Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[DKaz]

Sorry I was somehow given wrong information, Trains #3 and #4 are only 10 cars each!

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

We know that some stations will have more commuters waiting than others, so one station may fill all 3 cars that are platformed, or it may take a half-dozen station stops to fill 3 cars that are platformed.

The biggest issue with this is what I call the "partitioning problem". It's the same problem you have when you split your computer storage up into multiple partitions - you run the risk of filling up one partition while another one has lots of space available.

In the case of the train, the risk is that you'll end up with some cars filled to capacity and potentially even have to leave passengers stranded on the platform while other cars have available space. This is especially true if the platforming of cars at each station is done in accordance with a predefined plan, since plans often end up out of sync with reality.

It can be minimized if there's active communication between the crew and the engineer so that the emptiest cars are always the ones that are platformed. But that doesn't work all that well when the emptiest cars aren't neatly arranged as 3 consecutive coaches.

The best solution, short of extending the platforms, is for open gangways between the cars so that passengers can distribute themselves evenly throughout the train. But passengers rarely distribute themselves all that evenly, as anyone who's tried to make their way to the back of a fully loaded bus can attest. That's what led to my original comment about the non-platformed cars not being as full as the others.

[Millennium2002]

I don't think that the Chicago policy is necessarily one that WCE would want to adopt... in fact it'd probably confuse and anger many riders accustomed to the current situation if such a system is implemented.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

The biggest issue with this is what I call the "partitioning problem". It's the same problem you have when you split your computer storage up into multiple partitions - you run the risk of filling up one partition while another one has lots of space available.

In the case of the train, the risk is that you'll end up with some cars filled to capacity and potentially even have to leave passengers stranded on the platform while other cars have available space. This is especially true if the platforming of cars at each station is done in accordance with a predefined plan, since plans often end up out of sync with reality.

It can be minimized if there's active communication between the crew and the engineer so that the emptiest cars are always the ones that are platformed. But that doesn't work all that well when the emptiest cars aren't neatly arranged as 3 consecutive coaches.

The best solution, short of extending the platforms, is for open gangways between the cars so that passengers can distribute themselves evenly throughout the train. But passengers rarely distribute themselves all that evenly, as anyone who's tried to make their way to the back of a fully loaded bus can attest. That's what led to my original comment about the non-platformed cars not being as full as the others.

I always assumed there was an open gangway between the trains. I've only ridden it once and that was back in the 90's Just took a trip from downtown to Poco. Didn't want to go any further or else I'd be stuck out there. So I never really paid attention to whether there was an open gangway.

As for people not walking to back of the buses. If they don't mind me putting my elbow into their back as I walk by. Fine by me cause I then can sit down.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

I don't think that the Chicago policy is necessarily one that WCE would want to adopt... in fact it'd probably confuse and anger many riders accustomed to the current situation if such a system is implemented.

Fortunately, when WCE was started, all of the station platforms were the same length, so all the cars would platform.

However, now that the trains are longer than the platforms, the trains can start in Mission with the last 8 cars platformed and use those cars until (say) PoCo when the first 8 cars are platformed instead and are used for the rest of the trip. By doing this you reserve some empty cars for the latter half of the trip when they are needed, and cars 3 through 8 are used for every stop. Some savvy commuters boarding before PoCo might clue in and board the car closest to the front of the train and then migrate to the fairly empty cars when they are opened up at PoCo. Other savvy commuters boarding at Mission might appreciate they can get on cars 9 & 10 knowing that there's an empty seat & they can doze off knowing that after Pitt Meadows they won't be disturbed by people boarding at every remaining station.

In my experience, riders will figure out where 'their car' stops on the platform so they self-select which car to board before the train arrives. Over the course of a few days or weeks, new commuters will experiment with boarding different cars to find 'their fit' - the empty seats, the rolling bridge game, the quiet area, the party section (especially on a Friday heading home). I found that some cars were quite clique-y if you were 'the new kid' so it took some time to fit in - especially if some fellow travellers had been doing the same commute since before you were born (scary but true) and you were upsetting their routine.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

I don't think that the Chicago policy is necessarily one that WCE would want to adopt... in fact it'd probably confuse and anger many riders accustomed to the current situation if such a system is implemented.

is it any worse than the confusion & anger caused when some car doors are locked and you have to walk through two cars before getting to the platform?

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by DKaz

Sorry I was somehow given wrong information, Trains #3 and #4 are only 10 cars each!

Its my understanding from reading the press release that more cars are coming from Bombardier so the whole fleet will be 9 car trains when this project is done (each current train set will have a new Bombardier car added to it).

