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  #1981  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2010, 6:41 PM
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Joe Ceci, Ward 9 alderman, has just endorsed his support for Barb Higgins.

djkelly‎: RT @hawk4calgary: Joe Ceci endorses @Barb_Higgins. #yycvote #yyc

I know some have cited her lack of political experience as being an issue. Having two previous alderman (Hawkesworth as well) support her means that they think she can be an effective mayor as a part of city council.
     
     
  #1982  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2010, 6:41 PM
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Originally Posted by fusili View Post
Corndogger is going to be pissed!
Muhahahahahahaha...

@Radley: Bottom line is that you could build an $800M line that serves 30,000 people or a $2B line that serves 90,000 people (just throwing out some numbers here, don't read into it too much). It doesn't hurt to run a study before we commit, and remember that much of the analysis by the experts at the city relies on prior council direction, even if the orders aren't always explicit. I'm pretty confident that the other two candidates wouldn't even request that study.
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  #1983  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2010, 6:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Radley77 View Post
There is also the upside of the Nose Creek route to infill urban sprawl rather than try to fight nimbyism. Midfield Park, and several golf courses are potential spots to infill at a higher density format than Centre Street from a masterplanned approach that has more potential with TOD as well as feeder bus networks and park'n'rides. Infilling inner city sprawl land is tremendously important to addressing affordable housing supply because it allows for more supply to enter the market, a Centre Street route would be impacted by NIMBYism (look at Bridgeland for an example how LRT access increases population - it takes ages for the urban fabric to change compared to a master planned approach). The Nose Creek route would also not limit access to only those using public transit or walking distances.

One is going to spend many times the capital cost, and increased operational costs per hour on implementation of the Centre Street LRT network.

Bob Hawkesworth has been the steward of Calgary's LRT system for years. I am not suprised he is opposed to Nenshi.

A vote for Higgins is a vote to continue the stewardship that has been set for many many years under Hawkesworth's guidance. LRT system requires champions, and it will not be built if every council plans to disrupt long range plans in pursuit of an agenda that is guided by their own ambition and does not consult with the continuity of experts. There have been at least two studies this year that are looking at the NCLRT route alignments.

Please analyse the alternatives: which one is going to be cheaper to build, which one can make use of higher density without issues of NIMBYism so that people can walk to the LRT, which one will allow access to more affordable housing supply, which one can allow access to use as well from park'n'ride system to increase the catchment area?
You are vastly overstating the amount of planning and thought that went into the Nose Creek alignment. The issue was not studied deeply and the route was essentially chosen solely based on the idea that we could never afford subways. No matter which route is ultimately built, more studies will be conducted. Longterm planning is important but so is reevaluation of concepts that may no longer meet fiscal ability and practical concerns.
     
     
  #1984  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2010, 6:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Radley77 View Post
Bob Hawkesworth has been the steward of Calgary's LRT system for years.
Umm... no. He voted against extending the NE LRT to Saddleridge and the NW LRT to Tuscany on Nov. 20 , 2007. Nice and hypocritical when he is, oops, sorry WAS using the SE LRT in his campaign.
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  #1985  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2010, 6:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Radley77 View Post
This is my post on why I think Higgins is fully entitled to lead on the 'smart' vote:

One of the issues I have with Nenshi is his plans to dismantle the Nose Creek alignment for the LRT and the solution that Bob Hawkesworth in consultation with administration transportation have worked on and championed most of his life. I have already expressed that my experience in the oil and gas industry, and future energy concerns is my rationale why I am more supportive of growth that will have a future of relying more on energy-efficient transportation with less reliance on oil and gas. I love Calgary and want an exceptional quality of life to continue here and 25 years from now. Energy problems will become even more acute over this time frame and will cause a re-evaluation in the development path of cities.

If every new council was to go to city hall and dismantle the previous long range transportation plans, the LRT would never have been built. There needs to plan long term for right of ways and alignment which I think at least two plans were approved for right of ways last year including by Harvest Hills as well as by the new science centre. Also, at risk by Nenshi is the LRT connection to the airport via the Nose Creek alignment. It also has the most potential for TOD and to address inner city sprawl (golf courses et al that actually have more development potential).

The bad thing is the City of Calgary only has so much money, so it needs to focus on capital-efficient projects (note there is a huge difference between being cheap and capital-efficient as that one approach considers both the cost and value involved).
For me, this is actually the reason that I hope Barb Higgins does not win the race for mayor. Nenshi has shown a willingness to explore the option of a Centre Street alignment for the NCLRT and I feel that even good ole Dr. No would probably be fairly open to the idea if it was presented as a P3 opportunity alongside the SELRT.

