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  #1341  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2010, 2:04 AM
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  #1342  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2010, 8:31 AM
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Originally Posted by SubwayRev View Post
Why the big push for increased police spending, when crime is at its lowest level in forty years? I don't understand this. Almost all crime in Alberta is down, including violent crime, drug crimes and property crime. But to hear some government people talking, it sounds like Canada is turning into Detroit.
Thank you. About time somebody said this. We live in one of the safest cities in the world. Random acts of violent crime are almost non-existent. Same with property crime, and yet people are terrified of crime in this city. It is very ironic that one of the safest cities in the world is so caught up in crime.

I remember driving through Forest Lawn about 4 years ago. I had heard so much about how dangerous it was, and my girlfriend at the time even told me to lock my doors as we drove through. This was just after I came back from South America, where I spent time in places that were actually dangerous. Based on the reputation that Forest Lawn had, I was really expecting something terrible. All I could think was "THIS is Forest Lawn. Where are all the bad people?" It seemed like a incredibly safe neighbourhood compared to what I had experienced in South America.

Truth is, Calgarians are overly sensitive about crime and safety. Mostly because they have actually never been anywhere that is actually dangerous, so they have nothing to compare it to.
     
     
  #1343  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2010, 3:33 PM
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Truth is, Calgarians are overly sensitive about crime and safety. Mostly because they have actually never been anywhere that is actually dangerous, so they have nothing to compare it to.
Ignatieff in trying to defend the retention of the gun registry noted that most police forces were in favor of keeping the registry while the government wanted to get rid of it. His question was "which do you trust, the government, or the police?"

I think this is a more interesting question than what he thought the obvious answer was.

Frankly, I'd like to see a mayor that has a little more backbone to question ALL essential services as far as "we need more...". Police will always say crime is too high, Fire departments will always say response time is too slow, etc. I was getting pretty tired of Bronco pushing the 'more cops for a safer city' line; time to give the police force the same budgetary scrutiny the rest of the city (should) have.
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  #1344  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2010, 7:25 PM
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I'd put the issue in three categories when it comes to crime.

1) Perception of crime in the downtown core - mostly due to the influx of migrant workers that came to Calgary with little more then a backpack full of clothes thinking we handed out bars of gold at the city gates and found things a bit more difficult after they arrived and caused a lot of grubby "undesirables" around the eastern edge of downtown. Some of the problem still exists, but largely a lot better as I suspect some of those people have moved on or gone back to where they came from. Most of them weren't really problems in the first place, they just gave off a bad vibe that scared Joe and Jane Calgarian.

2) Downtown crime and drug related issues - the open drug dealing and use around the Cecil/drop in center, along 7th avenue, the riverfront area was a problem. I used to see open drug deals pretty much every day. In the last year though, I can only recall a very few instances of such activity. It's much cleaned up due in part to beat patrols and bike patrols in the area.

3) Gang activity related crimes - Not as many gang shooting in the city I'd say in my anecdotal assessment of watching local news. Still, we're a major city and it's never going to be completely gone.


We do not need more cops anymore, I think levels are more then adequate at the moment, and I only ever felt unsafe walking past the Cecil one time, and that was still while it was open. A crack head was tripping balls and standing on the corner by the Cecil and actively stepped in toward me with a look on his face like he wanted to shank me. Good think he was cracked out as I just side stepped around him and kept walking. That incident was nearly 3 years ago.

I wouldn't say cut police services at all, but the idea we need to keep screaming for money for police when crime keeps trending downward in the city and the country as a whole is ludicrous. It's a tried and true Conservative mantra though to drive paranoid voters to the polls, hence why Harper wants to spend $9 billion on jails and corrections.

Calgary is a bit of an enigma, we vote at the civic level center with a slight lean left (usually) but the city and province lean center right provincially and federally. Any candidate that comes out "anti-police" is going to come off bad, even if they have proof with hard stats that levels are adequate, so not too many candidates are going to. They'd be best to ignore the issue as tactfully as they can.
     
     
  #1345  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2010, 8:26 PM
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If a US city had as low a "Violent Crime" rate as Calgary and some other Canadian cities, (given most of these crimes are commited in the central areas) there would be a lot more people living in these central areas as there are now! Calgary's population has a perception that the core is unsafe, and it is quite the oposite.
     
     
  #1346  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2010, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by mooky View Post
I'd put the issue in three categories when it comes to crime.

