Tim Hortons Field | 40m | ? | Complete

[SteelTown]

Our standards must be really high compared to Toronto.

BMO Field cost $62.5 million for 20,500 seats. Meaning $3195.12 per seat.

Pan Am Stadium cost $160 million for 22,000 seats. Meaning $7272.72 per seat. Almost doubled.

[mattgrande]

I don't see how that can possibly be considered "within grasp."

We still need:
- $35m to just build the stadium
- Untold millions to buy the land
- Untold millions to remediate the land
- Untold millions to move the companies that currently occupy the land

That's one hell of a funding gap.

[SteelTown]

Isn't the Ti Cats going to buy the land?

[highwater]

No. They're only going to by 15 acres next to the stadium to build a hotel and/or entertainment district on. They are not providing any funding whatsoever for the stadium or parking.

[markbarbera]

The total cost associated with acquiring the land (land purchase, remediation, tenant relocation) is likely to come in at $12 million.

The Ticats will be buying up 10-15 acres of the overall property and will be covering the remediation of that part of the property. Their capital contribution to the stadium itself has not yet been finalized - won't be until the province and feds have quantified what additional funds they will be bringing to the table.

[padthai]

I wish they gave some sense of the additional funds needed to build a high-quality, aesthetically-pleasing, 25,000-seat stadium.

If the plan is for a long legacy use, why are we only aiming for bare-bones? At least if we knew what the total cost of that was, we could be asking for more.

My only concern is doing things on the cheap and being stuck with an ugly, poor quality stadium that we can't be proud of.

But I also see our financial situation, and getting just to the bare bones will take some effort. I'll submit a bid for naming rights: "Padthai Field." Do they take debit?

[markbarbera]

If additional funding falls short of what's required to do up a proper 25,000-seat stadium, then build it barebones for PanAm, then leverage a future successful Commonwealth Games bid to improve and expand seating. Of course, that's assuming any future sporting event committee would consider Hamilton as a host after this fiasco...

[mattgrande]

Stadium parking goes from pillar to footnote

Can someone explain to me why, in the days of Google Maps and GPS systems, highway visibility is important?

Or how about how the West Harbour means losing millions no matter what, while the CP lands (only 4km away) means being profitable while also cover operating costs?

EDIT: Another question. If the TiCats are buying the lands for the adjacent businesses, who will be building them and operating them? Are the TiCats going to be operating the convention centre / hotel / whatever else?

[bigguy1231]

It aint happening.

Council is not going to approve this site . The cost of the site will be prohibitive , especially with the Ticats and their imaginary friends in the business community not putting up a dime of their own money for the stadium. There will be no stadium, unless the Ticats decide that the West Harbour is better than nothing.

[markbarbera]

If council truly feels this is too expensive, there will be no stadium at any location. The $35 million financing shortfall is a reality for any site.

[SteelTown]

Ticats need to pay more for stadium: Ottawa

Andrew Dreschel

The federal government wants to see the deadline for stadium talks extended and more money from the Ticats and other private sector partners on the table.

That’s the key message city manager Chris Murray took away from a face-to-face meeting with Gary Lunn, minister of state for sport.

Murray met with Lunn for more than an hour Wednesday to pitch the city’s request for more federal money to bridge the funding gap for a stadium at the CP rail yard on Aberdeen.

He says Lunn has agreed to ask Hostco, organizers of the Pan Am Games, to extend the Oct. 12 deadline to give the city more time to put together a deal for the 53-acre CP site.

“There is recognition that more time is needed and more money is needed, “ Murray said in an interview.

According to Murray, the length of the deadline extension was not discussed but Lunn would intervene “sooner rather than later.”

He says the city will also ask the province, which has already agreed to kick in extra stadium money, to add their voices to the appeal.

Since Hostco is bankrolled by both Ottawa and Queen’s Park, chances are good the deadline will be extended, probably until well after the Oct. 25 municipal election.

That would not only give some much-needed breathing space for negotiations, it would be a huge political benefit for sitting councillors since they would not have to decide on the controversial issue before voters go to the polls.

Meanwhile, Murray says the feds are willing to continue discussing the city’s funding request, but they also want to see more “chairs around the table.”

.........................

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/ar...stadium-ottawa

[SteelTown]

Pan Am boss praises city

John Kernaghan
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/ar...s-praises-city

Hamilton’s “rocky progress” on a critical piece of the Games footprint has made a commendable stride forward, says Pan Am boss Ian Troop.

But any further delays on the 2015 soccer facility after several missed deadlines would be risky business, he said.

“Our people are concerned that if this was pushed into the new year we’ll be up against it and have a high risk of not being able to deliver for test events in 2014 and maybe not even for late spring of 2015,” HostCo CEO Ian Troop said. “That puts us in pretty dire straits.”

He was speaking in a media teleconference Thursday following a Toronto 2015 board meeting in which he laid out on-time progress on the two other major Games projects, the athletes’ village and the aquatic centre in Scarborough.

Troop’s comments follow a letter from him to city manager Chris Murray stressing the west-end CP property the city and the Tiger-Cats football team are hoping to land must be remediated and shovel-ready by April 2012.

