Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

The problem is that the entire train considered as a unit is less reliable than individual cars or car pairs, and to compensate for the poorer reliability you need to have a higher percentage of spares. So the net effect is a higher capital investment required for the fleet.

The big question is whether the percentage increase in capacity is as large as the percentage increase in fleet cost.

Another downside is that if you size the trains for peak loads then it may be uneconomical to run them at decent frequencies off-peak.

I do agree which is why translink as decided to do the 2-2 setups instead of 1 long train with the C-Car in the middle. As I said above with the 2-2 setup they can always disconnect one set from another set. Both sets are not taken out of service if one of the sets is having mechanical problems.

[Overground]

Ya LU has always had armrests for longitudinal seating on tube stock and subsurface stock as long as I've remembered. Those Piccadilly 1973 stock were refurbed about 10 years ago btw.

If you want to see some nice trains and seating check out LU's newest S Stock used on the four subsurface lines. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_S_Stock

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

The Tube is crowded because all the tunnels are quite small diameter and circular. This means that near the doors, the train body has to be curved. If you're average height, the door can trap your hair or hat.

It means that it was cheaper to build ( smaller diameter tunnels ) but it also means that trains have much less clearance:

So...in that picture where's the emergency/maintenance walkway in the tunnel?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by mr.x

So...in that picture where's the emergency/maintenance walkway in the tunnel?

Nice joke.

Go to Europe and you'll see a lot of why zwei's transit fantasies aren't reality here. The tube is cool and all, but extremely claustrophobic, nothing near accessible, and probably break every fire and safety code we have here.

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by Overground

Ya LU has always had armrests for longitudinal seating on tube stock and subsurface stock as long as I've remembered. Those Piccadilly 1973 stock were refurbed about 10 years ago btw.

If you want to see some nice trains and seating check out LU's newest S Stock used on the four subsurface lines. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_S_Stock

Interesting link. So an 8-car train can hold 306 sitting and 1226 standing passengers. That is about 38 seats/car and 153 standing/car. That's similar to the new MK II cars.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Nice joke.

Go to Europe and you'll see a lot of why zwei's transit fantasies aren't reality here. The tube is cool and all, but extremely claustrophobic, nothing near accessible, and probably break every fire and safety code we have here.

There is a door on the end (that's only, what, a couple hundred feet through a crowded train) - probably also why Toronto's new subway cars have an emergency door at the nose of the articulated train.

Also, I guess the arm rests are to prevent people from sliding side-to-side into each other when the train stops and starts.

[twoNeurons]

The original MkI had 'em too... albeit AFAIK they've never been used.

[xd_1771]

All the buses today have been saying "Amber alert: Tune to radio" where the route number would normally show; at least, in Surrey.
Anyone know why this is?
I've heard it was a child abduction but I doubt that this seriously could have gotten so much attention to get put on buses and get all the realtors including my own mom paged. I was thinking more of a weather thing, it does look mightily cloudy outside.

[Gordon]

The Amber ALert was for an abducted boy in Victoria.

[CLC]

Letter to Chilliwack Progress: TramTrain a better investment

Re: If they build it , will we ride? (Chilliwack Progress, Oct. 15). Mr. Blacklock raises some interesting points about the proposed Rail for the Valley TramTrain.

The scope of the study was technical, to see the feasibility of reinstating the previous interurban operation with modern TramTrain and the result was, the reinstating a TramTrain service was an affordable option.

Let us compare the Canada Line with the RftV basic Diesel LRT (TramTrain) option.

The Canada Line cost over $2.5 billion to date and has 90,000 boardings daily, which translates roughly to 40,000 to 45,000 actual people taking the new metro - but 35,000 or more were previous bus users now forced to transfer onto the Canada Line. Actual new ridership on the metro is less than 10,000 people.

The Rail for the Valley/Leewood Report cost for a basic Diesel/hybrid option, Scott Road to Chilliwack at $500 million or one fifth the cost of the Canada Line metro. If TransLink thinks that under 10,000 new passengers on a $2.5 billion metro is successful, as recently reported in local papers, then logic dictates that a TramTrain operation costing $500 million or one fifth the cost of the Canada Line would need under new 2,000 passengers a day to be deemed equally as successful!

All passengers on the TramTrain would be new!

As the RftV TramTrain would service several city centres and universities and colleges along its route, initial ridership is anticipated to be triple or quadruple, the 2,000 new passengers a day figure.

As for bus rapid transit or BRT, the question is, where has it worked? To be truly rapid, BRT must have expensive exclusive rights-of-ways to operate, thus driving up the costs considerably.

Ottawa is a good example. After building BRT instead of LRT in the mid-80’s, which cost more than originally planned for light rail, ridership on the BRT and regular bus lines fell 15.7% from 1986 to 1999!

Today, Ottawa operate a TramTrain line and instead of investing in further BRT, the city is now building with modern light rail!

Malcolm Johnston

Light Rail Committee

Rail for the Valley

My brain is too tired to judge if the red highlighted part is logical.

