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  #601  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2010, 1:10 AM
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Well, development is not just stalled in Boston. Developers all over the world have projects that have been canceled or are on hold, even as some had already started demolition or foundation work. That Vornado wasn't able to get the Boston development underway should not have been shocking. And if they are able to land a tenant for 15 Penn Plaza, it still has nothing to do with the development in Boston, it's two different cities. There's a tower waiting to go up above the Port Authority Bus Terminal, but likewise, if Vornado gets 15 Penn Built first, its not to say they are overlooking the Bus terminal tower, it's a matter of which can get built first (meaning where the tenants are).
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  #602  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2010, 12:06 AM
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http://www.rwonline.com/article/107530

‘15 Penn Plaza’ Skyscraper Could Affect FM Signals



by Randy J. Stine
10.07.2010

Quote:
A developer’s plan to build a new 67-story building in midtown Manhattan is drawing a closer look from FM broadcasters worried that the structure could partially block their radio transmissions from atop the nearby Empire State Building.

The skyscraper, named 15 Penn Plaza, is to be built just two blocks from venerable Empire, home to most main FM and television broadcast antennas in the city.

Vornado Realty Trust is the developer behind the proposed $3 billion project, which has gained city council approval but likely is years from completion. Company officials have indicated construction will begin once major tenants are confirmed for the 1,190-foot building. By comparison, Empire is 1,250 feet, plus a 204-foot antenna structure.

Vornado, which says it’s one of the largest owners and managers of real estate in the United States, has 28 office properties in New York City, many in midtown.

The building’s designer, Pelli Clarke Pelli Architects, is known for designing some of the world’s tallest buildings, including the Petronas Towers in Malaysia.

Vornado officials have not indicated an interest in building rooftop broadcast facilities atop the new tower, according to observers.

The Empire State Building is home to 19 FM stations and most of the city’s digital television transmitters. Many radio and television broadcasters migrated there after the collapse of the World Trade Center’s twin towers in the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001 (see sidebar).


Multipath issues are nothing new in the city because of its monstrously tall buildings, but the proximity of the skyscraper to the Empire State Building — approximately a quarter-mile — raises a red flag for some in the broadcast community.

Any nearby obstruction to FM signals from Empire could have a major impact on the radio market, observers said, New York generates the second-most revenue among radio markets in the country, according to BIA/Kelsey.

Some local observers agree that 15 Penn Plaza could “cast a significant signal shadow” southwest of the city, and in particular affect listening in the suburbs.

Jim Stagnitto, director of engineering for New York Public Radio, is concerned about both of his FMs at Empire, WNYC(FM) and WQXR(FM). “WQXR is a low-power Class B and will be especially susceptible to multipath in New Jersey. I’m very concerned. And without a predictive study to examine, we really don’t know how bad it could be,” Stagnitto said.

“It would be a fairly expensive study, but it could make for a good argument on behalf of all the broadcasters [at Empire].”


Watching closely

Tall buildings and mountains that disrupt radio signals sufficiently can cause multipath, in which a listener’s radio receives multiple waves of the same signal.

Several broadcast engineers in the city declined to discuss potential interference issues, citing their tenant relationship with management at the Empire State Building.

Josh Hadden, director of engineering and IT for Clear Channel Radio/New York, said, “We are studying the different potential impacts the building could have on us. We are watching the development of the plan closely.”

All five of Clear Channel’s FMs have transmission facilities on Empire.

Signal reflection will be another concern for broadcasters at Empire, said Tom Ray, vice president and director of corporate engineering for Buckley Radio’s WOR(AM) in New York City and a Radio World contributor.

“There certainly could be some reflection in the opposite direction that could cause multipath,” he said.

Another broadcast engineer in the city believes the new building “won’t create a real concern” but notes it will be difficult to test for potential issues in advance of construction.

“There will be some dramatic shadowing on the west side of Manhattan (from Empire) by the new building, but there isn’t much there anyway. You have Penn Station, the post office and then the Hudson River, and that’s about it,” the engineer said.

A different broadcast engineer raised the issue of radiofrequency exposure posing a risk to the inhabitants of the top floors of the Vornado Realty Trust building because of its proximity to the Empire broadcast platform, but said the risk could be minimized by using RF-proof glass and non-radiating metal on the top floors of the new building.


Empire’s owners, including co-owner Anthony Malkin, objected to plans for the new building, arguing it would adversely impact the skyline of the city and infringe upon the building’s historical status. The Empire State Building, declared a landmark by the city’s Landmarks Preservation Commission in 1981, was completed in 1931 and had its first broadcast antenna added in 1951. Empire officials declined comment for this story.



A little more...

Quote:
Empire, Durst Facilities Grew After 9/11

New York City’s broadcast communications infrastructure was altered dramatically following the terrorism attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. Dozens of radio and television broadcasters that lost facilities when the twin towers collapsed scrambled to find vertical real estate alternatives.

Since then, Empire’s rooftop facilities have grown to include nearly every radio and television broadcaster in the city. There remains talk among market observers of a rebuild of the master FM antenna at Empire.

“That antenna was not designed originally for that many radio stations. Then you add all of the primary television antennae, which sit on top of the master FM, and it’s likely you need a new tower,” said one broadcast engineer familiar with the facilities.

“Talks are getting a little more serious now. It’s down to the financial issue of who will pay for what.”


The Durst Organization completed a broadcast antenna project atop the Condé Nast Building at 4 Times Square in midtown Manhattan in 2004. That site is used primarily as an auxiliary platform for radio broadcasters and some television stations. Durst officials, like those at Empire, declined comment for this story.