The city is facing an Oct. 12 deadline, the latest following several extensions, to make a stadium commitment. That’s the last council meeting before the Oct. 25 municipal election.

Troop said the recent accord between Hamilton and the football club is “landmark progress” and said the more utilitarian stadium concept contemplated, something in the mould of Toronto’s BMO Field, would be fine with the Games’ organizing committee.

The city and the Tiger-Cats still have to find a way to make up a $35-million funding gap on the stadium and also purchase land, pay for relocation of some businesses and clean up the rail yards site. That could cost between $20 million and $30 million.

The price of a 25,000-seat stadium in 2012 dollars is $160 million but the money committed by all levels of government is $125 million.

The Tiger-Cats have not made a financial commitment to date but are prepared to buy between 15 and 20 acres adjacent to the stadium site to develop and reluctantly agreed to manage the facility.

In another vein, Troop laughed off criticism of Toronto 2015’s new logo, a take on aboriginal art that shows an athlete and a ball and forms a T and O, a nod to Toronto’s nickname.

“Everyone is an art critic. I’m sure everyone will come to love it.”

In a separate interview, board chair Roger Garland said Wednesday’s brand launch was a key moment in terms of going after sponsors.

“It’s important to have this visibility now as we go out to the market and develop $150 million in revenue streams we have in our budget.”

Garland pointed out the success sponsors enjoyed in Vancouver for the Winter Games this year will benefit the Pan Ams.

“Some of the sponsors who took a leap of faith in Vancouver were by and large pleased with the results. Now I think they see another opportunity in five years in a much larger market.”

[matt602]

Originally Posted by mattgrande

Stadium parking goes from pillar to footnote

Can someone explain to me why, in the days of Google Maps and GPS systems, highway visibility is important?

It's not nearly as much about transportation as it is about making sure the thousands of cars that pass each day on the highway see the stadium, banners and advertisements. Notice how when major highways cross through urban areas, theres a sea of giant, tall billboards everywhere? Companies pay out the ass for that exposure. The ones along the Gardiner are probably VERY expensive to get space on.

I don't really agree that it should be as much of a priority as it is, but alas. It also ties into the fact that most highways don't actually pass through urban areas but rather skirt along suburban areas where there is usually giant swaths of greenfield to develop (for a stadium, as example).

[bigguy1231]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

If council truly feels this is too expensive, there will be no stadium at any location. The $35 million financing shortfall is a reality for any site.

It will be more like $60-$70 million if the CP site is chosen. The Steelcare building alone is worth $20 million and they would have to be relocated.

[markbarbera]

The total costs associated with acquiring the CP land are estimated to be between $12 and 20 million, including the property Steelcare leases.

Here's a cost-savings idea that could be a fallback should all the outstanding financing not be realized before the October 12th deadline - phase the construction. Design the stadium to be twin grandstands on either side of the playing field and lay the foundation accordingly. Use all secured financing to build a permanent grandstand on one side of the field that will house the press box, luxury boxes and the players facilities. Place temporary seating on the opposite side and plan to upgrade to a permanent grandstand once additional funding is secured.

Of course this is just a plan B scenario. I've got a feeling the financing shortfall will soon be resolved. There's a genuine willingness from all parties to make this happen.

[realcity]

I trying to determine how many deadlines have we had? 5 or 6? including the Oct 12 one? Anyone know?

Now we're looking at another deadline after the election?

I thought council's job was to make decisions?

Now I'm wondering why our Council had such an important factor in determining this location. I didn't once read about Toronto's city council struggling with PanAm events. Eg. The track and field games went straight to York, no Toronto council debates, it just went there .... i don't recall Toronto Council arguing over that? Shouldn't this process have been between City Management and Hostco? Obviously council has no idea about city planning or running a business. I'm not sure what they do anymore, if it's not to make decisions.

[SteelTown]

City of Toronto is paying $0 for the track and field event.

[mattgrande]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

City of Toronto is paying $0 for the track and field event.

Where's the money coming from? Feds? York U?

[bigguy1231]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

City of Toronto is paying $0 for the track and field event.

Because it's Toronto. As usual we have to jump through hoops to get anything out of the upper levels of government.

I have been asking all along why are we being forced to follow a different standard than other cities when it comes to games funding or for that matter facilities funding.

All other cities that have held games were told they had to have legacy's. But none were told they had to cater to the needs of a professional sports team. Funding was also on the basis of each level providing 1/3 of the funding. We are paying 45% and maybe more. Why are our politicians not questioning this arrangement.

[markbarbera]

I am not sure where the idea of 1/3 funding from each level of government comes from, but it isn't in place for any Pan Am facilities that I know of.

The funding formula for the track stadium are the same as for all other facilities, except in this case it is the university in partnership with Hostco rather than a municipality. York University is covering 44% of the cost of the new facility, and the university will assume full ownership of the facilities when competed. This is practically the same funding formula for all new facilities being built for the Pan Am Games, including Hamilton's Pan Am stadium.

At the end of the day, the deed for Hamilton's Pan Am Stadium will be handed to the city when completed, even though the city is providing less than half the cost to build the stadium. In this sense of the arrangement, Hamilton certainly is not being hard done by at all.