Adding more trains to the schedule is also desirable, but that involves renegotiating the time slots with CPR so the WCE trains would fit in with the scheduled freight trains on the same tracks.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

That seems kind of ridiculous. Why should people getting on a train at a busy station at the end of the line (in the AM) be forced to stand the entire way into downtown, while people getting on closer to downtown get guaranteed seats. Seems evil.

Or they migrate to a less-full car when it gets unlocked & grab a seat.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Or they migrate to a less-full car when it gets unlocked & grab a seat.

Why not just let them migrate as soon as they get on the train?

Lets simplify for discussion: The train is 5 cars long, there are 5 stations where passengers board before the terminus station (6th) and each platform, besides the terminus, is 1 car long.

If station 1 fills the first car so that there is standing room only, why should the people standing be banned from finding a seat in car 2? They have a longer ride, thus are more deserving of resting their legs than someone who gets on at station 5. People at station 5, who have the shortest trip, are getting onto an empty car (car 5), where they can find seats for their short trip, while people have been standing in car 1 the entire time.

I'm just saying its like school yard thinking, where the people in charge have come up with what they believe is a very clever system, so they punish people who think differently, IE: locking them in a full car when they would naturally want to find an empty seat.

[DKaz]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Fortunately, when WCE was started, all of the station platforms were the same length, so all the cars would platform.

But then they realized that train #1 was barely running at 50% capacity while trains #3 and #4 were overcrowded. Makes sense to put the cars on whatever trains need them.

Originally Posted by jsbertram

In my experience, riders will figure out where 'their car' stops on the platform so they self-select which car to board before the train arrives. Over the course of a few days or weeks, new commuters will experiment with boarding different cars to find 'their fit' - the empty seats, the rolling bridge game, the quiet area, the party section (especially on a Friday heading home). I found that some cars were quite clique-y if you were 'the new kid' so it took some time to fit in - especially if some fellow travellers had been doing the same commute since before you were born (scary but true) and you were upsetting their routine.

I always sit on the third car from the front inbound on the western midlevel going to Vancouver and second car from the back outbound on the top level going to Mission. This is somehow my routine. I mostly socialize on the way home but I like my quiet mornings. There's always a group of 4 to 6 getting on at Maple Meadows Station who sit in my area and whenever some new "jerk" gets on at Mission and sits in their area, you can see an obvious "hey what are you doing here?" expression on their faces. .

Originally Posted by cabotp

I always assumed there was an open gangway between the trains. I've only ridden it once and that was back in the 90's Just took a trip from downtown to Poco. Didn't want to go any further or else I'd be stuck out there. So I never really paid attention to whether there was an open gangway.

As for people not walking to back of the buses. If they don't mind me putting my elbow into their back as I walk by. Fine by me cause I then can sit down.

Yes there is a door between all cars that people may go through,

Originally Posted by jsbertram

is it any worse than the confusion & anger caused when some car doors are locked and you have to walk through two cars before getting to the platform?

What anger and confusion?

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Its my understanding from reading the press release that more cars are coming from Bombardier so the whole fleet will be 9 car trains when this project is done (each current train set will have a new Bombardier car added to it).

Adding more trains to the schedule is also desirable, but that involves renegotiating the time slots with CPR so the WCE trains would fit in with the scheduled freight trains on the same tracks.

No, they were adding a car to each train and gaining two spares (two of the older cars are becoming spares and all the new cars are going into regular service). Yea even though these trains do nothing but carry passengers, things do happen. The washroom exhaust fan can malfunction stinking up the entire car, or there could be a plumbing problem, or the air conditioning system could stop working. Last year there were power problems on Train #4.

In 2014, the current contract expires and a new one can be negotiated. Maybe at that time we can add a trip or two. Even with the 10-car trainsets, the trains are still extremely busy.

[SpikePhanta]

I'm loving the added buses on the 49 route!
Here's my take on the ridership.
Most of the people get on starting at kerr and 49 then gradually the bus gets full before main st. I get off at Oak and the bus is still pretty full.
And all the way to metrotown the bus (old bline one) is probably 3/4 full.

[deasine]

I don't know about you... but there still are times I can't get on the 49 and I'm busing from Elliott.

TransLink is still clearly testing out the 49's schedule-a lot of the times, the buses don't arrive or that they arrive really late, and you'll see a bunch bunched up together. The other day at the UBC loop, the lineup for the 49 was horrendous: worst than the 99 B-Line and that's no joke. Apparently, people in the beginning of the line waited for 20 minutes for the 49. Then, there were a few back-to-back to relieve the amount of people, but that led to no one being able to get on the 49 along the way.