1) Perception of crime in the downtown core - mostly due to the influx of migrant workers that came to Calgary with little more then a backpack full of clothes thinking we handed out bars of gold at the city gates and found things a bit more difficult after they arrived and caused a lot of grubby "undesirables" around the eastern edge of downtown. Some of the problem still exists, but largely a lot better as I suspect some of those people have moved on or gone back to where they came from. Most of them weren't really problems in the first place, they just gave off a bad vibe that scared Joe and Jane Calgarian.

2) Downtown crime and drug related issues - the open drug dealing and use around the Cecil/drop in center, along 7th avenue, the riverfront area was a problem. I used to see open drug deals pretty much every day. In the last year though, I can only recall a very few instances of such activity. It's much cleaned up due in part to beat patrols and bike patrols in the area.

3) Gang activity related crimes - Not as many gang shooting in the city I'd say in my anecdotal assessment of watching local news. Still, we're a major city and it's never going to be completely gone.


We do not need more cops anymore, I think levels are more then adequate at the moment, and I only ever felt unsafe walking past the Cecil one time, and that was still while it was open. A crack head was tripping balls and standing on the corner by the Cecil and actively stepped in toward me with a look on his face like he wanted to shank me. Good think he was cracked out as I just side stepped around him and kept walking. That incident was nearly 3 years ago.

I wouldn't say cut police services at all, but the idea we need to keep screaming for money for police when crime keeps trending downward in the city and the country as a whole is ludicrous. It's a tried and true Conservative mantra though to drive paranoid voters to the polls, hence why Harper wants to spend $9 billion on jails and corrections.

Calgary is a bit of an enigma, we vote at the civic level center with a slight lean left (usually) but the city and province lean center right provincially and federally. Any candidate that comes out "anti-police" is going to come off bad, even if they have proof with hard stats that levels are adequate, so not too many candidates are going to. They'd be best to ignore the issue as tactfully as they can.
I am concerned about specifics of crime through open air drug dealing, or organized crime. There are spots this year like at the corner of Memorial Drive and Edmonton Trail, where open air drug dealing occurred on a daily basis throughout summer. Drug dealing actually creates more crime because each drug dealer is capable of supplying 50 or so users with drugs who then are likely to use whatever means to get the funds for the drugs. This creates more break-ins and also result in other problems like heavier use of homeless shelters due to addictions.

Nenshi has released a total of zero better ideas, and zero of his campaign themes concern the issue of policing. The police services budget is one of the major functions of a city, so if he doesn't have any plan for Calgary police then I am very concerned. It is also where a very large share of spending for the City of Calgary goes, so it's important that Nenshi at least spends a proportionate amount of his time understanding this issue.

Nenshi has said things like "where the streets are safe because they always have people on them.". I think he is confusing cause and effect. Density and crime per capita and not necessarily related, but when you have foot traffic, it is set to be a marketplace. And sometimes, that marketplace includes drugs, like in the East Village. If Nenshi doesn't have a plan to interrupt these marketplaces, and thinks simply higher density will solve crime then I don't think that is a credible plan.

High levels of crime are also likely to increase car dependency. If someone is concerned about crime, then they are more likely to use a car for physical protection. At a minimum, Calgary needs to include a plan and budgeting to be actively targeting these marketplaces of crime (drugdealing). A lack of a plan to effectively deal with crime will result in a deterrence to investment in Calgary. Higgins has promised to maintain police spending, and has properly placed crime management as a second most important priority.

In addition, Calgary already has relatively low crime per capita, but it also has low amounts of police officers per capita. Calgary needs a mayor who will work with the interdepartmental agencies including the police to tackle crime. Higgins work with one of those components, the United Way, would serve her well as mayor.

The current level of funding seems about right for the police. There needs to be things like beat cops on bikes in some areas to be able to keep on top of the open air drug dealing. Higgins has promised to maintain current levels of police funding. Nenshi on the other hand, it's a big question...

As far as I know, he has not addressed what he plans to cut. There's the 6% forecast budget increase and a $60 million shortfall (~ another 6%) increase in addition, plus his additional plan to build the tunnel, which the City of Calgary presented two options (the need $350 million, and the optional $150 million). Naheed has defined the tunnel as a need, which leaves the question of where he plans to cut...

I'm not against moderate tax increases, but it's important to beware that there are also seniors on fixed income pensions in the city who are perhaps most at risk from large tax increases.
     
     
  #1347  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2010, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by fusili View Post
Thank you. About time somebody said this. We live in one of the safest cities in the world. Random acts of violent crime are almost non-existent. Same with property crime, and yet people are terrified of crime in this city. It is very ironic that one of the safest cities in the world is so caught up in crime.

