DENVER | Transportation Thread

[Brainpathology]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Douglas County and/or Castle Rock have voted to stay out of RTD IIRC. But, that is bound to change as Castle Rock's pathetic little attempts at mass transit just ain't cutting it.

Brain, RTD does charge for parking in their lots if you are an out of district resident.

They do?? That's terrific! I didn't know they started doing that. I don't really see a problem with the way that is now then.

I hope you're right about CR, but I don't think that just because a service 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 means people will vote to pay for a better one. Clearly CR government is just wasting money elsewhere that could be going toward better transit. No need to give them more taxes just to waste on other things.

[EngiNerd]

Yes they do, at least its something I suppose, but if its enforced anything like how ticketing is enforced on the LRT trains, then I doubt they are making much from it, and they are also charging in district "parkers" if they are there for more than 24 hours.

http://www.rtd-denver.com/HowToPark.shtml
http://www.rtd-denver.com/ParkNRide.shtml

The fees are more because the parking garages/lots are beyond capacity in some places.

[Brainpathology]

Thanks for the link.. those rates are a joke though. At least charge what it would cost to pay someone to collect fees and write tickets! The ticket schedule is also a joke, but that may be my getting used to what friends pay for tickets here (50 bucks for not turning your wheels in on the slightest of hills etc).

But you're right it's 'something'. And it would be hard for me to really push to be punitive toward the people who actually try to use light rail. I would very vehemently oppose any extension of rail that RTD helped pay for or develop that crossed into the borders of any area that wasn't paying the tax though (not that anything like that is planned).

[bunt_q]

Well, when you factor in the actual fares, which are kind of obnoxious now... it gets pretty expensive for out-of-district-ers to use the light rail. Say, for example, driving to Lincoln and taking the train in. It's cost-prohibitive now unless you are alone. We ran into it driving from the Springs (only here temporarily folks!) for a Rockies game - with two people in the car, it's cheaper to drive in and pay to park (that's driving at 15 mpg, and parking on a game day - still doesn't add up).

As for whether it saves time... the way RTD has it structured now (the pay-for-parking) is quite annoying. You park, walk down to the TVMs at the platform, get your parking ticket, and walk it back up to put it on your dash. The time is probably negligible, but the annoyance is real. But all in all, I think it takes longer (even in traffic - all but the worst traffic) to park and ride. I am sure that will change over time, but right now, I am struggling to see the advantage of light rail, and I REALLY would prefer transit. Doesn't help that the stations are all in absurd locations - Lincoln is not at Lincoln. Southmoor is a real joke, so far from Hampden (shame Mayor Webb lost that battle). All in all, the southeast corridor is nowhere near as useful (for commuting) as the Southwest. Better TOD opportunities though, let's hope over time that makes up for an inconvenient line in a bad highway ROW with an absurd fare structure.

The entire RTD fare structure is geared toward eco-pass-holders. I'd like to do some research into what percentage of riders are pass-holders, and how much revenue RTD gets from pass programs compared to cash riders (and now parkers). Assuming eco-pass holders still pay to park, that's probably why the rates are so low.

[Brainpathology]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Well, when you factor in the actual fares, which are kind of obnoxious now... it gets pretty expensive for out-of-district-ers to use the light rail. Say, for example, driving to Lincoln and taking the train in. It's cost-prohibitive now unless you are alone. We ran into it driving from the Springs (only here temporarily folks!) for a Rockies game - with two people in the car, it's cheaper to drive in and pay to park (that's driving at 15 mpg, and parking on a game day - still doesn't add up).

As for whether it saves time... the way RTD has it structured now (the pay-for-parking) is quite annoying. You park, walk down to the TVMs at the platform, get your parking ticket, and walk it back up to put it on your dash. The time is probably negligible, but the annoyance is real. But all in all, I think it takes longer (even in traffic - all but the worst traffic) to park and ride. I am sure that will change over time, but right now, I am struggling to see the advantage of light rail, and I REALLY would prefer transit. Doesn't help that the stations are all in absurd locations - Lincoln is not at Lincoln. Southmoor is a real joke, so far from Hampden (shame Mayor Webb lost that battle). All in all, the southeast corridor is nowhere near as useful (for commuting) as the Southwest. Better TOD opportunities though, let's hope over time that makes up for an inconvenient line in a bad highway ROW with an absurd fare structure.

The entire RTD fare structure is geared toward eco-pass-holders. I'd like to do some research into what percentage of riders are pass-holders, and how much revenue RTD gets from pass programs compared to cash riders (and now parkers). Assuming eco-pass holders still pay to park, that's probably why the rates are so low.

Yeah the fare structure is weird. I like the per boarding structure here in LA. there is never a doubt how much you need to come with. Or you just get a pass. I know the ridership and population density in the Denver area just doesn't allow that sort of pricing now though. The advantages I use transit for just don't apply in going to a rockies game from COS so I can't really speak to that. I'm not sure I'd ever be in the situation to make that choice. Knowing me I'd probably pay the extra to not deal with after-game traffic downtown though, but that also means I'd have not as much choice about where to eat or get a drink after the game if I wanted to.

