Halifax Stadium Discussion

[Welkin]

Not a bad spot, but to make it really work you need to do a little more urban renewal. In addition to the Willow Park property, the city should also buy and tear down the Atlantic Super Store, relocate the electrical substation and maybe buy up some of the land that is now a car lot. That would give you plenty of land for a proper stadium, minimal on-site parking and public transportation areas. Keep in mind that almost all of the NFL stadiums that were built in downtown areas involved massive urban renewal projects (either for the current stadium or for the previous stadium) that involved clearing several blocks of downtown areas. I don't see historic Halifax clearing several blocks for a downtown stadium, but maybe they will clear most of this block for a potential stadium.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Welkin

Not a bad spot, but to make it really work you need to do a little more urban renewal. In addition to the Willow Park property, the city should also buy and tear down the Atlantic Super Store, relocate the electrical substation and maybe buy up some of the land that is now a car lot. That would give you plenty of land for a proper stadium, minimal on-site parking and public transportation areas. Keep in mind that almost all of the NFL stadiums that were built in downtown areas involved massive urban renewal projects (either for the current stadium or for the previous stadium) that involved clearing several blocks of downtown areas. I don't see historic Halifax clearing several blocks for a downtown stadium, but maybe they will clear most of this block for a potential stadium.

Buying and tearing down the Atlantic Superstore might be so far fetched as compared to other alternatives. However, many of the buildings in the Windsor/Young area look like outdated industrial type buildings, so cheaper locations might be available if someone were willing to do a serious search. The parking doesn't have to be on the same lot as the stadium. A 30,000 seat stadium could be designed to fit on a 500 foot wide x 700 lot foot long lot and have room for expansion. A stadium such as the Percival Molson Stadium would fit in such an area. One such as the temporary BC Lions stadium should easily fit such an area.

Halifax needs an economical stadium (but permanent) - one way to build an economical stadium is to eliminate the large dedicated on-site parking. This isn't a new idea; it has been done in numerous places throughout North America (particularly in very large cities where land is much more expensive and more scarce than in Halifax). The stadium could use existing parking in the area such as at the Halifax Forum and other locations downtown with shuttle buses similar to the M&T Bank Stadium in Baltimore. (both Scotia Square and The West Mall could be used during evenings and weekends when events normally occur).

The Halifax Metro Centre doesn't have a dedicated parking lot and has hosted concerts of 13,000 (Elton John - twice in two nights). The Halifax Commons has hosted a few large concerts without having a dedicated parking lot with thousands of spaces. The Rogers Centre in Toronto handles 30,000 spectators on a regular basis without a dedicated parking lot. (In the early 90's it sold out for Blue Jays games on a regular basis - that is 50,000 spectators without a large dedicated parking lot). However, the stadium would require an area that is large enough to allow buses to efficiently unload spectators near the entrance.

[fenwick16]

I posted this before but I might not have pointed out that the NSLC addition to the Atlantic SuperStore has been removed. This would be about 620 feet in width between Windsor Steet and the Atlantic Superstore (based on Google Earth measurements) and there is plenty of space between the two 3D buildings. For comparison, the Rogers Centre (Skydome) in Toronto is about 720 feet square.

[halifaxboyns]

When considering this stadium; we may want to look at the pro's/con's and additional costs of a stadium in an existing urban context versus greenfield.

So from that perspective; I would think that Shannon Park would fall in the middle - it has existing infrastructure; but it would require a new road network, sewer/water upgrades and transit upgrades.

With Windsor Park/Willow Park - you'd have to factor into the mix the cost to aquire the land (which could be mitigated through land swaps - like the library or through a land swap at the end, build out the site and whatever is left over sell off), demolition and any environmental remediation (because of the vehicle repais on the site). Then the typical sewer/water upgrades, road network improvements and upgrade of the facility/parking etc. Windsor/Willow park may have a benefit of sharing the Forum parking because if the sites were linked with a ped bridge over Young Street - you could then construct a parkade at the forum (both on the Young and Almon sides) to handle events. My only fear would be that it would be used by commuters during the work week; which I believe empire suggested but I'm struggling with seeing a good thing about that.

With a greenfield site; there would be no remediation or demolition costs. There would be costs to clear and grade the site, build sewer/water and roads, the facility and parking - but it would be less than an existing brownfield (developed) site. Greenfield will always win out from a pure costing factor, because it won't have the issues that a brownfield site will have. That being said; just because it's cheaper doesn't mean it's better because it may be further away from many residents, located out in the middle of 'nothing'.

I'm like many; I would prefer either Shannon Park (because it could be the highlight of a really great redevelopment of the area) or for Willow/Windsor Park simply because it could bring some great renewal to that area. I don't like the idea of being greenfield; but cost must factor into it. I see this as being an iconic development and so it should be something that people can easily see - which is why for me SP makes sense, because it could be an iconic building seen from the harbour.

