Halifax Stadium Discussion

[halifaxboyns]

1. Shannon Park.
Agree.
2. Quarry along 102
I'm not 100% sure where this is; so could someone get a map?
3. Mainland Commons
I don't agree - the commons to me is park; with baseball diamonds. That's just me.
4. Where new 113 will connect to 102
Isn't this area dedicated for redevelopment as part of Bedford South and the residential subdivision that contains the RIM site? Or worse yet; isn't it going to be dedicated as part of the Blue Mountain Park? Btw, I don't think a park is bad, just not good for a stadium!
5. Exhibition Park
Acceptable, but not my favorite given the lack of ability to encourage development around it.
6. Dartmouth Crossing at 118 hwy
An interesting concept - because with DC getting some hotels; there may be a logical connection from the perspective of being close to lodgings.
7. Windsor Pk/ Forum site
I hate to say it; but I'm moving away from this site more and more for a stadium but as a great site for redevelopment as an employment centre instead.

One thing I thought of, which I don't think anyone has thought about is the pull of the downtown bar/restaurant owners. The Metro Centre being where it is wasn't random (from my understanding). Downtown restaurants and bars pushed for it there; because they wanted a way to attract more business. While I doubt that the stadium would end up on the commons (I figure save the whatever would jump on that), any location outside of the downtown core will meet with opposition from downtown restaurant owners and probably cheers for business wherever it is (although if it ends up at EP; you'd just hear the wind because there is no business there hehe - sorry I thought that was funny! ).

EP also presents a challenge from the perspective of providing these services; you would have to build it into the stadium itself.

Brett> you also make a good point about Montreal versus Edmonton. To me; I actually like the design of Edmonton's stadium. It's simple and functional and to me could be made more iconic in simple ways like lighting design or colours. I guess to me; you can still have simple design with little accents that make the building interesting (without having to spend a lot of $).

[Empire]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

That intersection is easily upgraded.



I was unaware that we owned Shearwater or Shannon Park.

Nevertheless it is interesting that the roads there can handle traffic loads you mentioned, yet the quite identical roads plus 2 of the biggest multilane highways we have in NS seemingly cannot for the EP site. How bizarre.

How is access to EP similar to Shannon Park?

[brettinhalifax]

account deleted

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

3. Mainland Commons
I don't agree - the commons to me is park; with baseball diamonds. That's just me.

Halifaxboyns, are you thinking about the same Commons - we are thinking of this one - http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=44.65038351543911~-63.660312070742805&lvl=15&sty=h . The Canada Winter Games building is going up in there. If a stadium can't be built on the peninsula or near the West Mall then I would like this area. One problem is that the existing parking is across a busy highway which would cut it off from this site. If in Dartmouth then I am not sure - maybe Woodside because of the views or Shannon Park. But to be honest, even though I lived in Dartmouth for a few years, I am completely biased towards Halifax. It has the Citadel, historic sites downtown, Public Gardens, etc., etc., etc.

[someone123]

If there were some coordination the government could pick up relatively cheap Woodside land then build a third crossing with good road connections on the peninsula (some kind of railcut highway plus Robie Street connector and possibly a bridge over the arm to link up to NW Arm Drive).

Not sure something like that can reasonably be expected to happen though. I have no idea what state the bridge plan is in. I suspect that it is quietly moving forward but that officials don't want to release information because of how much people freak out over this piece of obviously necessary infrastructure that has been planned for decades...

[Jstaleness]

Maybe it's minor but I think that because Woodside and Shannon Park have existing rail they should be strongly considered. Someday when Halifax grows up and becomes a big kid we will need rail to move people. If it's already there than what a huge savings.

[fenwick16]

ATL Stadium - I tried placing a sunken bowl stadium at the two quarry sites near the 102 and Kearney Lake. These are too deep and much too large. One site looks like it must be at least 100 feet deep. I was the one who previously recommended a quarry - so I am embarrassed that I made such a suggestion (blame me). I had only seen these on Google maps from a distant perspective. Once I zoomed in and checked the terrain then I realized that is was a poor suggestion on my part - these really do have a chance of becoming large swimming pools (or large lakes). So such a stadium might end up submerged in water. Let's forget this and think further south at the Bayers Lake or Halifax Commons area . You can criticize me for this idea.

