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  #581  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2010, 4:53 PM
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Any one slightly amused by them including Verre and C57 as bulky towers?
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  #582  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2010, 8:37 PM
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Any one slightly amused by them including Verre and C57 as bulky towers?
The two of those together won't be the size of one of the office towers.
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  #583  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2010, 5:13 AM
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The two of those together won't be the size of one of the office towers.
I think residential supertalls may soon outnumber office supertalls in NYC, depending on the success of Carnegie 57... not to get too off topic, but if C57 is successful it shows the market is really there for these kinds of buildings, and they're much cheaper to put up than the gargantuan office towers.
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  #584  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2010, 3:41 PM
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Originally Posted by scalziand View Post
Any one slightly amused by them including Verre and C57 as bulky towers?
Very amusing
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  #585  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2010, 1:09 AM
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To Vallone, 15 Penn Plaza Will Be "Mother Teresa Tower"

peaking before the City Council gave a green light to the 15 Penn Plaza skyscraper plan, City Councilman Peter Vallone Jr. told the NY Post, "I'm willing to vote based solely on the merits, but I just happen to be very happy that the merits are not on the side of the Empire State Building." Why is Vallone so anti-ESB? Well, he's still annoyed the Empire State Building wouldn't light up in honor of Mother Teresa tonight!

The Empire State Building's owner had complained that the 1200-foot proposed tower, which would be situated a few blocks away at Seventh Avenue between West 32nd and 33rd Streets, would ruin the city's skyline. Many city politicians have argued the project will help the city and Mayor Bloomberg pointed out the city doesn't apologize to other buildings for ruining their views with new development. Anyway, Vallone said, "I think karma's an interesting thing. We're not going to be able to look up and see the blue and white lights honoring Mother Teresa on her birthday, but years down the line we'll be able to see a beautiful new skyscraper which in my mind will always be Mother Teresa Tower."

Tonight there will be a rally outside the ESB about Mother Teresa. As for 15 Penn Plaza, the Post says the project would also involve "a $150 million transportation makeover that entails four new subway stations and a reconstruction of the underground Gimbels passage, which connects Penn Station and Herald Square."
By Jen Chung in News on August 26, 2010 3:24 PM

http://gothamist.com/2010/08/26/to_vallone_15_penn_plaza_will_be_mo.php#comments
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  #586  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2010, 7:57 PM
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Funny how so sudden news about this project has toned down; now it really becomes a waiting game while Vornado hunts for an anchor. I’m betting it’s not going to be what many in this thread seem to be expecting as that anchor.
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  #587  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2010, 7:21 AM
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Funny how so sudden news about this project has toned down;
It's exactly what I expected. It was only in the news as much because of the battle with the Empire State's owners. That battle even overshadowed and drowned out the Hotel Penn preservationists. Now approvals are in place, and Vornado can close the hotel and start work on the tower whenever a tenant is signed, which is all the more easier now that they can actually build the tower.
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  #588  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2010, 3:11 AM
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The ‘highest and best use’ of real estate


13 September 2010 7:57 AM
By Daniel H. Lesser
HotelNewsNow.com columnist
[email protected]

The recent vote by the New York City Council approving construction of 15 Penn Plaza, a 1.3-million-square-foot office building on the site of the Hotel Pennsylvania in Manhattan, is most likely the final chapter of this storied hotel’s economic life. The approved development plan, similar to the seven new skyscrapers that are proposed in New York City during the next decade, is reflective of the forever evolving highest and best use of real estate.

The notion of the Hotel Pennsylvania's demolition was first introduced in the late 1990s when Vornado Realty Trust acquired the property. Vornado then announced in 2007 the hotel would be demolished to make way for a new office building with Merrill Lynch & Company as its anchor tenant. While the efforts of preservation activists to save the 90-year-old hotel initially provided a challenge to the proposed project, it was the recent financial crisis and the concerns regarding Merrill Lynch’s solvency (which resulted in that firm’s September 2008 sale to Bank of America at the height of the financial crisis), which ultimately led to collapse of the proposal to erect the then planned 2.5-million square-foot tower. While in 2007 the highest and best use of the Hotel Pennsylvania site appeared to be razing the structure and constructing a brand new office tower, just one year later the global financial crisis rendered the economic feasibility of that proposed development untenable, and halted the project.