I remember driving through Forest Lawn about 4 years ago. I had heard so much about how dangerous it was, and my girlfriend at the time even told me to lock my doors as we drove through. This was just after I came back from South America, where I spent time in places that were actually dangerous. Based on the reputation that Forest Lawn had, I was really expecting something terrible. All I could think was "THIS is Forest Lawn. Where are all the bad people?" It seemed like a incredibly safe neighbourhood compared to what I had experienced in South America.

Truth is, Calgarians are overly sensitive about crime and safety. Mostly because they have actually never been anywhere that is actually dangerous, so they have nothing to compare it to.
On a personal level, I have had in Calgary within couple years of living here, my bike has been stolen (locked up), my jeep has been stolen and after recovering found rubber tubes that those druggies use around there arm in it, 3 incidents of graffiti vandalism on my property in the last year, plus car has been keyed, and the antenna ripped out. There needs to be adequate policing that will not deter investment if Calgary wants to be a vibrant city.

Beltline looks like a pincushion on this website:

http://crimemap.calgarypolice.ca/content/DisclaimerPage.aspx

Bottom line, there needs to be effective Calgary of Police for targeting openair drug dealing...
     
     
  #1348  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2010, 11:00 PM
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I'm not following you here. I guess my thought is, crime isn't the problem in Calgary you make it out to be, so I disagree with it needing so much attention. And I surely don't think it needs to be the cornerstone of any campaign.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radley77 View Post
I am concerned about specifics of crime through open air drug dealing, or organized crime. There are spots this year like at the corner of Memorial Drive and Edmonton Trail, where open air drug dealing occurred on a daily basis throughout summer. Drug dealing actually creates more crime because each drug dealer is capable of supplying 50 or so users with drugs who then are likely to use whatever means to get the funds for the drugs. This creates more break-ins and also result in other problems like heavier use of homeless shelters due to addictions.
First off, I don't see drugs as being a real, overt problem in this city. Sure there is a drug trade, but let's be realistic, it isn't destroying the city.

Secondly, trying to stop the drug tade by fighting the dealers on the street isn't the way to go. The problem needs to be stopped on the supply side, which is something local police aren't really capable of fighting, and it certainly can't be done with "more officers on the beat." Trying to stop drug trafficking at the street level leaves you with the United States; over 2,000,000 people in prison, most on drug charges, and absolutely zero decrease in drug trafficking.

Quote:
High levels of crime are also likely to increase car dependency. If someone is concerned about crime, then they are more likely to use a car for physical protection.
Are you sure about this? I'm not buying it. And if it is true, Calgary is so far away from reaching that crime level, it isn't anything we need to worry about.

Quote:
Higgins has promised to maintain current levels of police funding.
Is that really a plan? "Will work with police" isn't a plan either, it's unavoidable. Regardless of who is mayor, they will work with police and other social agencies. I think it's fair to say that none of the mayoral candidates have any real 'plan' for crime, other than to maintain the status quo, which for most people seems to be working just fine.
     
     
  #1349  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2010, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Radley77 View Post
Nenshi has said things like "where the streets are safe because they always have people on them.". I think he is confusing cause and effect. Density and crime per capita and not necessarily related, but when you have foot traffic, it is set to be a marketplace. And sometimes, that marketplace includes drugs, like in the East Village. If Nenshi doesn't have a plan to interrupt these marketplaces, and thinks simply higher density will solve crime then I don't think that is a credible plan.
Although he is being a bit vague, I believe he is talking about crime prevention through environmental design (CPTED).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Radley77 View Post
Higgins has promised to maintain police spending, and has properly placed crime management as a second most important priority.
Isn't she doing the same thing you accuse Nenshi of doing? She says she'll maintain spending, but how will this spending occur? What's her plan? CPTED? A task force aimed at inner-city crime or open-air drug dealing?
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  #1350  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2010, 11:27 PM
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On a personal level, I have had in Calgary within couple years of living here, my bike has been stolen (locked up), my jeep has been stolen and after recovering found rubber tubes that those druggies use around there arm in it, 3 incidents of graffiti vandalism on my property in the last year, plus car has been keyed, and the antenna ripped out. There needs to be adequate policing that will not deter investment if Calgary wants to be a vibrant city.