For a sunken bowl stadium, just a slight depression would be best. If a large site were found that was sunken by 20 feet then it might be cheap land since it might not be desirable for many development projects. Then the dirt could be moved around to form the lower bowl of the stadium and ramps to the concourse. Based on what I read, such a method of building a stadium is a cost effective approach.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Halifaxboyns, are you thinking about the same Commons - we are thinking of this one - http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=44.65038351543911~-63.660312070742805&lvl=15&sty=h . The Canada Winter Games building is going up in there. If a stadium can't be built on the peninsula or near the West Mall then I would like this area. One problem is that the existing parking is across a busy highway which would cut it off from this site. If in Dartmouth then I am not sure - maybe Woodside because of the views or Shannon Park. But to be honest, even though I lived in Dartmouth for a few years, I am completely biased towards Halifax. It has the Citadel, historic sites downtown, Public Gardens, etc., etc., etc.

You are right - whoops! I logged in quickly and didn't really look and thought it was downtown Commons.

That actually might work okay if the new Lacewood Terminal was positioned off Willet Street. The 102 highway could be the main route for special transit routes from Bedford/Sackville and for routes from Dartmouth (once they get to the 102).

[sdm]

Originally Posted by Jstaleness

Maybe it's minor but I think that because Woodside and Shannon Park have existing rail they should be strongly considered. Someday when Halifax grows up and becomes a big kid we will need rail to move people. If it's already there than what a huge savings.

LOL

Classic, i wish we would grow up and spend the money on light rail. I mean the reason the office tenants are moving to the burbs is because of parking and access, its been going on for years. Sooner the city realizes this the better.

And from all the discussions i think shannon park is a great site and or the former maritime steel location (which i believe was for sale at one point).

[reddog794]

As much as I love Johnny Mac's, I could handle it gone for a Moir's Memorial Stadium.

[Phalanx]

I like Shannon Park as a location if the rest of the park is developed along with it. Barring that, I'll go waaaay back to the early days of the thread and say that I still like Dartmouth Crossing as a location. As mentioned by HBNS, there are already hotels nearby, with more going up, and lots of amenities and things for people to do after a game or concert. It has good road access, and transit access could easily be improved.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by reddog794

As much as I love Johnny Mac's, I could handle it gone for a Moir's Memorial Stadium.

I am confused again

[reddog794]

Johnny Mac's is an establishment next the A&W, on pleasant st, with a lot of open parking, a mall across the street, as well as being next door to the nscc campus, and right up the hill from the ferry terminal.

The area of which mentioned was home to a Moir's chocolate factory, that was well known for its, pot of gold boxes of chocolate. Almost an icon for any child of dartmouth, it was torn down a few years ago and is now a mall. It would be fitting name for a stadium in an ideal location

[Welkin]

Just a note - as with many stadiums, the playing field seems to be sunken (I estimate that it is sunken by about 15 feet.) (This is based on having to raise it up in order for the playing field to display properly). Maybe Welkin can confirm this since he has been to this stadium.

Fenwick, from what I can remember, it was not a sunken pitch. It might have been 10ft or less below ground level, but nothing more. It was definitely not a whole tier lower. To be honest, I had more than my fair share of Brains, so my memory of that night is a little fuzzy. It was a nice stadium, I can tell you that. It would be great for Halifax.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by reddog794

Johnny Mac's is an establishment next the A&W, on pleasant st, with a lot of open parking, a mall across the street, as well as being next door to the nscc campus, and right up the hill from the ferry terminal.

The area of which mentioned was home to a Moir's chocolate factory, that was well known for its, pot of gold boxes of chocolate. Almost an icon for any child of dartmouth, it was torn down a few years ago and is now a mall. It would be fitting name for a stadium in an ideal location

I like this site the best of any in Dartmouth - http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=44.650360894682144~-63.54375900012383&lvl=16&sty=h . It would have great views of Halifax, is close to an existing ferry terminal and the land might be relatively inexpensive. I feel that the stadium should be as close as possible to the ferry terminal with parking in the background. I wouldn't be disappointed to see this site selected. I like urban areas and it has a visual connection to the Halifax skyline. If Halifax got a CFL team then the skyline would be prominently displayed on every broadcast (as BrettinHalifax pointed out previously). This would have much better views than Shannon Park. (I haven't stop liking the DND area in Halifax though)

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Welkin

Just a note - as with many stadiums, the playing field seems to be sunken (I estimate that it is sunken by about 15 feet.) (This is based on having to raise it up in order for the playing field to display properly). Maybe Welkin can confirm this since he has been to this stadium.