Kinda curious about RTD's eco-pass program too. But if you have a license out of the district it seems like you'd have to pay - that's the only qualification I could find on the page Enginerd put a link to.

[Cirrus]

The census bureau admitted to undercounting Boulder's population and added about 6,000 people to their count within the past year or so.

More people?! Bet that upset a lot of Boulderites.

I am struggling to see the advantage of light rail, and I REALLY would prefer transit. The southeast corridor is nowhere near as useful (for commuting) as the Southwest.

Too many stations too close together for a commuter line, too few stations too close to the highway for good TOD. Should have built it as a commuter line and used the savings to go through DTC rather than around.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Too many stations too close together for a commuter line, too few stations too close to the highway for good TOD. I wish we had that one to do over again.

Seems like the SE line is all about what will be coming. The TOD's are the saving grace in the DTC area, but not cutting through the DTC area was a major mistake. Hopefully this all works out over the next twenty years. If Bellview Station and the Arapaho Stations become decent TOD's then there's hope.

Now the SW and West corridors? Those are pretty decent layouts. Though the chance for future TOD's along the SW corridor is really limited (south of Littleton Station it seems as if all of the stations are destined to always be commuter stations, not a bad thing per se, but still) and the Englewood TOD can be so, so, so much more.

[Cirrus]

TOD will be both the SE line's greatest accomplishment and its greatest failing.

Those that are built will be OK, but so much more limited than what we could have had with a DTC route.

[CharlesCO]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

You park, walk down to the TVMs at the platform, get your parking ticket, and walk it back up to put it on your dash. The time is probably negligible, but the annoyance is real.

I don't understand the parking at all. I usually use the Englewood station, and the parking is free there (at least I think it is). I tried the DU station about a month ago and could not figure it out. I got a ticket from a machine, parked, walked to the platform, and saw a box to stuff parking money (I guess??) in a mini envelope. I didn't understand what the envelopes were or how much to pay, and I didn't like the idea of just stuffing money into a random box, so I didn't put anything in it. When I came back to leave, I handed my ticket to the clerk in the booth and drove away, never hearing anything more of it.

Was this the right way to do things, or should I have paid something?

[wong21fr]

Parking fees are only for out of district residents. If you're in the Denver Metro Area you have no worries.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Parking fees are only for out of district residents. If you're in the Denver Metro Area you have no worries.

Unless you stay longer than just the day, then you still have to figure out the convoluted pay to park, even in district.

[EngiNerd]

Yes, parking fees only for those out of the district...if you are concerned if you are there is a link I posted above where you can check you license plate number to see if its in or out. And then if you are in district, you have to stay for more than 24 hours to be required to pay.

[bunt_q]

So, I have no doubt this was posted before while I was away (from RTD's 2009 - dated April 2010 - Fastracks report to DRCOG). I am curious about everybody's thoughts on the content and, of course, the stylistic representation of the system.

Also, anybody around here have better graphical skills than me and a lot of time on your hands to recolor the lines by line rather than by headways? I know Steve (I think it was Steve) did something London-ish a while back for Fastracks, but I can't find it and can't recall how well it matched up to what RTD is envisioning.

[Strange Meat]

So, none of the lines going north will be through lines, right? They'll all have a terminus at Union Station?

Also, if you're coming from out in Lakewood, it looks like if you want to go to, say, 16th and Cali or down to Littleton or Lincoln, you'll need a transfer, right?

[bunt_q]

To 16th and California you'll just have to go to Union Station and take the downtown circulator or walk. Ridiculous that the West Corridor couldn't be tied into the Central Corridor, but alas... To Littleton or Lincoln, yes, a transfer.

The north/east lines are all going to be a different technology (EMU) from the south/west lines (LRT), so definitely no through lines.

[SnyderBock]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

...I know Steve (I think it was Steve) did something London-ish a while back for Fastracks, but I can't find it and can't recall how well it matched up to what RTD is envisioning.

Here is his London style transit map for post FasTracks RTD system:

[SnyderBock]

Anyone have recent photos of the construction along the West Corridor?

[The Dirt]

I find it odd that the lines going up I-225 don't actually go to Union Station. Also, in my opinion, the central corridor should go to Union Station, since it's really only 2 stops out of the way. If people want to cut time, they could hop off at Auraria West for a transfer. Actually, I find the whole Central corridor to be odd. It only marginally serves downtown. Given enough time, I'd axe the whole line and replace it with a streetcar system that would tie into a future 16th/Colfax street car.

[DenverInfill]

I've created a revised FasTracks graphical map that I'll be posting at DenverInfill one of these days.

[Midnight Cowboy]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Parking fees are only for out of district residents. If you're in the Denver Metro Area you have no worries.

If you are in-district, do you need a ticket displayed in your front window stating that you are in district, or do the RTD cops check each individual license plate number in every parking lot? Not that I care, as I never drive to the LT stations.