[fenwick16]

I would think that the biggest factor would be what location will result in the greatest use of of the facility. Will Shannon Park be a location that will draw the greatest number of people? If yes, then that would be the best site. I have concerns because I remember attending university in Halifax and at that time, Shannon Park would have been an isolated location for people without a car. But maybe that is no longer the case.

[-Harlington-]

Source: 2011 Uteck Bowl bound for Moncton
AUS expected to make announcement at news conference Wednesday
By MONTY MOSHER Sports Reporter | EXCLUSIVE
Tue, Sep 21 - 4:53 AM

Calgary Dinos celebrate their Uteck Bowl victory over the Saint Mary’s Huskies at Huskies Stadium in Halifax last November. It may be the final Uteck Bowl in Halifax for some time with reports of the game moving to Moncton next year.(Peter Parsons / Staff)






Halifax is about to lose a major athletic event, and a piece of its sporting culture, to Moncton.

A source close to the matter says Atlantic University Sport will hand Moncton the rights to host the 2011 Uteck Bowl Canadian Interuniversity Sport national football semifinal at the new $20-million stadium at the Universite de Moncton campus. It is not known if the deal extends beyond one game.

The AUS has called a news conference Wednesday morning in Moncton, which is gearing up for this weekend’s Touchdown Atlantic CFL game, to announce details "of an exciting sporting event coming to Moncton."

AUS executive director Phil Currie was unavailable Monday night.

Halifax hosted the Atlantic Bowl, the forerunner to the Uteck Bowl, almost uninterrupted for more than 30 years before the CIS put the semifinal games into a rotation among its four football conferences. Huskies Stadium has been the host venue for the Uteck Bowl, always the semifinal held the farthest east, in 2003, 2005, 2007 and 2009.

The AUS champion will play in the Mitchell Bowl, the other national semifinal, at the home of the Canada West conference champion this season.

Next year’s game in Moncton will feature the Atlantic conference winner against the Ontario champion.

Moncton offers an attractive option to the AUS over and above a better venue than the rundown Huskies Stadium.

The AUS wants to increase attention on university football in Moncton, and New Brunswick in general, toward possible expansion in the four-team football conference.

Universite de Moncton is actively considering a varsity team and intends to complete a review by the end of the year.

Moncton does have a team in the club-level Atlantic Football League, a five-team circuit in its second year.

Steve Sarty, athletic director at Saint Mary’s University, said he has not officially been notified that the game is moving from Huskies Stadium, but "I’ve had conversations with Phil about it and he has alluded to the fact that there is a high likelihood that it will."

He said Currie told him as early as last fall that the game would likely be moved. He said the two haven’t discussed it since.

Moncton’s stadium has 10,000 seats and can be expanded to seat 20,000.

( [email protected])





i think we all have something to say about the direction sports in halifax is going but this is hopefully a wake up call for peter kelly

[q12]

Originally Posted by -Harlington-

i think we all have something to say about the direction sports in halifax is going but this is hopefully a wake up call for peter kelly

Mayor Kelly has got nothing he can claim as his legacy other than a shit filled sewer treatment plant, trying to carry a bullet through Halifax airport security and a failed commonwealth games bid.

Not to mention the light rail system he promised.

The next mayoral candidate who champions a stadium among other things that will better Halifax, should win hands down.

[q12]

Have a look at some of the comments on this article. People are pissed off as they should be.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Front/1203063.html

Sample comment from article:

"Just heard Mayor Kelly interviewed and he is shocked that the Uteck Bowl could/would be moved.According to him it is a tradition to hold the game in Halifax.This is yet another example of our leadership expecting that the "good enough"excuse will work in the 21st century.Halifax is losing ground and we need visonary,brave leadership to reestablish Halifax as the capitol city of the Atlantic region."

I say everyone needs to start emailing the Mayor to let him know how we all feel, since apparently he is shocked about this.

[email protected]

[q12]

Double post.

[halifaxboyns]

My only caution about e-mailing the mayor is please; keep it civil. Don't be sending stuff in a rude or harsh tone - it doesn't advance the cause.

But this article really puts pressure on the politicians to start thinking about this issue again and gives groups who have a vested interest the opportunity to bring it forward.

Fenwick - as to your previous comment, yes getting the best use out of the stadium I guess would be a factor. To me; I thought it was just assumed and didn't need to be said.

One thing I noticed in an article about the site (in the NB section of CBC) is that there was no parking on the University of Moncton campus for the CFL game being played this weekend and so transit was shuttling people to and from. This gave me an idea about Shannon Park and going back to the comment someone made about the Forum site and how it could be a shuttle/commuter parking area. The same could be true of Shannon Park if proper transit connections were made.

The other comment I would make is that you can always provide transportation to the site but you also need people there to make any shops or services work well. So there has to be a component of residential in the mix, to make the services there worthwhile.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by q12

Have a look at some of the comments on this article. People are pissed off as they should be.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Front/1203063.html

Sample comment from article:


I say everyone needs to start emailing the Mayor to let him know how we all feel, since apparently he is shocked about this.