I am a large supporter of Plan It and it is because of this that I feel it's in the city's best interest to re-examine the NCLRT and soon. If you look at the Plan It document, one of the key strategies for curbing growth in the suburbs is to promote the intensification of communities along Centre Street and to create a higher density urban corridor along Centre Street itself. However there is very little direction as to how this will be accomplished.

We both seem to agree that the LRT is one of the best tools the City has to spark increased density. To me, this means that building the NCLRT as a Centre Street subway is the best option for the City to realize one of its main planning goals in the Plan It document. Otherwise, I'm curious how else you feel this density growth will occur along Centre Street? The only other options I can think of is the City spending money on developer incentives and creating heavy-handed policies to manipulate the real-estate market. By building a Centre Street subway and simultaneously creating some guiding policies for development, the City can then walk away and allow the market to run it's course, because growth and intensification will follow the LRT. This will be an organic growth of the communities over time and that will create the best kind of city in the long run... not to mention solving a big transportation problem at the same time!

So why not the current alignment along Nose Creek? Mainly because I think that while your idea of building TOD communities along the route is a great concept, it will not work in practice. For proof, I would turn to the Bridges. It is similar to the kind of TOD community the City would have to build along the Nose Creek alignment. However even though the Bridges has had the full backing of the City and has an amazing location next to downtown, growth and development has stalled. Any TOD in the in the Nose Creek Valley will also suffer from poor location (isolated which means that any sense of place will have to come from the first development phases and nothing more, plus it's next to Deerfoot Trail) and limited access to the City's primary road network (new access to Deerfot would be hard to create which would force the traffic onto the area's already strained road network to get out of the valley.)

Essentially, a Nose Creek NCLRT alignment would just serve as a 'cheap' to construct limited stop express LRT service to the communities north of Beddington Trail and nothing more. It would make the sprawling greenfield communities at Calgary's northern edge more attractive to live in and drive further sprawl in the north, taking us further away from Plan It's ultimate goals. I feel if we are ever going to see the Centre Street urban corridor as envisioned by Plan It, it will only be because of a Centre Street NCLRT subway routing. Barb Higgins doesn't seem to agree, which is why I'd rather see Nenshi or Ric at the helm of the City in the next few years. (yes, I said Ric, scary, I know!) Anyways, just my two cents..
     
     
  #1986  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2010, 6:52 PM
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Exclamation

This Saturday Nenshi will be on CityTV at 1pm for a TV 'Town Hall':

     
     
  #1987  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2010, 6:58 PM
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By the way.. as far as being an election issue (the NC LRT is not), its potential construction date far ahead of the next Mayor's term..
     
     
  #1988  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2010, 7:04 PM
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For an artist only needing to rent one space instead of two can make or break the bank. If it doesn't have much uptake, what is the harm either way?
I am not necessarily opposed. I simply cannot see it making much of a difference either way. It just does not seem to have had a great deal of thought put into it because Calgary is not a city with much opportunity for funky loft neighbourhoods.
     
     
  #1989  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2010, 7:06 PM
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Oh Inglewood..


-mine-
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  #1990  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2010, 7:14 PM
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Oh Inglewood..
Please, please, please put that one on Twitter.
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  #1991  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2010, 7:15 PM
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^^ Go ahead, I don't have twitter
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  #1992  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2010, 7:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Radley77 View Post
LRT system requires champions, and it will not be built if every council plans to disrupt long range plans in pursuit of an agenda that is guided by their own ambition and does not consult with the continuity of experts.
A few things:
  1. What agenda would this be?
  2. Mediocre cities are built when new administrations simply adopt whatever the previous ones did without asking, does it have to be done this way and can it be done better?
  3. A lot of the posters on this forum who support the Centre Street alignment are actually trained experts in this field who rather than being told to study one option, have actually studied multiple options.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Radley77 View Post
Please analyse the alternatives...
I could ask the same, what about the: much larger catchment along the Centre Street corridor; potential for increased development pressure from the development and real estate industries; and lack of potentially high value, City-owned, transit-adjacent real estate used merely as parking (i.e. park 'n' ride lots).
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  #1993  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2010, 7:19 PM
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It is done.
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  #1994  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2010, 7:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby View Post
For an artist only needing to rent one space instead of two can make or break the bank. If it doesn't have much uptake, what is the harm either way?




To get over to the east side of Deerfoot, it is almost a kilometer before you hit the first intersection (considering you have to trek up to the bridge by heading west first). It is only marginally closer for the office park north of sentinel self storage. As for catchment on the west side, that is a fair point, but there is the difficulty of getting people to travel east to go west, and that Bridgeland Station will have at least twice the frequency.