Today, my 49 from UBC going Eastbound (notice Eastbound NOT Westbound) terminated at Dunbar Loop, requiring all of us to transfer. Why are you running it as 49 then? If I wanted to transfer, I would've taken the 41st or 43rd!

[WBC]

Transportation heavyweights gearing up for historic meeting
Lara Fominoff Sep 14, 2010 23:20:54 PM

METRO VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) - TransLink is hoping a closed door meeting between The Premier, Transportation Minister, and Metro Vancouver Mayors next week will go a long way to solving their cash crunch.

It will be the first time that Gordon Campbell, Shirley Bond, Metro Vancouver Mayors and TransLink will all be sitting at the same table trying to figure out a solution to TransLink's financial problems.

Langley Mayor Peter Fassbender, who is also the chair the of Metro Vancouver Mayor's Transportation Council, is hoping they can come up with some viable solutions. "So I think the premier coming and the minister coming is a clear indication that we're willing to work together. And I'm not presuming details at this stage, but we're going to have that kind of a discussion."

He says it's about time they all put their heads together. "We have to find solutions, not just to build infrastructure, but then to have the funds to operate it. That is not going to change. So what we have to do is fin, what are the levels of cooperation we can find to get there?"

The group will also try and figure out how they can get construction on the Evergreen Line finally going.

[Waders]

It looks like there is a high probability some funding formula agreement will be reached by all parties next week.

Langley City Mayor Peter Fassbender, chairman of the Metro mayors’ council on transportation... and TransLink CEO Ian Jarvis will both speak at the Tri-Cities Chamber of Commerce luncheon that follows the meeting. Cambell and Bond will also be in attendance.

Source: http://www.theprovince.com/news/Mayors+P...xt+week/3524841/story.html#ixzz0zZD9kvs3

[SpikePhanta]

Originally Posted by deasine

I don't know about you... but there still are times I can't get on the 49 and I'm busing from Elliott.

TransLink is still clearly testing out the 49's schedule-a lot of the times, the buses don't arrive or that they arrive really late, and you'll see a bunch bunched up together. The other day at the UBC loop, the lineup for the 49 was horrendous: worst than the 99 B-Line and that's no joke. Apparently, people in the beginning of the line waited for 20 minutes for the 49. Then, there were a few back-to-back to relieve the amount of people, but that led to no one being able to get on the 49 along the way.

Today, my 49 from UBC going Eastbound (notice Eastbound NOT Westbound) terminated at Dunbar Loop, requiring all of us to transfer. Why are you running it as 49 then? If I wanted to transfer, I would've taken the 41st or 43rd!

Well, I guess its the time, I catch it at Metrotown at like 7:20 AM, and going eastbound I catch it after 3:20 PM.
Though this morning in the older diesel bus (regular) at around before langara they wouldnt accept any more people.
what time do you take it?

[madmigs]

Check this out, got this link from today's buzzer blog - http://www.swisstrains.ch/. A live map of trains in Switzerland. Think how awesome this would be for buses and trains here

[SpongeG]

i watched the busses on granville today while i waited for a friend - it was like nonstop i didn't know there were so many busses - and at least half a dozen cars in teh mix - like can they not see its busses only?

where are the police to hand out tickets when you need em

[madmigs]

Another excellent article from today's Buzzer Blog, this one is about the 1 year anniversary of the Canada Line. It's long but an excellent read and contains links to a number of reports and surveys. An excellent article if you ever need a link to a report or whatnot to dispute wild claims made by others.

http://regardingplace.com/?p=9549

---

And here's another good article from today's buzzer blog from The Transport Politic(with lots of comments from Zwei, he even trotted out his alter ego, Malcom, to agree with Zwei!). It's about which way to build the skytrain, and mentions the metro draft plan and other factors about the different routes.

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/...ajectory-densify-the-core-or-extend-out/

[madmigs]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

i watched the busses on granville today while i waited for a friend - it was like nonstop i didn't know there were so many busses - and at least half a dozen cars in teh mix - like can they not see its busses only?

where are the police to hand out tickets when you need em

The cops are out ticketing all those jaywalking pedestrians that CoV should have never of built sidewalks for. Hint: sarcasm

[SpongeG]

yah

but one of them was trying to make a left hand turn from granville onto georgia and you know the volume of people there he couldn't get through and the busses were all stacking up behind him it was ridiculous