or 2 or even 3 years. It is a top tier school that draws students from everywhere.

GSU is definitely not a local or adult school in the slightest. And the "commuter" label really is a thing of the past these days. If you walk around campus, you'd be hard pushed to find a student over 30 in the sea of 18-22 year olds. Granted, there isn't as much student housing as is preferable (around 3000-4000 students worth or somewhere around that), but that is rapidly changing (they haven't even officially announced the Piedmont North housing which students are already living in). Georgia State is a top research university and certainly draws students from everywhere. It kinda gets old when Tech kids assume things about a school they know nothing about...

[BlueSangha]

Originally Posted by skapunkskatedude

GSU is definitely not a local or adult school in the slightest. And the "commuter" label really is a thing of the past these days. If you walk around campus, you'd be hard pushed to find a student over 30 in the sea of 18-22 year olds. Granted, there isn't as much student housing as is preferable (around 3000-4000 students worth or somewhere around that), but that is rapidly changing (they haven't even officially announced the Piedmont North housing which students are already living in). Georgia State is a top research university and certainly draws students from everywhere. It kinda gets old when Tech kids assume things about a school they know nothing about...

You might wanna rethink that statement, or at the very least pull some stats. Last I heard the average age of the GSU student was 24, and I am 43; I also know several older students and see them on campus all day. I also commute from outside the perimeter, and see several students getting on at North Springs MARTA station and at every stop in between there and P'tree center. I know several students that commute. And of those 3-4k students housed, the majority are freshman. 87% of all undergraduates at GSU commute, 46% of them are freshman.

[L41A]

Lay off Georgia Tech. It may be a mixed bag. But Georgia Tech made up for any shortcomings with Technology Square and the Fifth Street Bridge.

[simms3_redux]

Atlanta is blessed to have a plethora of top colleges. It has two very very highly ranked colleges (GT and Emory), a very good and also highly ranked research university that is a real benefit to the community and IS downtown nowadays (GSU), and 3 of the black "Ivy's (Morehouse, Spelman, an Clark). That being said, each campus is fairly open to the community and offers a public exchange of ideas and resources. GSU takes that to the extreme by having a truly urban college campus integrated into the core, while GT and Emory are more traditional and could not be anything but traditional for what they are and the purpose they serve.

Anyone who rags on any of these colleges from a design standpoint is being a little facetious, a little snooty (like I said CNU design snob lol), and expecting too much. Tech's business school (which is my school) is in Tech Square in a business like environment that Tech fostered and created. Not many schools do that. Tech's engineering side is logically a little more isolated and private and in high tech buildings that house pretty contained and often secret projects. How do you integrate that into a grid system downtown campus???

If any school is lacking it's the College of Architecture!! You guys are complaining about the rest of the campus/the campus as a whole but you guys have the lowest common denominator!!! Hahaha hypocrisy at its finest. Get John Portman or some architecture alum with enough money and a big enough ego to do something to remedy that situation.

Also, if you think GT is too private and too poorly planned, please drive over to Greenville, SC and visit the Bob Jones University. I believe it's a Baptist founded university, and the whole thing is walled and gated with unsightly walls/gates. Talk about unintegration and not serving its purpose as a foothold of the community and a bastion of ideas that flow back and forth. Would never want to go there (and I hope I don't offend anyone who may be an alum).

[Zanarkand A East]

Originally Posted by ajdelo

Well, according to Sonny, it's Obama's fault. I mean, $4.1 million for inter-city rail and another $47 million dollars for the streetcar from the Obama administration backs that up .

+1

[sevensixtwo]

I took MARTA to GSU for four years. It's awesome. It's good for Atlanta. The whole area is on the up and up. Now I live midtown and drive to GT everyday for $600 annually. I might feel like walking to school in the morning but when it's time to go i sure as hell don't want to walk back. I think it's retarded that there's no way to park at the library anymore.

Crum and Forster is still standing. That other building on North was a piece and its better to have parking than not have that old thing. GT is great, they are a boon to Atlanta's economy and its urban fabric on any metric.