During 2008, the interim highest and best use of the property evolved to the continued use of the site as a functionally and physically obsolete hotel until such time when a proposed redevelopment of the site again became financially viable. It now appears the economic feasibility of tearing down the Hotel Pennsylvania and developing a major office building on the site will once again turn positive in the near future.

Highest and best use often is identified as the key concept supporting real estate use and value decisions. The highest and best use of a specific parcel of land is not determined through subjective analysis but rather, it is a use shaped by the competitive forces within the market where a property is located.

The exact definition of “highest and best use” varies, but it generally is the most probable use of land or improved property that is legally possible, physically possible, financially feasible (and appropriately supportable) from the market and which results in maximum profitability.

An analysis of highest and best use involves two considerations:

1. The most likely and profitable use of the site "as if vacant" under the requirements set forth above.

2. If a property is "already improved," “highest and best use” is the use that should be made of the property to maximize value for non-income producing properties or, maximize net operating income on a long range basis for investment properties. In cases where capital expenditure is necessary to renovate or improve an income producing property, these costs must provide a sufficient rate of return (to the owner) for the total amount invested in the site and building improvements.

The highest and best use as vacant land may be the same or different as the highest and best use as improved.

If a property is located in an area zoned for commercial use, the maximum productivity of the land as though vacant will likely be based on commercial use. If, however, the competitive level of demand is greater for say, residential or multi-family use, then the highest and best use of the property as improved would be for residential use. If market preference conflicts with zoning, and consequently violates the legal permissibility test, a developer will consider if there is sufficient profit incentive to justify the added legal costs, extended time frame, and potential neighborhood opposition before obtaining a zoning change and developing the site.

As long as the value of a property "as improved" is greater than the value of the site as "if vacant," the highest and best use is typically the "improved" property. Once the value of the vacant land exceeds the value of the improved property (including demolition costs), highest and best use usually dictates that improvements be demolished.

The recent Great Recession has resulted in a dramatic resetting of commercial real estate values as well as new development and redevelopment construction costs. This phenomenon, along with a bottoming out of the market, has investors now looking to deploy the tremendous amounts of stockpiled equity capital that has recently been raised, to effectuate the highest and best use of a variety of real estate assets throughout the nation.

As debt becomes more readily available, all types of real estate transaction activity will continue to increase. Such deals will include the development of myriad new real estate projects, as well as the re-development of older assets that are ripe for investment of capital expenditures to extend the economic life of existing improvements. Similar to perceived value of an asset, the highest and best use of property is dynamic and changes and evolves over time, sometimes overnight. Clearly, the highest and best use of a proposed hotel site situated in lower Manhattan was dramatically different on 10 September 2001 when compared to 24 hours later.
http://www.hotelnewsnow.com/Articles.asp...best%20use%E2%80%99%20of%20real%20estate
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  #589  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2010, 1:20 PM
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During 2008, the interim highest and best use of the property evolved to the continued use of the site as a functionally and physically obsolete hotel until such time when a proposed redevelopment of the site again became financially viable. It now appears the economic feasibility of tearing down the Hotel Pennsylvania and developing a major office building on the site will once again turn positive in the near future.
That's exactly right.
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  #590  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2010, 2:21 PM
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http://www.observer.com/2010/real-estate/eight-million-new-yorks

Eight Million New Yorks



The proposed 15 Penn Plaza would streak into the skyline in place of the hotel.

By Emily Geminder
September 14, 2010

Quote:
In New York, the skyline sometimes recedes, but it never disappears entirely. Height, like money and power, is among the city's eternally recurring preoccupations, a kind of suspended totem of commerce, the skyline's residual tic. The skyline, after all, is not viscerally experienced so much as occasionally glimpsed and secreted away, stowed as eight million portable New Yorks. We ferry them across space and time, piece them together according to lopsided memories, instinctively shield them from change. Which is why we take the skyline so personally: The remembered city follows rules more impenetrable than any municipal zoning code, more persistent than a thousand landmark preservation commissions.

