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  #1201  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2010, 7:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stang View Post
What do those names have to do with the rail companies? I think that they're based on the monarchy. Not that we need to honour monarchs with our line names, of course.
Actually, only the Jubilee was named in honour of a monarch; the Victoria line was named after the station. Most of them are named after their original operators:

Bakerloo Line = Baker Street & Waterloo Railway
District Line = Metropolitan District Railway
Hammersmith & City Line = Hammersmith and City Railway
Metropolitan Line = North Metropolitan Railway
Piccadilly Line = Great Northern, Piccadilly and Brompton Railway
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  #1202  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2010, 8:35 PM
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Speaking of the NE station upgrades are they using some sort of composite material for the decking? I seem to remember something like that mentioned a long time ago.
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  #1203  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2010, 9:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffwhit View Post
Speaking of the NE station upgrades are they using some sort of composite material for the decking? I seem to remember something like that mentioned a long time ago.
The CCC meeting notes say that the composite decking idea was abandoned. The decks are on the new stations, and they are precast concrete.
     
     
  #1204  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2010, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riise View Post
Colours and numbers are probably the all-round best but I do like names. When I was going to Uni last year I enjoyed taking the Victoria line to the Jubilee line. Since Calgary doesn't have any rail companies to derive the names from, they could use animals and colours. You could have:

The Monkey Line
The Elephant Line
The Flamingo Line
The Dove Line
The Smurf Line
I think that numbers work better because it's easier for people who don't speak the local language to get around the system. Named lines only work well for people who actually speak the language, so especially in cities where tourism is big business, I think numbered lines are better.

I should also point out that colours do actually work pretty well. Shanghai has got 12 lines currently with another full line under construction, and the colours for each are pretty distinctive.

Line 1 - Red
Line 2 - Green
Line 3 - Yellow
Line 4 - Purple
Line 5 - Maroon
Line 6 - Magenta
Line 7 - Orange
Line 8 - Blue
Line 9 - Sky Blue
Line 10 - Lavender
Line 11 - Brown
Line 12 - Forest Green (under construction)
Line 13 - Pink

You'd have to be pretty much colour blind to get them confused.
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Last edited by The Chemist; Oct 9, 2010 at 12:29 AM.
     
     
  #1205  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2010, 3:42 AM
Robert in Calgary Robert in Calgary is offline
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Originally Posted by hulkrogan View Post
I always hear people on the platform asking "Is this a Northeast train?".
We'll have to start putting the lines underground to fix that.

One line per avenue.
     
     
  #1206  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2010, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by The Chemist View Post
I think that numbers work better because it's easier for people who don't speak the local language to get around the system.
Indeed, that's why I said colours and numbers are the best all-round. Names are just a personal preference although I don't mind if they aren't adopted. It would be super cool if we had a Monkey Line though!
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  #1207  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2010, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Riise View Post
Indeed, that's why I said colours and numbers are the best all-round. Names are just a personal preference although I don't mind if they aren't adopted. It would be super cool if we had a Monkey Line though!
I must admit, named lines do add a bit of flair to a metro system. And London's got some of the best, especially (IMO) Picadilly and Bakerloo.

Plus the Underground is home to my favourite named Metro station anywhere - 'Elephant and Castle'.
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  #1208  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2010, 5:25 PM
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Originally Posted by The Chemist View Post
Plus the Underground is home to my favourite named Metro station anywhere - 'Elephant and Castle'.
My favorite metro station name is one in Barcelona called "Urquinaona", which is just really awesome to say in Spanish.
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  #1209  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2010, 8:54 PM
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I don't think named lines are terribly difficult for tourists, just like the "Urquinaona" above, I have no idea what it means, no idea how to pronounce it, but it would be simple to identify on a map or a train.
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  #1210  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2010, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by DizzyEdge View Post
I don't think named lines are terribly difficult for tourists, just like the "Urquinaona" above, I have no idea what it means, no idea how to pronounce it, but it would be simple to identify on a map or a train.

That is true, because it's at least written in the Latin alphabet. I think people used to the Latin alphabet would have much more difficulty with line names in Cyrillic or in Chinese, Japanese, or Korean, however.
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  #1211  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2010, 7:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Chemist View Post
That is true, because it's at least written in the Latin alphabet. I think people used to the Latin alphabet would have much more difficulty with line names in Cyrillic or in Chinese, Japanese, or Korean, however.
I think Cyrillic/Greek wouldn't be too bad being that they and Latin are all based on the ancient Phoenician, but the Asian ones would be difficult.
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  #1212  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2010, 2:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DizzyEdge View Post
I think Cyrillic/Greek wouldn't be too bad being that they and Latin are all based on the ancient Phoenician, but the Asian ones would be difficult.
Actually, Cyrillic looks nothing like our alphabet, and would be unreadable for anybody who doesn't know it. It may as well be Chinese.


