[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed - Page 73

Buckey · #**1441** Posted **Oct 12, 2010, 9:05 PM**

Even those who are very wise to development projects here on this site and on this thread who have done a good job of analysing the economic impact numbers still seems confused by the jobs number.

SO Like HalifaxBoys who dissected the $1,600 a stay number and I think that is on the high end I found the jobs number absolutely ridiculous but so many everywhere took that number as stated. So in looking at the feasibility studies and the presentation just released This is the Number. Construction over 2-3 years will create 1,000 -1,200 jobs. After that about 1,200 NEW Jobs will be created. The 28,000 number is man years over 10 years and that number is 12,000 INCREMENTAL man years over the ten years. One would assume that is on some sort of increasing scale.

I am not by any means diminishing the impact of 1,200 jobs. The devil is in the details. My concern is about the details on what we are paying for now and in the future and what we are paying for along the way in terms of a dually owned facility of some sort.

Are we paying $160 million for a ground floor or two of convention space ? I am not ready to endorse a project YET. YOu see I may flip flop completely when I see the details.

I was completely reversed on the CWG. Initially and inituatively it was a no brainer - Infrastructure improvements to rec facilities and a great opportunity. The CWG committe went quiet and pissed away $12 Million and the costs ballooned. I then was completely against the CWG

fenwick16 · #**1442** Posted **Oct 13, 2010, 12:18 AM**

Nobody can say that this will be a "sure thing" but there are probably fewer risks than with many other ventures. I believe that the new convention centre will be able to generate $10 - $12 million per year in direct revenue (the current centre is generating $6 million). The yearly expenses including amortization that I heard were about $13.2 million per year for the 2 levels of government - HRM and Nova Scotia ( http://thechronicleherald.ca/Front/1205634.html ). So potentially there could be a couple of million dollars per year shortfall. But if it could even generate 500 new jobs per year (including construction jobs) then that loss would only be $2,000,000/500 jobs = $4,000 per job generated per year. However, additional money will be generated from the personal income tax on those jobs generated. Also money will be generated from the HST. At worst, the province and HRM won't gain any money on the deal but could possibly generate 500 jobs or more. In my opinion, that is an important function of the 3 levels of government. If they can do it and break even overall then they are doing a good job, in my opinion.

worldlyhaligonian · #**1443** Posted **Oct 13, 2010, 1:27 AM**

lol, the fact that the term "man years" has not been protested itself is amazing.

Aside from the comedy, from an economics perspective... the jobs number is more significant when examined in terms of spinoff. Sure, these are all positions (regardless of unit of measure) directly created. Yet, what is being ingored is what I believe to be the value for Argyle Street. I think it will become an even better street and it will be interesting to see weekend conferences go to the various venues across the street on Argyle.

Contrary to HT/STV propaganda, there is no evidence to show that increased foot traffic and density in an area is in any way neutral/negative to a business within close proximity to said area. I think the Carleton stands to gain a signficant amount of business from trade show side meetings and after meeting drinks.

I would say the average amount that somebody spends locally is about what it has been stated to be. If the conference or trade show is really big, there will be other hotels rented. I have seen this from industrial equipment shows.

Right now (and since the shitty Herald Building) Argyle is a wasteland and we are getting 2/3 of the money to do this project from sources other than HRM!

It has a legit open air atirum a street up! This is an amazing project/deal. The fact that it blends will with Purdy's and 1801 and fills out that part of the skyline from both views (because its not blocking anything except Iriving Oil) is just a bonus!

I've never used the awesome banana before.

eastcoastal · #**1444** Posted **Oct 13, 2010, 8:32 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

... Yet, what is being ingored is what I believe to be the value for Argyle Street. I think it will become an even better street and it will be interesting to see weekend conferences go to the various venues across the street on Argyle. ...

I feel as though in order to do some good for Argyle St., that is where the at-grade retail focus should be.

Wishblade · #**1445** Posted **Oct 13, 2010, 2:53 PM**

News is out in the chronicle herald that Darrell Dexter will make the announcement today on whether his government will support the convention centre.

link: http://thechronicleherald.ca/Front/9018222.html

halifaxboyns · #**1446** Posted **Oct 13, 2010, 2:55 PM**

Well it all comes down to today.
Odds on a thumbs up anyone?

fenwick16 · #**1447** Posted **Oct 13, 2010, 3:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

Well it all comes down to today.
Odds on a thumbs up anyone?