In the remembered city, familiarity becomes its own mythology.

With the recent thousand-foot-plus skirmishes along New York's contested contour—developer Vornado Realty Trust and cheerleaders of development on one side, defenders of the Empire State Building's solo reign on the other—the Hotel Pennsylvania, which Vornado's 1,216-foot 15 Penn Plaza will likely displace, has mostly been lost in the fray. Virtually all parties have more or less unanimously conceded the 90-year-old structure as a pre-mortem footnote to the inevitable saga of development.

But the hotel, once the biggest in the world (and whose switchboard, when dialed, still belts out the oldest digits in New York—Glen Miller's rowdy "Pennsylvania 6-5000"), has long occupied a curious place in the city's margins.

THE EARLY PART of the last century was a heady time for city dwellers. New York was lurching upward, metastasizing in plain view, quickening into a real estate free-for-all of glass and steel, sending up hundreds of tall buildings only to tear them down and replace them with taller ones.

As the Empire State Building was preparing to cast aside a stocky old hotel of its own (the Waldorf-Astoria would move uptown), other contenders for the claim of world's tallest building were busily at work, among them Edward L. and John A. Larkin, a pair of architect-developer brothers, who in 1926 proposed a 110-story paean to the new order of gigantism. The tapering Larkin Tower, which would plunk 950,000 square feet of rentable real estate on Eighth Avenue and 42nd Street, at once established the brothers in the pantheon of modern-day Babelites and hastened the competition's skyward race.

Biggest, tallest, best. The Larkin brothers, who had already affixed their names to a bevy of major real estate ventures, had a natural developers' predilection for superlative marketing. Two years before announcing plans for the Larkin Tower, they filed suit against the Pennsylvania Railroad, alleging the railroad stole their idea for the world's largest hotel, the Hotel Pennsylvania.


According to the Larkins' account, in 1916 the Pennsylvania Railroad returned the brothers' plans for a 30-story hotel across from Pennsylvania Station, contending that the network of tunnels running beneath the site would render the engineering all but impossible. Plans for the Hotel Pennsylvania were filed soon after.

It was the same year that New York's original zoning provisions were signed into law, intended to temper the spasm of steel construction booming its way across the city grid. The Hotel Pennsylvania itself was expected to herald an influx of towers along Seventh Avenue, transforming the area into a commuter-office hub of prime real estate—a precursor, perhaps, to Vornado head Steve Roth's dreams of a seamless glass-encased urban experience: part mall, part office complex, part civic center.

The hotel's grandiloquently overstated interiors—the Turkish baths, the Café Rouge where Benny Goodman and Tommy Dorsey swung—have long been gutted, and its status as the world's biggest hotel has long been surpassed. Its sole continuous heritage is perhaps its amenability to large conferences of the many obscure (linguists studying Pig Latin, assemblies of spiritualists, Mexican rebel forces) and not so obscure (Westminster Kennel Club dog show participants, Republican National Conventioneers) parties eternally descending on Manhattan.

The hotel was part of the Hilton chain for a period starting in the 1950s, coinciding with Conrad Hilton's gospel of the hotel as Communist deterrent. Other owners have included Ong Beng Seng, the Singaporean billionaire and major stakeholder in Planet Hollywood International, as well as the eccentric tycoon and failed politician "Honest" Abe Hirschfeld. But for most New Yorkers, the hotel was something else entirely: just a familiar blur of columns and trumpeting flags christening the churning masses that rise and fall from Penn Station. No more, no less.

The Great Depression brought a quick cessation to the Larkin brothers' bid for the skyline. Their tower was among the many abandoned projects left like craters in an alternate boom-time city. But who knows what architectural shudders it impelled, what towers it incited? A city is a microcosm of innumerable actors, tugging the skyline in unknowable ways. The compulsion to leave an indelible mark on New York, an act one would be hard pressed to match in hubris or ego, is also eternally usurped by the coming skyline, mediated by the city's competing multitudes.

