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  #1561  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2010, 8:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckey View Post
No I think Print is on the way out. I do not think a new libarary is needed at all. we have great libraries at Dal and SMU that should be open to the public. I heard they were open for students to study. IN my ten years there I think I stumbled across one once by mistake ( joke on my lack of good study habits)
I study at the Sexton Campus and I don't know what to tell you - whenever I go to the library I almost always have a hard time finding a desk.

As for print being on the way out, I don't buy it, especially with regard to academia. The amount of published material out there is simply too vast for it to be even begun to be comprehensively categorized electronically and there's always going to be a need to access supposedly outdated media in acdemic/professional fields (Dalhousie's architecture program is highly respected specifically BECAUSE of its focus is on traditional media). Just because you can buy the latest John Grisham novel off of your iPad dosen't mean that books at large are about to become extinct any time soon.
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  #1562  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2010, 9:01 PM
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^Well at least I'm not the only John Grisham fan.

I actually prefer having a book to read than a novel on a iPad or a computer. I'm sure plenty of people feel the same way and well there are other benefits of having a library.
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  #1563  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2010, 9:41 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
So what's up with der Kommissar Howard (the duck).........

He seems like a complete rogue agent now. He has shown his true colours and appears to be actually leading the opposition to the new convention centre!

Whatever happened to the party whip? Doesn't the NDP realize the potential damage to their party of having significant internal dissention on this issue?

Halifax after all is the NDP's citadel, its bastion...........if the party doesn't present a unified front on a significant issue affecting it's main base of support, then it really risks a major defeat at the next election.

Of course, it doesn't affect me.......I don't even live in the province and I tend to be a Tory but I find this entire scenario fascinating.

Dexter has to muzzle der Kommissar quickly, or else kick him out of caucus.
He's not in caucus and this is why - but that's exactly what I said earlier. He needs to be expelled from the party. I won't go on a tear like I did previously; but if I come back - I'd even support a PC candidate and knock on doors to get rid of Howard.
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  #1564  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2010, 9:57 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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I've been thinking this through for a few days now and from a design perspective this proposal lacks greatly. We've all pointed out that the street presence on Argyle is poor and should be redesigned.

If the comments earlier are correct and the Rank is only going to give 'token' consideration to any public input then frankly; I'm prepare to switch back to not in support and would sink it on that merit. Don't get me wrong, I think the project is important; but if he's not willing to consider some major planning flaws and wants to repeat the same issues that have come up with the WTCC then no let's not move forward.

I don't mind the issue of the meeting space being in the basement - most of the meeting space in the current WTC is in the basement and the same is true for the Shaw Centre in Edmonton and the same for the Telus centre here in Calgary. I'd also point out that the stampede roundup centre has the meeting rooms at grade BUT the meeting rooms have NO windows. It's only the gathering space that stares out onto the LRT tracks and MacLeod Trail (not really the greatest view).
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  #1565  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2010, 10:06 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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From the opinion section of the Herald Online...

Development must make the most of HRM’s potential


Thu, Oct 14 - 7:03 AM
The future of downtown Halifax requires all of our attention. This is not just Halifax’s downtown, it is Nova Scotia’s downtown — it represents the prosperity and vision of both our province and our city. Consequently, we must ensure that we have a downtown that provides a showcase for our unique qualities and aspirations. Halifax must embrace our collective history, engage our waterfront and express our vision for the future.

So far, Halifax has done well with our waterfront: With expansive boardwalks, public spaces and engaging developments, our waterfront has become our premier destination for tourists and locals.

This kind of quality development needs to continue throughout our downtown; however, we mustn’t accept development purely for the sake of development. New developments will make Halifax a better city only if they represent who we are, celebrating our unique location and culture while respectfully engaging their immediate environments.

Halifax must aspire to improve the quality of our downtown with an emphasis on streetscapes, open spaces, public amenities and environmental sustainability. HRMbyDesign, HRM’s Sustainable Environment Strategy and the Nova Scotia Sustainable Prosperity Act are major initiatives designed to ensure that our new developments proceed thoughtfully, humanely and without long-term harm to the environment and natural beauty that surrounds us.

The proposed Central Library, Citadel High and the Seaport Farmers’ Market are examples of projects that fulfil these community objectives. Through their progressive designs, these projects represent and express our vision as a city, while providing much-needed public infrastructure that supports a healthy and vibrant city.