By announcing the decision early people will have a chance to participate in public meetings and give ideas on how to improve the design. For example: in order to have a more visible building above ground would people want to sacrifice the Grafton Street pedway? Possibly the building height could even be reduced but with the same square footage - if this would appease some people. Maybe the design could even be simplified to save money. These are just random suggestions - I would be happy with it as it is.

hoser111 · #**1448** Posted **Oct 13, 2010, 3:51 PM**

From the Chronicle Herald:

Premier Darrell Dexter gave the green light to a new downtown Halifax convention centre this afternoon, to the delight of many in the business community, but the chagrin of heritage advocates and other opponents.

The $159-million centre is part of a bigger project by developer Rank Inc. that includes an office tower and hotel. The total price tag is close to $500 million.

Taxpayers would be on the hook for the convention centre portion.

Ottawa will be asked to pay about $47 million in a lump sum when the project would be mostly finished, now scheduled for 2014.

Officials said at a briefing last week that the province and Halifax Regional Municipality would cover the rest of the cost in a 25-year capital lease.

The annual lease payment would be $10.2 million, plus another $2.9 million in annual maintenance and upgrade costs.

The project will be built on the former Halifax Herald Ltd. property.

Supporters say the convention centre will give downtown Halifax a much-needed economic shot in the arm. Opponents question whether there's enough convention business around to warrant the expense, and are concerned the towers with the project will affect protected viewplanes from Citadel Hill to Halifax Harbour.

beyeas · #**1449** Posted **Oct 13, 2010, 3:57 PM**

and now we do the dance of joy!

MonctonRad · #**1450** Posted **Oct 13, 2010, 4:03 PM**

Congratulations!

Hopefully this will be first of several major announcements for downtown Halifax.

cormiermax · #**1451** Posted **Oct 13, 2010, 4:11 PM**

FINALLY!!!

fenwick16 · #**1452** Posted **Oct 13, 2010, 4:19 PM**

Great news!! This is a step in the right direction. Here is a link to the Chronicle Herald story - http://thechronicleherald.ca/Front/9018222.html#comment-9446 . I see that Bruce DeVenne and other opposition voices (including all their pseudo-names) are out in full force letting it be known that they are opposed.

PS: There is also a poll at the end of the story. Right now it is about 2 to 1 in favour.

DigitalNinja · #**1453** Posted **Oct 13, 2010, 4:25 PM**

YEAH!! That's awesome!

So we can see it start in March then! Anyone know if they will start both buildings at the same time or one followed by the other?

fenwick16 · #**1454** Posted **Oct 13, 2010, 4:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DigitalNinja

YEAH!! That's awesome!

So we can see it start in March then! Anyone know if they will start both buildings at the same time or one followed by the other?

As part of the agreement Rank is required to build the hotel with the convention centre but not the office tower. However, Rank Inc. is on record a few days ago stating that they will proceed with the office tower at the same time.

beyeas · #**1455** Posted **Oct 13, 2010, 4:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DigitalNinja

YEAH!! That's awesome!

So we can see it start in March then! Anyone know if they will start both buildings at the same time or one followed by the other?

According to an AllNS article last week they are only contractually obligated to building the hotel and convention centre. This was explained by the province that this is because it is only the CC that is publicly funded and the hotel is physically integral to it, but it does make on worry if they are leaving themselves the loophole to get out of the other tower.

I somehow doubt it though, because I actually would bet on at least one of the banks moving from their current location (RBC for example) and moving into the new office building.

fenwick16 · #**1456** Posted **Oct 13, 2010, 4:39 PM**

Tim Bousquet at The Coast seems to have a whole series of long-winded articles planned: Part I - Why the convention centre sucks, part 1 - http://www.thecoast.ca/RealityBites/archives/2010/10/12/why-the-convention-centre-sucks-part-1

He has all of his cronies on-board. (excuse the sarcasm - is it too early for all in favour of the convention centre to gloat?)