The blunt steely force of the tower soon likely to supplant the Hotel Pennsylvania has, at least for the moment, reanimated the collective charge, however often secreted, that the skyline sparks in its denizens.
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  #591  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2010, 1:01 AM
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http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20100924/REAL_ESTATE/100929889

New hotel slated for Penn Station area
South Carolina-based operator picked up West 33rd Street site for bargain $22M last month; plans to build its first Manhattan hotel after years of trying for site


By Theresa Agovino
September 24, 2010

Quote:
A South Carolina-based hotel company is planning to build its first-ever Manhattan hotel on a parcel it purchased on West 33rd Street for $21.9 million.

OTO Development purchased the site across from the Farley Post Office last month, but executives don't want to discuss specific plans about what kind of a hotel they want for the site or when construction might start. The company currently owns 33 hotels operating under different brand names such as Hyatt Place and Residence Inn. In the past, OTO has owned a hotel in Queens and several on Long Island.

“Before we hadn't been able to close a deal that made financial sense (in Manhattan),” said Corry Oakes, chief executive officer of the firm, which is located in Spartanburg, S.C.

John Fox, a senior vice president at PKF Consulting, agrees it is a great site for a hotel. “There are not that many hotels within a block or two of Penn station,” said Mr. Fox, adding that Vornado Realty Trust plans to close the largest one in the area, the Hotel Pennsylvania. “There is a lot happening in that neighborhood.”

Dan Fasulo, managing director of Real Capital Analytics, said the transaction signals a willingness of some investors to buy raw land, something no one was willing to do during the recession.
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  #592  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2010, 1:05 AM
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http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20100924/REAL_ESTATE/100929889

New hotel slated for Penn Station area
South Carolina-based operator picked up West 33rd Street site for bargain $22M last month; plans to build its first Manhattan hotel after years of trying for site


By Theresa Agovino
September 24, 2010
height,completion dates,projections? anyone know anything?

on another Note i think 15 Penn Plaza has started a trend
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  #593  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2010, 2:23 AM
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height,completion dates,projections? anyone know anything?

on another Note i think 15 Penn Plaza has started a trend
Most likely, they'll wait until something else kicks off before starting. Maybe they hope to pick up the Hotel Penn business, or maybe they hope to cater to a different market when the area converts to more of a busines district. Too early to say.
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  #594  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2010, 1:36 PM
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http://www.boston.com/business/articles/...ive_in_nyc_doesnt_play_in_hub/?page=full

Two cities, two tales
Developer’s style, effective in NYC, doesn’t play in Hub



Construction has been stalled at the former Filene’s Basement site in Downtown Crossing.
City officials have threatened to revoke the developer’s permit if they don’t resume work by Sunday.


By Jenn Abelson and Casey Ross
September 25, 2010

Quote:
Vornado Realty Trust’s chief executive Steven Roth earned the nickname “Hamlet of Lexington Avenue’’ in 1990s Manhattan for his seeming indecisiveness — to build or not to build — on the site of a vacant department store for almost a decade. Then in 1998, he demolished the former Alexander’s, a midtown landmark, only to leave a block-long crater there while he waited out better offers from prospective tenants.

The plot is similar to one playing out at the Filene’s block in Boston’s Downtown Crossing, where Vornado began work on a $750 million office-condo complex by excavating a huge hole in the ground, only to leave the site vacant for years as the recession torpedoed its business plans.

In Manhattan, Roth filled the Alexander’s hole in 2004 with a sleek 55-story skyscraper anchored by Bloomberg LP, the media powerhouse owned by New York’s billionaire mayor, Michael Bloomberg. But in Boston, Roth won’t get a chance to play out the drama. Mayor Thomas M. Menino, seeing a snub by Big Apple developers, is forcing an early end to Roth’s run in Downtown Crossing by revoking the developer’s permits.