One thing though... They really should make every building on campus have a red brick facade. All this over flourished architecture is going to look dated pretty soon. Bricks are academic looking and they'll keep looking that way. Maybe I'm wrong though... Maybe glass is the new brick?

[briantech]

Originally Posted by sevensixtwo

I might feel like walking to school in the morning but when it's time to go i sure as hell don't want to walk back. I think it's retarded that there's no way to park at the library anymore.

Why don't you take the trolley?

[echinatl]

Looks like Ga Tech is buying the Suntrust building off 4th and W.Peachtree. Anyone know what they might do with it?

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/print-edition/2010/10/22/Tech.html

[shivtim]

Calm down there, Simms. I don't think anyone was overly critical of Tech, they were just expressing their opinion that they wish the campus was less insular. Tech appears to be moving in the direction of having a highly urban section of campus on the east side of 75/85, and a more traditional large main campus on the west side of the highway.

Originally Posted by simms3_redux

Outside of Columbia, NYU, Brown (ew), and GSU, can you guys provide examples of truly urban campuses that are comparable schools?

Boston University, MIT, Northeastern University, U.Penn, Drexel, George Washington, Howard, UIC, Wayne State, Duquesne, IUPUI, Vanderbilt, Arizona, Portland State, Cleveland State, UAB, Marquette...
That's just off the top of my head. While not the norm, integrated urban campuses are certainly not rare in this country. Although honestly I would also now include Ga Tech in that list, thanks to Tech Square.

[simms3_redux]

Not to keep this going but since I looked at UPenn and considered going there I would not say it is any more urban than GT except to say the city itself and the surrounding area are more urban than anywhere in Atlanta. Drexel's nearby, but I don't even know what it looks like except that it has a tall stack.

GWU is more closed off than you are giving it credit for, I would substitute GWU for George Mason. Vanderbilt is in a more urban environment and has their large med school/hospital there (like UPenn and UAB), but they aren't integrated into the fabric like say GSU is. There are still quads and areas of campus where you would never know you are in the middle of an urban environment. The rest of that list = thumbs up! I'm actually trying to go to MIT Sloan for my MBA sometime in the future.

And I was being calm, I was just baffled that some people don't seem to be thinking clearly to determine that it is hard to put a research/engineering university in downtown buildings and that Tech is planned poorly (as a 5th year who has utilized the campus to the max and someone who appreciates an urban environment I am certainly pleased and I don't know anyone else who isn't so it was just weird hearing it).

Now on to development news and hearsay, there are plans in the future to purchase even more buildings. I once heard the plans for that building (the building next to Suntrust and next to CoM), but I forgot them since the original timeline for anything was further out. I'll see what I can come up with (I see Foundation people every week). I believe the last parcel of the AT&T development was at one point offered to Tech as well, but Tech was unwilling to pay the higher price for it and there are no official plans for that site yet.

[gttx]

Originally Posted by simms3_redux

Not to keep this going but since I looked at UPenn and considered going there I would not say it is any more urban than GT except to say the city itself and the surrounding area are more urban than anywhere in Atlanta. Drexel's nearby, but I don't even know what it looks like except that it has a tall stack.

GWU is more closed off than you are giving it credit for, I would substitute GWU for George Mason. Vanderbilt is in a more urban environment and has their large med school/hospital there (like UPenn and UAB), but they aren't integrated into the fabric like say GSU is. There are still quads and areas of campus where you would never know you are in the middle of an urban environment. The rest of that list = thumbs up! I'm actually trying to go to MIT Sloan for my MBA sometime in the future.

And I was being calm, I was just baffled that some people don't seem to be thinking clearly to determine that it is hard to put a research/engineering university in downtown buildings and that Tech is planned poorly (as a 5th year who has utilized the campus to the max and someone who appreciates an urban environment I am certainly pleased and I don't know anyone else who isn't so it was just weird hearing it).

Look, as an alumnus of Tech (and of Penn, which you mention as well), I'm not totally displeased with it. There are things it does very well and things it fails to do. And it undoubtedly has been hugely important for the city and region.

Frankly, though, this is a board about development and, in a more general way, about urbanism. Critique is expected (and desirable) as part of that conversation.