At least the 8th Ave bridge has a pedestrian walkway on it, last time I walked over it in maybe '98 there was no sidewalk.
small tweak, there is actually a nice wide set of stairs on the north side of the bridge, just off the nose creek path. no heading west, just east across the bridge.
     
     
  #1995  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2010, 7:28 PM
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Please, please, please put that one on Twitter.
Gian-Carlo had it up on Twitter last night also.
     
     
  #1996  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2010, 7:37 PM
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By the way.. as far as being an election issue (the NC LRT is not), its potential construction date far ahead of the next Mayor's term..
The NC LRT is not an election issue, however it is an issue that will be impacted by the next Mayor's term. It now seems that it is almost a given that the $800 million in funding announced by the province will be used towards construction of the SE LRT. This will be one of the very first things the next Mayor and Council will have to deal with. A Centre Street NC LRT alignment would tie in to the SE LRT instead of the current proposal which has the NC LRT sharing track with the NE LRT until the zoo. As a result, the looming discussion over the SE LRT should ideally include a discussion about whether the current NC LRT alignment is really the best one. Personally, I feel that everything is aligning to present the City with the perfect opportunity to construct both the SE and (Centre Street) NC LRT as one large P3 project... all that is missing is a Mayor who can recognize this and jump on the opportunity. Just because potential construction is a long way off as things stand now, doesn't mean it will stay that way. If I remember correctly, there were more than a few infrastructure projects that suddenly found themselves bumped up the priority list because of pressure from the Mayor's office. (the current NE/NW LRT extensions being two of them)
     
     
  #1997  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2010, 7:41 PM
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Does anyone know what Nenshi's stance is on (low income) senior's issues? Barb has a specific point to establish a seniors advisory council. I haven't seen anything specific from Nenshi. I'm taking my non-English speaking grandparents to vote today and while I can just tell them to blindly vote Nenshi, I'd feel a lot better about doing that if I knew what his policy on the matter was.
     
     
  #1998  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2010, 7:41 PM
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So how is any LRT TOD type development going to be better than the Bridges? This was the best case scenario, one had a hospital grounds to do whatever they wanted with that land. How would growth along Centre Street be better when there is even less land available for this kind of development? The Nose Creek route, there are golf courses, one could build a variety of structure that aren't SFH but something in between even that and The Bridges. It has the possibility of being denser than what could be accomplished by infilling Centre Street.

The market doesn't organically infill residential along LRT routes so I doubt that is a realistic growth expectation, just like I don't agree with McIver's comments that a lot of major new activity centres are going to appear on the outskirts of the city. Maybe 25% over 25 years is a reasonable expectation based on what I've seen. This compares against a population growth of 16% overy 19 years in Bridgeland that have had LRT service. Is this reasonable compared to what can be accomplished in greenfield development?

Some of the inner city development opportunities that would help use land more effectively include the Nose Creek route, Currie Barracks, and East Village. This land can be used to address affordable housing supply as well as building a capital-efficient, and lower energy transportation network. In my opinion, this is the low hanging fruit. The Centre Street route is a very nice tasting fruit, but it's at the top of the tree with respect to looking for cost-efficient ways to grow the city... i.e. It doesn't pass the sniff test for me as an engineer that is looking for ideas that are low hanging opportunities.

Does it deserve evaluation? Sure, but I think that money needs to be spent immediately so that there isn't money being wasted on other studies for the Nose Creek route, and I wouldn't spend a truck load of money if the first phase is painfully obvious what the final recommendation would be.
     
     
  #1999  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2010, 7:48 PM
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Okay Radley77,

In a perfect world, I'd grant you that both a Center Street LRT and a Nose Creek LRT would be for the best, and maybe 100 years from now that will happen.

But now, we don't need to TOD Center Street to the same degree, its already medium'ish density and could easily push to even more dense terms organically with an LRT track beneath. Yes nose creek has (to use a monty python term) "vast tracks of land" that could be re-developed into TOD, in this case its about servicing an area that is already at a level that meets the criteria for an LRT, moreso then the West-LRT even.
     
     
  #2000  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2010, 8:08 PM
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Where is the land to support increased density? I've already cited the Bridgeland example, and it's probably about an average community along the LRT line with 16% growth over 19 years.

Where is the operational costs saving to justify implementation of subway system? Even excluding capital costs you are looking at spending more on tunnel HVAC system, more on tunnel lighting system, more on tunnel maintenance, more on tunnel pumping system.

So what is the economic justification for a Centre Street alignment? A Nose Creek alignment can address many of these issues by having larger revenues due to park'n'ride catchment, plus development potential, plus costs less operationally and from a capital perspective.
     
     
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