Menino viewed the inactive Filene’s project as undermining one of his priorities, the revival of Downtown Crossing, and accused the New York developer of being indifferent to Boston’s concerns. Just last month Menino criticized Vornado for focusing its energies on a new $2 billion tower near the Empire State Building.

Vornado is now abandoning plans for the 39-story Boston complex, this week saying it would sell to another developer who could move the project ahead. Some real estate officials say Vornado’s inglorious concession amounts to an admission that it cannot mend its relationship with the city and its mayor.

“Beantown is very conservative. It’s a different town. It’s a town of relationships,’’ said Faith Hope Consolo, chairwoman for retail real estate at Prudential Douglas Elliman in Manhattan. “And I don’t think [Vornado] took the time to do that.’’

Vornado, through a spokeswoman, declined to comment, as did Menino.

Vornado has always been centered around New York, with Boston one of its smaller, more distant markets. The company’s portfolio of 100 million-plus square feet is primarily located in the New York and Washington, D.C., metro areas. Its proposal for 15 Penn Plaza calls for another striking tower — only 34 feet shorter than the nearby Empire State Building.

Roth started in the 1980s acquiring an appliance store chain that he used to develop real estate holdings. The Bloomberg tower is among Manhattan’s most transformative projects in recent years and earned Roth and Vornado a reputation as among New York’s toughest, smartest, and most sophisticated developers, with a network of friends from Wall Street to City Hall.

Vornado “has long invested in the city and contributed to its growth,’’ said Andrew Brent, a spokesman for Bloomberg. “Recently, it has been a catalyst in the ongoing resurgence of the area surrounding Penn Station.’’

Roth’s company began eyeing Boston in the mid-2000s, when the city’s hot real estate market beckoned out-of-town investors looking for signature properties. It bought the Filene’s site in July 2006 for $100 million, receiving approval for a complex of offices, stores, hundreds of condominiums, and a hotel.

It was to be the epicenter of a revitalized Downtown Crossing that Menino envisioned would be crowded with stylish boutiques and restaurants, simple conveniences such as a supermarket, and new condominiums and apartments to give its narrow streets more city life.

But in 2008, Vornado and his local partner, John B. Hynes III, could not find financing to proceed and halted construction at Filene’s, leaving an empty crater that became a physical embodiment of the recession.

In March, with city officials increasingly frustrated, Roth set off a firestorm with remarks before a Columbia University audience, in which he suggested he deliberately allowed the Alexander’s site in Manhattan to become blighted so he could squeeze money from the government.

“Why did I do nothing?’’ Roth said, according to the New York Observer, which published an account of his presentation. “The more the building was a blight; the more governments would want this to be redeveloped; the more help they would give us when the time came.’’

The comment infuriated Menino. He fired off a letter to Roth accusing him of repeating the same strategy in Boston and threatening to revoke the project’s permits unless Vornado resumed construction.

Then along came the Penn Station project. Again seeing a slight, Menino had an aide call Bloomberg’s office asking New York to withhold support for Vornado’s new tower because the developers had unfinished business in Boston. But the New York City Council gave the necessary approvals that will allow Vornado to again transform the Big Apple’s skyline.

Greg Vasil, chief executive of the Greater Boston Real Estate Board, said he was surprised by Roth’s comments and troubled about what it meant for Downtown Crossing.

“Maybe [Boston] wasn’t front and center to them as compared to other things in their portfolio,’’ Vasil said. “It got out of hand. I didn’t know how Vornado let it get to this level.’’

But others say Menino was overreacting during a difficult economic environment.

“You have to give your mayor a Xanax. He’s got a developer that knows how to do things right,’’ said Consolo, the Prudential Douglas Elliman executive. “Everyone is in a holding pattern. It’s just a sign of the times.’’

But while New York is more supportive of Vornado — the city provided its property with nearly $20 million in tax abatements — Boston has run out of patience.