Most notably, our HRMbyDesign initiatives have recently been recognized by the Royal Architectural Institute of Canada as the most forward-thinking document in Canada with regard to urban design principles and initiatives.

Which brings us to the new convention centre proposal. First, we think a new convention centre is a great idea, possessing tremendous potential to inject economic and cultural vitality into the downtown core. Convention centres consistently attract large gatherings that have the potential to support other development and business. A new convention centre in downtown Halifax has the potential to bring many new visitors from around the world to enjoy the natural beauty and hospitality that we are renowned for.

In other port cities, such as Hong Kong, Liverpool, Stockholm and recently Vancouver, their convention centres have become iconic waterfront buildings that help to engage and define the downtown. Regardless of location, our new convention centre must express the uniqueness of Halifax.

Just like the convention centre, our new central library is being built with public money. The library designers are conducting extensive public consultations to ensure the best possible result and a library unique to Halifax. So why isn’t this happening with the convention centre?

This is quite troubling: We are only going to get one crack at this critical part of our cultural infrastructure and we have an obligation to ensure it is the best possible result for the future of our city.

As an idea, a new convention centre could be a win-win-win, especially if it highlights the unique strengths we possess as a city. Unfortunately, the proposed convention centre does not appear to meet these criteria. Simply put, the current proposal will ignore who we are, where we are and what we want to be. As proposed, the project is devoid of context, buried deep underground and highly compromised. Where does it begin to suggest its purpose as a convention centre or as a cultural centerpiece of our region?

We know from experience that well-intentioned, meaningful architecture and urban design can directly contribute to the success of businesses while providing significant public amenity and value. In a city our size, these opportunities are rare and must be taken full advantage of.

How can HRM and the province of Nova Scotia support a subterranean convention centre that will not see the light of day, not engage the downtown, not adhere to HRMbyDesign, not embrace what makes our city unique and not include a public design process? These critical questions need to be addressed before decisions are made that cannot be reversed.

We want to see more development in our downtown. However, we have an obligation to each other to ensure that it is appropriate and aspires to a greater vision. If we want our city to become great, we need to rely on our elected officials to act with virtue and our citizens to be heard with respect. Halifax has more potential than any other city in this country — it’s time we started reaching for it.

Submitted by Eugene Pieczonka, Keith Tufts and Andy Lynch, principals of Lydon Lynch Architects.

I do agree with some of what they are saying. I don't agree about the meeting space; there are certainly lots of examples in Canada where that's occured (Calgary - Telus Convention Centre and Stampede Round up centre and Edmonton's Shaw Convention Centre).

But certainly updating Argyle to have commercial space would help improve the street there. The Market street frontage perhaps should be where the parking and loading is done considering it's mainly the backs of residential buildings and parking lots anyway?

I totally agree with someone's previous comment about having a roof top balcony and green roof - definate pluses.
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  #1566  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2010, 10:39 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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I think that Rank Inc. must do more to market their proposal. In a picture in the Chronicle Herald last week, it appears as though they do have green roofs. In the rendering below, there is commercial space along Argyle Street. One thing that is absent from the opinion letter by Lydon Lynch Architects is a statement that they are biased since they are a competitor. They also do not point out that the reason for having it built mostly underground is so that Argyle can remain open - not because it is a poor design. I know that almost everyone on this forum liked the design when it was presented. It seems to me that the process has dragged on for so long that everyone is second guessing the province's decision.

I also believe that a convention centre would have looked good on the waterfront but either there was no such proposal or no land existed that was large enough. However, so many people are complaining about the cost, so how much would an iconic building on the waterfront have cost? The Nova Centre is within easy walking distance of the Citadel Hill, Town Clock and the Public Gardens. Aren't these a few features that identify what Halifax is?


Last edited by fenwick16; Oct 15, 2010 at 11:55 PM.
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  #1567  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2010, 11:10 PM
Buckey Buckey is offline
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I am not against design

BUT I dont know squat about design. I think it looks good. I dont like where convention center is in relation to building. I like that banquet hall that is on top or old Chateau Halifax now the delta halifax I think. I was in there for atleast 20 functions great spot for a convention room. Cant say I would be so thrilled being beside the transport trucks dropping off lettuce.

Anyway again no design expert. NOt MY Beef. VIEW LINES - I dont care. if it makes sense make it twenty stories and paint a picture of the bluenose on it and pretend its the harbour.

BUT do not ask me for my personal taxes at the provincial and federal level and my corporate taxes and my property taxes and pay for someone else mortage on a hotel complex where I get the garage for a some spinoffs for the downtown crowd. The spinoffs they all talk abouit are in a cionfined area physically and supplier throught metro.

