National Defence HQ (Carling) | 60 Moodie Drive [former Nortel campus] - Page 2

Doug · #21 Posted **Oct 21, 2010, 3:32 PM**

The Feds already occupy the former Nortel locations at Skyline (Baseline and Merrivale), Woodline (Woodruff and Baseline) and Fitzgerald (Moody and Robertson).

reidjr · #22 Posted **Oct 21, 2010, 4:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug

Ericsson's NA HQ is in Texas, not all that far away from Nortel's former Richardson Campus, which was even larger than Carling. Ericsson has far too many employees in the North Dallas Telecom corridor to even consider relocating.

Roger's bought the former Nortel Bramalea Campus in Brampton. Bell's HQ is in Montreal.

Yes but if the project went on the block it would have some interest.

McC · #23 Posted **Oct 21, 2010, 4:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by flar

Putting aside the location for a moment, who exactly would fill such a large space (other than the feds)?

New Suburban University Campus?

Acajack · #24 Posted **Oct 21, 2010, 5:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug

The Carling Campus had a better food court than most malls - no need to drive anywhere.

Good point there. It is true that this type of concentration of people can lead to some decent services being offered there.

DubberDom · #25 Posted **Oct 21, 2010, 7:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug

At its peak, the Carling Campus had something like 12,000 employees. The road and transit systems seemed to handle the load back then (around 2000), so what is different now?

The problem is that DND will eventually displace 10,000 employees who currently have transitway access to a location without effective transit access.

If the Nortel buildings would have been sold to Microsoft and they would open up a new Ottawa lab with 10,000 jobs, it would not be that much of an issue. since these would be new jobs.

IBM was another rumoured suitor for the campus.

reidjr · #26 Posted **Oct 21, 2010, 9:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DubberDom

The problem is that DND will eventually displace 10,000 employees who currently have transitway access to a location without effective transit access.

If the Nortel buildings would have been sold to Microsoft and they would open up a new Ottawa lab with 10,000 jobs, it would not be that much of an issue. since these would be new jobs.

IBM was another rumoured suitor for the campus.

It would have been a issue why because there is alot of hate to the burbs.People would have been up in arms why would they not build a mega complex in the core.The amount of posts on many sites that is just pure hate such comments as we need to cut services and raise taxes for those not living in the core.

Dado · #27 Posted **Oct 22, 2010, 12:36 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DubberDom

The problem is that DND will eventually displace 10,000 employees who currently have transitway access to a location without effective transit access.

If the Nortel buildings would have been sold to Microsoft and they would open up a new Ottawa lab with 10,000 jobs, it would not be that much of an issue. since these would be new jobs.

You're kind of assuming that the vacated office space downtown will go unused. So long as it is reoccupied at roughly the same job density, there'll be no net job loss in the core.

And are all the jobs that are being moved actually downtown?

At least with the feds buying that campus, some pressure can be put on them to help fund an LRT extension further west to Bayshore or even to the campus itself. That kind of political pressure could not be so easily applied if a private sector buyer like Microsoft had bought it.

Maybe it'll even prompt us to reconsider the assumed future route of light rail west to Kanata using the Queensway from Bayshore - perhaps a route like Carling might make more sense, along with another more southerly route. We should also look into a rail bypass of downtown Ottawa to better enable employees from Orleans to get to this location.

If we could roll back time we'd be better off if the Nortel campus had never been built where it is, nor that of JDS in Nepean. There are plenty of other mistakes like these two that litter our landscape as well. But they exist now and there's not a lot that can be done about it, so wishing they didn't exist or ignoring them isn't a viable option either. Of course it would also be best if no more such developments came into being.

Uhuniau · #28 Posted **Oct 22, 2010, 3:49 AM**

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Originally Posted by DubberDom

I find it quite surprising that all the "urban intensification" advocates on this board are not all up in arms.

I reject the premise of your surprise!

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Furthermore, PWGSC is building a new DND site in Hull on de la Carriere with barely any rapid transit access available from the Ottawa side.

And right next to the rail line that the idiots in Gatineau relocated to build their Crappybus.

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If the Feds are moving out to the suburbs or away from the Transitway lines, should they not be responsible to ensure proper transportation infrastructure is in place?

Yes. But it's being done by a Conservative government, which has a very strong interest in making cities as car-dependent and suburban as possible. That's why the RCMP ended up where they did.

Quote:

If I were mayor, I would insist that all new Federal Government buildings should be located within 400m (give or take) of a transitway station.

Starting by building up Tunney's more densely. That median thing is a waste of land.

Uhuniau · #29 Posted **Oct 22, 2010, 3:52 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DubberDom

If the city wants intensification, they need to stop their focus on restricting housing developments, and instead focus on driving more intensified commercial office & retail development around the core/transitway.

No, they need to start driving more intensifed and diversified development - commercial, retail, institutional and residential - around the core/transitway.

But the suburb-oriented council, the suburb-oriented feds, and the car-fixated anti-urban NCC, won't go for it. Ottawa is screwed.

Uhuniau · #30 Posted **Oct 22, 2010, 3:53 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug

The Carling Campus had a better food court than most malls - no need to drive anywhere.