[email protected]

WOW yeah that is certainly a flood of uniformly upset people ticked at the lack of sports culture, and probably 80% of the comments are aimed at the mayor and council. Great to see some emotion rather than apathy on this! If that can actually be directed and maintained, maybe something good can come of this.

[Keith P.]

Could someone with the skill to do so take a Google satellite view of the corner of Inglis and Robie, across from SMU, and overlay a typical stadium plan onto it? That used to be a school; the building is still there but I don't think it is used as a school any more. The property extends back to a large hill. It may be owned by HRM or the school board.

Here's my thinking: Huskies Stadium is shoehorned into a piece of land that the university should use for something else and a new stadium should be relocated. This seems like a perfect site. You could use the hill for one side with seats/bleachers, and would only need full structure on the other -- but of course, only if it would fit.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Could someone with the skill to do so take a Google satellite view of the corner of Inglis and Robie, across from SMU, and overlay a typical stadium plan onto it? That used to be a school; the building is still there but I don't think it is used as a school any more. The property extends back to a large hill. It may be owned by HRM or the school board.

Here's my thinking: Huskies Stadium is shoehorned into a piece of land that the university should use for something else and a new stadium should be relocated. This seems like a perfect site. You could use the hill for one side with seats/bleachers, and would only need full structure on the other -- but of course, only if it would fit.

I can do that later tonight - I would like to see a stadium in that area. What type of stadium do you have in mind?

I agree that SMU could use their current stadium area for academic purposes and use this area at Inglis and Robie for football. They have a renovation of the Huskies Stadium described in their masterplan - it looks like about 4,000 - 5,000 seats covered - this money could be put towards a stadium in the area that you mentioned. But it makes too much sense to build a stadium close to SMU and Dalhousie, so what are the chances of that (accuse my pessimism)? What are the closest parking areas that are close to here? People could park and get a shuttle to the stadium. Plus, there would be a lot of university students that could just walk.

[Dmajackson]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Could someone with the skill to do so take a Google satellite view of the corner of Inglis and Robie, across from SMU, and overlay a typical stadium plan onto it? That used to be a school; the building is still there but I don't think it is used as a school any more. The property extends back to a large hill. It may be owned by HRM or the school board.

The school's still there and its still in use so it would be diffucult to put a stadium there. Thw schools been in use for about 50 years though so I don't know what the lifespan is.

Oh and just a heads up I'm neutral about the site but the hill and surrounding area is a sports facility which are hard to find on the Peninsula so be prepared to hit a massive wall of resistance.

[fenwick16]

What is the modern building at the center of this block? http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=rf54579q1b7n&scene=43568948&lvl=1&sty=b

A Percival Molson type stadium would fit here with room to spare. Even the Rogers Centre (Skydome) would fit, although there would only be about 10 - 20 feet between it and the modern 5 storey building. Some homes would have to be expropriated though.

[Empire]

I could be mistake, but in the last 20 years I don`t recall a single politican or media person supporting a stadium concept for Halifax. Sue Uteck is surprised by losing the Uteck Bowl? Peter Kelly is no doubt happy, because no doubt in some way he thinks it is saving taxpayers money.......................

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Empire

I could be mistake, but in the last 20 years I don`t recall a single politican or media person supporting a stadium concept for Halifax. Sue Uteck is surprised by losing the Uteck Bowl? Peter Kelly is no doubt happy, because no doubt in some way he thinks it is saving taxpayers money.......................

I wonder if the CFL game in Moncton next Sunday (September 26) will stir up interest in the Halifax area?

I don't want to get people fired up but read this - http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/?id=334491 . If Moncton gets a CFL team before Halifax then I think that there will be quite a few embarrassed politicians in the Halifax area.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

What is the modern building at the center of this block? http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=rf54579q1b7n&scene=43568948&lvl=1&sty=b

A Percival Molson type stadium would fit here with room to spare. Even the Rogers Centre (Skydome) would fit, although there would only be about 10 - 20 feet between it and the modern 5 storey building. Some homes would have to be expropriated though.

If you are talking on the SMU site; that's an ice rink. I remember skating there while I was going to school there.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

If you are talking on the SMU site; that's an ice rink. I remember skating there while I was going to school there.

I was thinking of this one http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=rf5byc9q19r2&scene=43568948&lvl=2&sty=b . Just out of curiosity, and no to anyone who might ask, I am not suggesting that it be torn down.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I wonder if the CFL game in Moncton next Sunday (September 26) will stir up interest in the Halifax area?

I don't want to get people fired up but read this - http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/?id=334491 . If Moncton gets a CFL team before Halifax then I think that there will be quite a few embarrassed politicians in the Halifax area.

I'm not sure what it takes to embarrass a Halifax politician? Even complete defeat such as today's announcement of the moving the Uteck Bowl doesn't seem to wake them up. We must not forget that Kelly killed the Commonwealth Games by himself behind closed doors. With a mindset like that the obstacles are enormous.


Moncton wins again........
http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/alex_walling/?id=334588