[jlousa]

This is what a $54 Property tax would get us, Translink has not written it off quite yet, contrary to what the mayors want. The below list says alot about what Translinks views as acceptable for Surrey, meaning that an extension of the M-Line along Broadway doesn't need to be as far off as recently imagined.

The Evergreen SkyTrain Line (between Lougheed Town Centre and Coquitlam Town Centre.

Phase 1 of the North Fraser Perimeter Road (connecting United Boulevard in Coquitlam to Brunette Avenue in New Westminster)

Increasing the capacity and updating the Main Street, Metrotown, Surrey Central, and New Westminster SkyTrain stations to accommodate more passengers and make it easier to use the stations.

Introducing new bus rapid transit services South of the Fraser:
on King George Boulevard, connecting Surrey Central to White Rock
On 104th, connecting Guildford to Surrey Central
On Highway 1, connecting Lougheed Town Centre to Surrey Central and Walnut Grove.

Increasing bus service around the region to improve reliability and reduce crowding and serve new demand from population growth and the expanded student U-Pass program.

Introducing a local bus service connecting White Rock Centre to Langley City Centre.

Upgrading the Lonsdale Quay bus exchange to improve safety and the passenger environment.

Restore funding to the Major Road Network from $10 million to $20 million per year.

Restore funding to the cycling program from $3 million to $6 million per year

[Mac Write]

That's it for $54? How about Skytrain expansion in Surrey and Vancouver, new buses, new Seabuses, more Mark II Skytrain cars, more Roden cars?

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by officedweller

There is a door on the end (that's only, what, a couple hundred feet through a crowded train) - probably also why Toronto's new subway cars have an emergency door at the nose of the articulated train.

Also, I guess the arm rests are to prevent people from sliding side-to-side into each other when the train stops and starts.

yah gawd it can stop suddenly! me and my luggage were having fun the one trip - you definately have to hold on

some of the newer lines are much more spacious - i kind like the piccadily line though its always an adventure - you see all walks of life using the tube and they all stand or sit whatever they can

[officedweller]

What I don't understand is the velour seat cushions...

[SFUVancouver]

The $56 quoted by Translink works out to the average household shouldering an additional 15 cents a day in exchange for a new SkyTrain line, B-Line services south of the Fraser, a whole whack more bus service for students, and capacity upgrades for the region's busiest SkyTrain stations, of which all but one are outside the City of Vancouver. That's an incredible bargain and I said so at the Translink Transportation Fair this weekend and via the online Translink Listens survey.

While at the Translink event I asked one of the more senior people what the plan was for naming the VCC-Clarke to Lougheed section of the SkyTrain network after the Evergreen Line opens. He said the working plan is to rebrand that entire section to Evergreen Line and restrict the Millennium Line brand to the Lougheed to Waterfront via Columbia route.

[hollywoodnorth]

http://www.canada.com/chilliwacktimes/news/story.html?id=426a7f6c-6d9b-4723-ac44-616102fa46e3

is the above link a story that features a photo of Malcolm Johnston??

I realllly want to know what this nutter looks like

[Metro-One]

We already know what he looks like......



hehe

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by CLC

Letter to Chilliwack Progress: TramTrain a better investment


My brain is too tired to judge if the red highlighted part is logical.

The numbers are made up. Malcolm is trying to say since is nice tram train would only cost 1/5th the cost of the Canada Line. And since he comes up with the idea that the Canada Line as only 10,000 new riders and it is a success. That his new line to Chilliwack should only need 2,000 riders and be considered a success.

Of course he is twisting things around. The success of the Canada line isn't how many new people it has attracted. It is the fact that it has already broken the 2013 100,000 for being break even.

[eduardo88]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

The $56 quoted by Translink works out to the average household shouldering an additional 15 cents a day in exchange for a new SkyTrain line, B-Line services south of the Fraser, a whole whack more bus service for students, and capacity upgrades for the region's busiest SkyTrain stations, of which all but one are outside the City of Vancouver. That's an incredible bargain and I said so at the Translink Transportation Fair this weekend and via the online Translink Listens survey.

While at the Translink event I asked one of the more senior people what the plan was for naming the VCC-Clarke to Lougheed section of the SkyTrain network after the Evergreen Line opens. He said the working plan is to rebrand that entire section to Evergreen Line and restrict the Millennium Line brand to the Lougheed to Waterfront via Columbia route.

So a Millennium Line train running westbound past Lougheed would automatically become an Evergreen Line train? Or would they just terminate at Lougheed?

[nname]

Originally Posted by cabotp

The numbers are made up. Malcolm is trying to say since is nice tram train would only cost 1/5th the cost of the Canada Line. And since he comes up with the idea that the Canada Line as only 10,000 new riders and it is a success. That his new line to Chilliwack should only need 2,000 riders and be considered a success.

hmm... according to his logic, I can buy a community shuttle bus for 1/20000th of the cost and run it to Chilliwack. If it gets a rider every second day while running empty all other times, it would also be a success, right?