The One World Trade Center project in lower Manhattan, formerly known as the Freedom Tower, is ongoing and could be completed during 2012. The Metropolitan Television Alliance, a coalition of a dozen television stations in New York City area displaced in the collapse of World Trade Center twin towers, had said its members intended to use several of the top floors of One World Trade Center for broadcast and antenna facilities.

However, plans for a rooftop television antenna project there have never been finalized, according to observers.

— Randy J. Stine
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  #603  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2010, 12:22 AM
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‘15 Penn Plaza’ Skyscraper Could Affect FM Signals

More like

'15 Penn Plaza' could affect the ability of my cat to get warm from sunlight between 5pm-5:20pm

NIMBY's Im sure are pulling every argument out of the book to halt this towers construction.
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  #604  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2010, 12:24 AM
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^ Too late for those NIMBYs. Also, they tried that signal thing to block the original WTC constuction. Maybe its time for that ESB antenna upgrade.
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  #605  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2010, 1:23 AM
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Good grief. Just tear down the ESB and then we won't have to listen to the whiners.
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  #606  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2010, 1:30 AM
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and the NIMBY stupidity continues....they really have to stop, over the last couple of decades they've made themselves look truly ridiculous and desperate....
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  #607  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2010, 4:16 AM
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That multi-tenant rendering leaves much to be desired.
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  #608  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2010, 4:20 AM
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No FM radio signals? Ok, just build the tower with an antenna mast problem solved. What will the NIMBYs come up with next, the tower is too close to Midtown??
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  #609  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2010, 1:20 PM
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I don't think there's a major problem with this tower and the ESB antenna signals, just some concern. From the article, the bigger problem seems to be the overcrowding there, and it seems there will be a new antenna built atop the ESB. And from the looks of it, it can use a rebuilding.
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  #610  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2010, 3:30 PM
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When the Twin Towers existed, the ESB had only one transmitter. Once 1WTC goes up, most companies will probably relocate to this modern, higher, less crowded facility, just like they did in the 70's.

Once again, nimby arguments fail.
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  #611  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2010, 2:43 AM
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i like this building a lot, but its gonna really change the skyline from the Jersey side cuz Im from jersey and i always go into the city and love looking at the ESB but when WTC complex is complete thats what everyone is going to be focused on and I also this that area should be gussied up a lot with new tall buildings both residential and commercials. thats just my opinion but i know there are the NIMBYs and the development boards to deal with.
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  #612  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2010, 2:46 AM
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Originally Posted by thelanetrain17 View Post
i like this building a lot, but its gonna really change the skyline from the Jersey side cuz Im from jersey and i always go into the city and love looking at the ESB
What part of Jersey are you from?
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  #613  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2010, 3:00 AM
thelanetrain17 thelanetrain17 is offline
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trenton/princeton area quick train ride.
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  #614  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2010, 3:51 AM
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Originally Posted by thelanetrain17 View Post
trenton/princeton area quick train ride.
So I'm sure you know as well that this tower won't affect the view of the ESB from Jersey. People that don'e really understand the Manhattan skyline complain that it will block the view of the ESB, but reality says and will prove otherwise.
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  #615  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2010, 4:03 AM
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Quote:
What Is the Empire State Building So Worried About? Money

By Matt Chaban
October 8, 2010 | 10:53 a.m.

Will the sun rise again on the Empire State Building?
+Enlarge Getty Images
Maybe there was more than just the skyline when it came to Tony Malkin's fight with Vornado Realty Trust over its proposed 15 Penn Plaza, which will partially obscure views of Mr. Malkin's iconic Art Deco tower. It turns out that Malkin Hoildings made a pretty good return last year of $16 million on the building, doubling its 2008 numbers but still 54 percent off the record set the year before.

But Empire State Building Associates still "failed to accomplish its major financial goal of obtaining large loans to fund an anticipated 10-year, $626 million rehabilitation of the building," according to The Real Deal. That rehab, which includes a major "green" overhaul, is meant to bring the aging building into the 21st century, so it might compete with the likes of 15 Penn and One Bryant Park.

It will never achieve the same rents as those buildings, of course, but the goal is to at least stave off irrelavance and keep occupancies up. As the Deal's Adam Pincus notes, Malkin is holding on, at least for now:

The average annual rent tenants are paying was $29 per square foot in 2009, a decline of $1 per foot compared with 2008 when they were $30 per square foot. Asking rents fell further, to a range of $32 per foot to $52 per foot, as of the end of 2009 compared with $50 per foot to $60 per foot at the end of 2008, the company's SEC filings show.

Still, as yet another high-tech tower comes online, creating more commercial space and pushing buildings more recent than Malkin's out of their Class A position, it becomes all the harder to maintain supremacy — both on the skyline and at the bank.
http://www.observer.com/2010/real-estate/what-empire-state-building-so-worried-about-money
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  #616  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2010, 4:08 AM
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What Is the Empire State Building So Worried About? Money
At the end of the day, that's basically what every argument of this type comes down to.
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  #617  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2010, 3:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
So I'm sure you know as well that this tower won't affect the view of the ESB from Jersey. People that don'e really understand the Manhattan skyline complain that it will block the view of the ESB, but reality says and will prove otherwise.
yeah i know what you mean but i mean on certain angles. But it does not matter i still cannot wait for this building to get built one way or another! haha
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  #618  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2010, 5:17 PM
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Originally Posted by thelanetrain17 View Post
yeah i know what you mean but i mean on certain angles.
What angles?
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  #619  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2010, 6:00 PM
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are they starting construction without a tenant ?
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  #620  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2010, 6:22 PM
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Originally Posted by brian.odonnell20 View Post
are they starting construction without a tenant ?
The hotel remains open for business. Vornado has said repeatedly that they wouldn't start withouth a tenant, so I would expect the hotel to remain open until then.
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