“We’ve given them more than three years to perform, and they haven’t been able to demonstrate the capacity to do that,’’ said Boston Redevelopment Authority director John Palmieri. “They’ve created terrible condition for themselves, and for us, and we have obligation to take a stand now and make sure they respond to us.’’

Michael Gould, chief executive of Bloomingdale’s, which has its flagship department store next to the former Alexander’s property in Manhattan, said he used to tease Roth about the empty site.

“It was frustrating for me when I’m doing hundreds of millions of dollars in sales and next door to me is an empty lot,’’ said Gould, who grew up in the Boston area. “But at the end of the day, everyone has to figure out how they can come out economically. Steve took his time doing it. Sometimes we take our time doing things and we’re all better for it. I just hope that Boston ends up with the same quality project.’’
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  #595  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2010, 1:48 PM
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The people in Boston shouldn't feel so bad. At least Vornado spent the money to save the old building's facade. Everyone that I know wished that they'd do the same with the Hotel Penn's 7th avenue columns.
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  #596  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2010, 6:17 AM
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Air China Lands at Empire State Building
By Matt Chaban


Air China, the official airline of the Communist regime, is moving into some swanky new space on the 69th floor of the Empire State Building. Apparently the looming threat of 15 Penn Plaza was just that, as Fred Posniak, a W&H Properties executive suggested in a release announcing the deal today.

"International brand-name companies appreciate the recognition and cachet of the Empire State Building," Mr. Posniak said. "The transaction with Air China is another example of a perfect match between a prestigious company and the World's Most Famous Office Building."

The airline moved into a "pre-built suite," which Mr. Posniak argued was a sign that "pre-builts are no no longer the domain of small companies." Perhaps business being what it is these days, who can afford anything more?
http://www.observer.com/2010/real-estate/air-china-lands-empire-state-building
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  #597  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2010, 11:26 AM
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The people in Boston shouldn't feel so bad. At least Vornado spent the money to save the old building's facade. Everyone that I know wished that they'd do the same with the Hotel Penn's 7th avenue columns.
the article was correct in saying Boston is a city of "relationships", lol, truer words were never spoken, unfortunately. the one thing that they most likely didn't realize is that you don't tick off Mayor Menino and if you do, watch out. He does want a 1000 ft skyscraper downtown however and that hasn't happened for a number of reasons. If y'all think that Lower Manhattan's skyline is flat( but not for long ), come see downtown Boston's. anyway, as a Bostonian, i'd rather this developer build THIS project than the Boston one anyway, this will be spectacular AND we don't need ANOTHER 39 story building, we have enough of those
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  #598  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2010, 4:52 PM
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Let's pray that this one will get built...
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Old Posted Oct 1, 2010, 5:41 PM
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Originally Posted by sterlippo1 View Post
...the article was correct in saying Boston is a city of "relationships", lol, truer words were never spoken, unfortunately. the one thing that they most likely didn't realize is that you don't tick off Mayor Menino and if you do, watch out. He does want a 1000 ft skyscraper downtown however and that hasn't happened for a number of reasons. If y'all think that Lower Manhattan's skyline is flat( but not for long ), come see downtown Boston's. anyway, as a Bostonian, i'd rather this developer build THIS project than the Boston one anyway, this will be spectacular AND we don't need ANOTHER 39 story building, we have enough of those
I love Boston. It's my third favorite city in the US after NY and DC. It is incredibly beautiful, but for the most part, its modern architecture absolutely sucks. It's a shame.
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Old Posted Oct 1, 2010, 6:07 PM
sterlippo1 sterlippo1 is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Sonoma County
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Originally Posted by RobertWalpole View Post
I love Boston. It's my third favorite city in the US after NY and DC. It is incredibly beautiful, but for the most part, its modern architecture absolutely sucks. It's a shame.
it is an incredibly beautiful city and the mayor has by in large done a great job in his tenure AND some of the newer buildings are ok, but enough already! they are all the same! i think this building, though, for midtown, even if a few feet lower in height than the ESB will look larger and maybe deceivingly taller than it's iconic neighbor because it doesn't taper, it's all building! i love it
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