Oh, a lovely, charming, food court.

Doug · #31 Posted **Oct 22, 2010, 4:21 AM**

The location of the Carling campus is due to the NCC, which offered subsidies starting back in the 1950's.

eternallyme · #32 Posted **Oct 22, 2010, 3:29 PM**

This is something I have wanted for a long time. If they would move their entire office out of downtown, then I think it is a genius idea. Having the DND HQ right downtown, quite simply, is too big of a security threat in the post-9/11 world. The location abutting the Greenbelt is much more secure and ideal for such.

As for the existing DND HQ, it would be MUCH more useful as a civilian office complex, or even a new hotel (although downtown Ottawa doesn't need more hotels - the suburbs badly do though).

As for transit access, I would create new 96 SPECIAL trips to service the DND HQ from the Transitway (terminating at DND), plus increase service on the 169 from Kanata (depending on passenger counts, could terminate at DND as well). Route 166 could also provide service, although it might have to be kept on Moodie Drive in periods of higher security (since it would be too much to ask for credentials when on a through bus for local communities). Route 182 would also be available on Carling Avenue.

Dado · #33 Posted **Oct 22, 2010, 5:46 PM**

DNDHQ should be demolished and turned into a terminus-style station for high speed rail. Some reworking of Colonel By Drive and Nicholas would be required of course, but the problem of Nicholas and through traffic to Quebec should be addressed anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

And right next to the rail line that the idiots in Gatineau relocated to build their Crappybus.

It's cRapibus!

When it comes to transit in the NCR, this is what comes to mind:

Ottawa & Gatineau: Dumb & Dumber

eternallyme · #34 Posted **Oct 22, 2010, 7:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dado

DNDHQ should be demolished and turned into a terminus-style station for high speed rail. Some reworking of Colonel By Drive and Nicholas would be required of course, but the problem of Nicholas and through traffic to Quebec should be addressed anyway.

It's cRapibus!

When it comes to transit in the NCR, this is what comes to mind:

Ottawa & Gatineau: Dumb & Dumber

It doesn't even need to be fully demolished for that, just they would need to re-work the lower floors.

McC · #35 Posted **Oct 22, 2010, 7:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by eternallyme

It doesn't even need to be fully demolished for that, just they would need to re-work the lower floors.

would it even need that? couldn't you just build a new station in the parking lot on east side of the building?

eternallyme · #36 Posted **Oct 22, 2010, 11:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by McC

would it even need that? couldn't you just build a new station in the parking lot on east side of the building?

You'd need a large lobby for the high passenger counts.

I'd rather use the Government Conference Centre as a train station (restore it) but it would require an underground connection.

Uhuniau · #37 Posted **Oct 23, 2010, 4:04 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by eternallyme

This is something I have wanted for a long time. If they would move their entire office out of downtown, then I think it is a genius idea. Having the DND HQ right downtown, quite simply, is too big of a security threat in the post-9/11 world.

I don't believe DND is any more or less of a security issue now, than at any time on or before September 10, 2011.

Uhuniau · #38 Posted **Oct 23, 2010, 4:05 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dado

It's cRapibus!

When it comes to transit in the NCR, this is what comes to mind:

Ottawa & Gatineau: Dumb & Dumber

Dumb et plus dumb!

Can we have 73 municipalities plus the RMOC plus CUO back? Things worked better then than now! Just get rid of the NCC...

gjhall · #39 Posted **Oct 23, 2010, 3:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by eternallyme

You'd need a large lobby for the high passenger counts.

I'd rather use the Government Conference Centre as a train station (restore it) but it would require an underground connection.

In a city that thinks tunnels are an unproven technology, my hopes aren't high, but that would be the right thing to do. What comes to mind is the redevelopment of St Pancras in London that smartly integrated a new HSR terminal onto a great old train station. A huge glass domed structure with views of the city and the canal would be an incredible gateway to the city.

rodionx · #40 Posted **Oct 23, 2010, 6:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DubberDom

It looks like PWGSC is buying up the Nortel Campus and will likely consolidate various DND groups into the location.

I find it quite surprising that all the "urban intensification" advocates on this board are not all up in arms. I often get accused of being some sort of pro-sprawl advocate (which is not true), and here is a prime example, once again, of the Federal Government buying up land and moving jobs away from the core into areas not currently accessible through direct rapid transit from all parts or the city.

It's a good point. I've had not one but two of the organizations I worked for move out to the suburbs - one to outermost Gatineau and the other to Kanata. In both cases, I just found a job closer to downtown. Lots of people did the same. Organizations that move out of the core should brace themselves to lose a LOT of people.

The flip side is that as a downtown resident, I don't get a lot of benefit from those office buildings in the core. Transit links, yes, but I also get thousands of suburban dwellers driving in and out of my neighbourhood every weekday, and not leaving much behind except fumes and shuttered storefronts. I'd rather see more residential condo towers in the core than office towers. Maybe not to Vancouver-like extremes, since a lot of people live downtown to be near work (self included), but the loss of commercial tenants ain't all bad.