This business case gets worse every day I look at it from every angle and I have tried and tried and tried to find some value in it. Value for RANK and a boondoggle for everyone else . The cost benefit anayisis I have done with what I can find is beyond ridiculous. Lets can this thing and move on. JOE build you hotel goodonya. IM not paying
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  #1568  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2010, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post
I've been thinking this through for a few days now and from a design perspective this proposal lacks greatly. We've all pointed out that the street presence on Argyle is poor and should be redesigned.

If the comments earlier are correct and the Rank is only going to give 'token' consideration to any public input then frankly; I'm prepare to switch back to not in support and would sink it on that merit. Don't get me wrong, I think the project is important; but if he's not willing to consider some major planning flaws and wants to repeat the same issues that have come up with the WTCC then no let's not move forward.

I don't mind the issue of the meeting space being in the basement - most of the meeting space in the current WTC is in the basement and the same is true for the Shaw Centre in Edmonton and the same for the Telus centre here in Calgary. I'd also point out that the stampede roundup centre has the meeting rooms at grade BUT the meeting rooms have NO windows. It's only the gathering space that stares out onto the LRT tracks and MacLeod Trail (not really the greatest view).
Very very well said.

Herein lies the issue as i see it. If there is changes to the design, i.e. public input then what happens to the bid price? There is already a condition prescedent that the government has till January to proceed or the price changes.
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  #1569  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2010, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckey View Post
This business case gets worse every day I look at it from every angle and I have tried and tried and tried to find some value in it. Value for RANK and a boondoggle for everyone else . The cost benefit anayisis I have done with what I can find is beyond ridiculous. Lets can this thing and move on. JOE build you hotel goodonya. IM not paying
Quite possibly the province and HRM will benefit financially. Would you say "I'm not going to take any money from Rank Inc." As if Nova Scotia can just sit back and take additional transfer payments forever. Ontario is now a have not province - if Nova Scotia doesn't find ways to generate income that source of extra provincial income might run out. So it would really make sense to consider the benefits instead of just saying "I'm not paying"
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  #1570  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2010, 11:47 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Very very well said.

Herein lies the issue as i see it. If there is changes to the design, i.e. public input then what happens to the bid price? There is already a condition prescedent that the government has till January to proceed or the price changes.
What would you change? Would you build it all above ground and close off Argyle Street? You can't have it both ways. And please don't say build it at the Cogswell Interchange - the government is getting opposed based on the current price. How can you propose something that would cost even more. You would have thousands of people in the HRM saying "I'm not paying!
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  #1571  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2010, 11:56 PM
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What would you change? Would you build it all above ground and close off Argyle Street? You can't have it both ways. And please don't say build it at the Cogswell Interchange - the government is getting opposed based on the current price. How can you propose something that would cost even more. You would have thousands of people in the HRM saying "I'm not paying!
Fenwick, i think you are misunderstanding what i am stating.

There is people who want the design to change, of which i am not sure what the changes might be. What i am saying is if changes are to happen, i.e. the public gets its input, then i highly doubt the price will remain the same.

Therefore to me it is evident, and seems to be even with the statements of the developer, that the design is the design.

I like the cogswell site, but again that isn't in the cards right now.
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  #1572  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2010, 12:03 AM
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Herein lies the issue as i see it. If there is changes to the design, i.e. public input then what happens to the bid price? There is already a condition prescedent that the government has till January to proceed or the price changes.
Sadly right now is a terrible time to be asking for public consultation and making changes to the design. This is something that should have happened at the beginning of the process (and there should have been more openness toward using Cogswell and so on). However, if this does go through HRM by Design I could see there being a number of forced improvements. It would be possible to significantly improve upon this design without completely changing it and perhaps without significantly changing the costs.

Not sure about the layout criticisms since I have not seen floor plans. The basement complaint is not valid for some kinds of convention space - even in above ground facilities there are normally no views or natural light. For some of the lobby areas and dining areas and so on it is definitely nicer to have the views although you probably don't want thousands of people having to take elevators or multiple flights of stairs.
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  #1573  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2010, 12:09 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Fenwick, i think you are misunderstanding what i am stating.

There is people who want the design to change, of which i am not sure what the changes might be. What i am saying is if changes are to happen, i.e. the public gets its input, then i highly doubt the price will remain the same.