See the wikipedia article on Calgary Transit, in Russian, here.
     
     
  #1213  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2010, 2:51 PM
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While you wouldn't be able to read it, a lot of the characters are familiar enough that it creates a mental picture to remember. Chinese character are just a completely different universe to most westerners.
     
     
  #1214  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2010, 3:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DizzyEdge View Post
I don't think named lines are terribly difficult for tourists, just like the "Urquinaona" above, I have no idea what it means, no idea how to pronounce it, but it would be simple to identify on a map or a train.
I speak Spanish, and I had a lot of trouble pronouncing it.
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  #1215  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2010, 8:12 PM
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This was the scene at 7th ave yesterday with the new LRT station and ped bridge. Besides the young woman trying to seduce the cop, there was lots of activity happening.
I have to say that this LRT station backing onto the park will be uber cool when it's all finished.

More images Here (slideshow)






     
     
  #1216  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2010, 9:04 PM
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Thanks for the pics. For those who noticed, yes, those are Epcor trucks working on the caternary. My guess is due to all the caternary work thats going on Enmax must have contracted some of it out to Epcor (who do all the work for the Edmonton LRT like Enmax does here)
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  #1217  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2010, 9:05 PM
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I'm still mystified by the bridge to nowhere.
     
     
  #1218  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2010, 9:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Radley77 View Post
Rapid transit pushes things over the viability threshold?

In 1989, population in Bridgeland was 4,529. In 1985, Bridgeland received LRT service. As of 2008, Bridgeland's population was 5,251.
I was talking about economic viability.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Radley77 View Post
Park'n'rides are a key component of LRT success.
As a commuter rail system. However, if we want it to function more like a light metro a shift in ideology will be required.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Radley77 View Post
Is rail bias going to necessitate spending many times the amount in capital costs and operational costs?
It has in the past and I believe it will continue to do so in the future.
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  #1219  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2010, 11:19 PM
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Also moving the discussion over here:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Radley77 View Post
As for a street car, I think one needs sufficient level of density above single family homes, and Centre street doesn't have a lot of density currently. Street cars I think work well for intraneighbourhood use, whereas LRT works well for interneighbourhood use. Maybe a better application for a streetcar would be to start in the Beltline?
Isn't this a sort of chicken and egg scenario? Running a streetcar where higher density exists will make good use of a streetcar, but running a streetcar where higher density doesn't exist might promote density? particularly on a density-ready corridor like Centre St
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  #1220  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2010, 12:58 AM
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Personally from a development point of view I would rather have a built in population to feed an LRT line than trying to build up several new build TOD villages at once. We can't even get the next two phases of London built, and the next stages of the bridges, who is to say we could build out 4 or 6 TODs from scratch at the same time.

As for the argument of 'the TODs can help pay for the line' well that could be true, but it is no less true than on a Centre St line, you just use different mechanisms to extract the surplus. For Centre St, I could see a TIF-Plus, where you charge a higher mill rate on incremental property value increases on the line and surrounding areas until a certain amount is paid either to the city or a P3 partner.

Beyond construction costs, which we know the underground option is more expensive, there are other important considerations that don't usually appear in an analysis that should:
  • cost to acquire ROW, station lands, and other LRT services in both corridors (especially the ROW will cost a fair amount more, same with stations, look at the tiny foot print of Canada Line stations above ground for example)
  • other corridor costs including opportunity costs of limiting ROW for freight and future passenger rail (how many tracks can the corridor hold realistically? 6?
  • Bus network costs (keeping the existing network south of 96th Ave vs reorienting to feed a Centre St subway)
  • Corridor catchment costs? (does the nose creek line necessitate another LRT line in the central NW in the future that may not be required with a centre st option?)
  • Capacity (big one, the capacity of a Nose Creek line that shares track from the Zoo on will run at at most half capacity of a subway, will that cause a need to build the subway in 30 years anyways?)
  • TOD suitability: most of the land on the west side of Deerfoot in the valley has an airport noise note on the property files with the city, some may have height restrictions too
  • Infrastructure reuse: will we need to build new schools in the TODS potentially instead of reusing old ones in old communities depending on the route?
  • TOD modal share: do TODs near highways have a greater modal split to vehicle use? Transportation economics would say yes, but there are real world examples to examine as well
Now I think we all know the up front sticker price will be higher for a subway, but the long term costs could be lower, or within a window where the marginal cost is worth the marginal benefit (an example of the later would be the additional trenching that was later added to the West LRT). If the long term costs are lower, it would make sense to either borrow now to save later, or form a P3 to save without the sticker shock.
     
     
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