Fenwick, from what I can remember, it was not a sunken pitch. It might have been 10ft or less below ground level, but nothing more. It was definitely not a whole tier lower. To be honest, I had more than my fair share of Brains, so my memory of that night is a little fuzzy. It was a nice stadium, I can tell you that. It would be great for Halifax.

Thanks for the information. You have a good memory - based on this construction image, it does appear to be sunken by only 10 feet or so - to about the level of the vomitoriums. I don't think that a stadium needs to be sunken very far to get the benefit of a reduction in exterior wall height and lower exit ramps - I am thinking in terms of 20 - 25 feet sunken lower bowl and then a raised upper tier (I consider such a design to be two tiers which I like because it leaves lots of concourse space and area for wheelchair seating and luxury suites). The Cardiff City Stadium seems to have two tiers on one side and a single tier on the other. I think this could be an ideal design if the roof and exterior walls were built so that a second tier of seats could be added in the future to give it the flexibility of increased capacity if required.

I really like this stadium design - the spectators are well sheltered, it looks solid - steel and concrete, it would contain noise from concerts and direct it upwards instead of out towards surrounding neighbourhoods. If this could be built with the flexibility of future expansion then it would certainly get me excited. The roof might need more support as did the temporary BC Lion's stadium in Vancouver to support higher Canadian snow loads but an experienced structural engineer would be able to easily work that out.

Another, somewhat similar low cost stadium is the Swansea Stadium - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Stadium,_Swansea

(source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff_City_Stadium )


(source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff_City_Stadium )

[-Harlington-]

i like the wooded area in bayers lake beside the 102, 103 interchange, if you look at it, it makes a lot of sense. especially with the new underpass and all that
as for dartmouth theres some vacant space under the macdonald bridge that im sure you could fit a stadium into. that would be great if that worked.

[Welkin]

Fenwick, great picture of the construction site. Now we just have to imagine it being built somewhere in Halifax and we are on our way.

One point to consider after reading all these posts, is that everyone is taking this from the point of view of a developer instead of a politician. Developers use logic to find the best location and factors in such criteria as land costs, private access vs public access, location to key target audience, potential for future growth, synergy with other potential developments and etc. Politicians (who are going to be the ones who will plan this thing since no private owner seems to be stepping up to the plate) have a different set of priorities. Politicians tend to focus on visibility (can people see their tax dollars at work), renovation and improvement (can I say I improved a declining part of my city), constituents (I don't want to piss off the NIMBYS and the business/money crowd) electability ( where can I put this so that I can gather additional votes and stay in office), and image (does the location improve the overall image of my city and is it something I can easily show off when I give tours to prospective new companies/employers I bring to town). When we set the stadium location based upon this criteria, some of our sites are less attractive. For example, Exhibition Park might be a decent location to a developer, but is a lousy location to a politician. As a betting man, I would put my money on Shannon Park being the chosen site since it has the greatest appeal from a political point of view. Thoughts?

[ATL Stadium]

I had an interesting conversation with one the downtown Hotel Managers.....
I thought he would be having huge objections to a suburban sited Stadium....much to my surprise it was quiet the contrary...
He basically said.....he was very interested in a Convention Ctr downtown but not a Stadium...He said in his opinion a stadium was NOT a room seller....sure they tail gate and buy food at the stadium.....but his point was they are generally paying their own way....Conventions are different, lots of time paid by an organization and needs rooms for more than a night or two...they rent cars, need parking, buy higher end meals and banquets....all good stuff for the hotel biz.....Stadium goers not so much.....He said its more for the area resident not so much of a traveler draw....

INTERESTING PERSPECTIVE.

[ATL Stadium]

Originally Posted by -Harlington-

i like the wooded area in bayers lake beside the 102, 103 interchange, if you look at it, it makes a lot of sense. especially with the new underpass and all that
as for dartmouth theres some vacant space under the macdonald bridge that im sure you could fit a stadium into. that would be great if that worked.

Harlington .....not sure where you might be meaning?

The area along the one side of the 103 at 102 is the Long Lake section that is the backup watershed.....is that the spot you were thinking....?