Therefore to me it is evident, and seems to be even with the statements of the developer, that the design is the design.

I like the cogswell site, but again that isn't in the cards right now.
You are right, I didn't take the time to read your post carefully enough. However, I think we all know that it will be very difficult to get a consensus.

What bothers me the most are the payment terms and it seems to be getting very little attention in the media. The province and HRM would save many millions of dollars by paying as construction proceeds (even if the interest savings that are lost on paying sooner than 2014 is taken into account). In the short term the province and HRM will save money, but in the long term they will lose far more. Even Premier Dexter has stated that there is a real cost to delaying the payments, in an interview with the allnovascotia.com.
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  #1574  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2010, 12:17 AM
Buckey Buckey is offline
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Quite possibly the province and HRM will benefit financially. Would you say "I'm not going to take any money from Rank Inc." As if Nova Scotia can just sit back and take additional transfer payments forever. Ontario is now a have not province - if Nova Scotia doesn't find ways to generate income that source of extra provincial income might run out. So it would really make sense to consider the benefits instead of just saying "I'm not paying"
Fen I am working a new business plan now for a new veture. I have bad news It creates on full time job and one part time job. so too the point. what exactly is ranks risk versus reward here versus the public risk versus reward. not even close.

There is NO EXTRA income being generated here. These numbers are inflated and twisted and full of hype. This looks like a penny stock promotion to get folks to buy in. Once you peel back a layer or two it breaks down. I heard even ferguson was waflling on jobs on radio today. I am convinced the jobs number even divided by ten to equate to annual jobs in NOT FTEs.

IF Ontario is a have not I want NOT. My gawd the place is booming 1000s of homes being built warehouses buildings. I was in awe. And guess what Noone sucking the public TIT. This deal stinks like a corpse - and more rank every day.

I have read every report and every single document on this that is available. If I find out Deloitte's accountant on anylevel I will absilutely go ballistic
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  #1575  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2010, 12:28 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Fen I am working a new business plan now for a new veture. I have bad news It creates on full time job and one part time job. so too the point. what exactly is ranks risk versus reward here versus the public risk versus reward. not even close.

There is NO EXTRA income being generated here. These numbers are inflated and twisted and full of hype. This looks like a penny stock promotion to get folks to buy in. Once you peel back a layer or two it breaks down. I heard even ferguson was waflling on jobs on radio today. I am convinced the jobs number even divided by ten to equate to annual jobs in NOT FTEs.

IF Ontario is a have not I want NOT. My gawd the place is booming 1000s of homes being built warehouses buildings. I was in awe. And guess what Noone sucking the public TIT. This deal stinks like a corpse - and more rank every day.

I have read every report and every single document on this that is available. If I find out Deloitte's accountant on anylevel I will absilutely go ballistic
This is pointless; everything that you say is wrong. Would your name be Bruce?
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  #1576  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2010, 12:37 AM
sdm sdm is offline
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You are right, I didn't take the time to read your post carefully enough. However, I think we all know that it will be very difficult to get a consensus.

.
Hey no problem Fenwick.

One thing that was stated to me today was how this deal now being conditional on the existing trade centre being taken over by the city is a setup by Dexter to maintain that he is pro development as many consider the city to take on the existing centre to be a big hit to the city.
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  #1577  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2010, 12:40 AM
Buckey Buckey is offline
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LOve the folks who decide To just throw out the BRUCE or heritage crap stuff at anyone who decides to think for themselves. That is such complete bullshit. There is nothing worng with walking away from a deal. This is a good deal for RANK. They have a 25 year revenue stream - we have a 25 year cost stream and we pay for it 3 times if you opwn a home in the city. If you own a business you pay 4 times or more. and we will pay like the bridges forever. Lets stop spending tax dollars on foolish ventures
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  #1578  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2010, 12:46 AM
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Any criticism by Andy Lynch that uses Citadel High as a shining example of good architecture cannot be taken seriously.
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  #1579  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2010, 12:46 AM
Buckey Buckey is offline
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Bruce

he actually requested to prsent to council tuesday night but response was written only per agenda. I am against this thing he is my worst ally LOL the old house front #2. Im a money guy I hate pissing it away. WE all may as well line up on argyle and get our money peed all over us
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  #1580  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2010, 12:48 AM
Buckey Buckey is offline
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Any criticism by Andy Lynch that uses Citadel High as a shining example of good architecture cannot be taken seriously.
Is he a losing bidder on the design side of work? IF so he is not objective
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