Beltline looks like a pincushion on this website:

http://crimemap.calgarypolice.ca/content/DisclaimerPage.aspx

Bottom line, there needs to be effective Calgary of Police for targeting openair drug dealing...
Maybe I'm using it wrong, but over a 6 month period the only numbers that seem much higher in the beltline and downtown area is assault. Even assault makes sense to me, as thousands of non residents pour into the area on the weekends to hit the bars and clubs, and fights ensue.

Property Crime


Personal Crime


It's covered up but the blue Assaults pin in the Beltline is 53.
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  #1351  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2010, 12:17 AM
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Nenshi Headquarters vandalized

     
     
  #1352  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2010, 1:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Radley77 View Post
On a personal level, I have had in Calgary within couple years of living here, my bike has been stolen (locked up), my jeep has been stolen and after recovering found rubber tubes that those druggies use around there arm in it, 3 incidents of graffiti vandalism on my property in the last year, plus car has been keyed, and the antenna ripped out. There needs to be adequate policing that will not deter investment if Calgary wants to be a vibrant city.
Won't disagree about your personal stories, and it is incredibly unfortunate that these crimes happened to you. I don't wish anyone to have that happen to them. But what you are describing are property crimes and minor thefts, and not cases of crimes where you were in any physical danger. Actual physical assaults (excluding bar violence) are extremely rare in Calgary. Most crime in Calgary is a horrible inconvenience, but rarely a threat to physical safety.

On the other hand, in some places in Rio, the murder rate is so high that it is comparable to an armed conflict. In La Paz, people kidnap you, take you to several ATMs to withdraw all your money and then shoot you and bury you in unmarked graves. Those places are dangerous.

I am not saying we shouldn't do anything at all about crime in Calgary, I am just saying Calgarians seem to be ultra-sensitive to crime considering they live in what must be one of the safest places in the world.
     
     
  #1353  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2010, 3:05 AM
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I'm not following you here. I guess my thought is, crime isn't the problem in Calgary you make it out to be, so I disagree with it needing so much attention. And I surely don't think it needs to be the cornerstone of any campaign.



First off, I don't see drugs as being a real, overt problem in this city. Sure there is a drug trade, but let's be realistic, it isn't destroying the city.

Secondly, trying to stop the drug tade by fighting the dealers on the street isn't the way to go. The problem needs to be stopped on the supply side, which is something local police aren't really capable of fighting, and it certainly can't be done with "more officers on the beat." Trying to stop drug trafficking at the street level leaves you with the United States; over 2,000,000 people in prison, most on drug charges, and absolutely zero decrease in drug trafficking.



Are you sure about this? I'm not buying it. And if it is true, Calgary is so far away from reaching that crime level, it isn't anything we need to worry about.



Is that really a plan? "Will work with police" isn't a plan either, it's unavoidable. Regardless of who is mayor, they will work with police and other social agencies. I think it's fair to say that none of the mayoral candidates have any real 'plan' for crime, other than to maintain the status quo, which for most people seems to be working just fine.
He is looking at drugs as a supply issue. Whether the supply is tackled at the retail level as he advocates or the larger distribution level is immaterial. The supply cannot be stopped; if the risks for those engaged in the activity rise then the price of the product will rise but there will always be people willing to take those risks.
     
     
  #1354  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2010, 6:04 AM
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I would agree 100% ... I herd of this news today. It's sad to see individuals draw up such negative stereotypes from mainstream media sources and re-runs of shows like "Flight 93" all day. This only adds fuel towards individuals hatred towards muslims sadly.

I'm happy that Nenshi will get a great deal more public attention from all this, which should help him gain even more support in the polls. I have no doubt he will seize the moment and capitalize on all the media attention from this, and build on already strong platform.
     
     
  #1355  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2010, 12:52 PM
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It was very upsetting to get back into town yesterday evening and hear about the vandalism. However, as Calgary Guy has said this does give his campaign even more exposure, so there is a silver lining to this dark cloud.
     
     
  #1356  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2010, 3:22 PM
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Very disgraceful act on behalf of some ignorant jackass, but good on Nenshi for taking it in stride.
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  #1357  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2010, 3:41 PM
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Hi,

Maybe I'm making this up in my head, but I thought I had heard Nenshi suggest controlling the police budget through means other than recruiting. Things such as reducing administration costs (no more clicky pens) and extending vehicle life an additional year.

Does this sound familiar?

As for crime in Calgary, I had my car broken into three times and had the stereo pulled out and left behind (all three times). This was in 1994/95. I watched a guy take a tooth-removing-licking outside the Warehouse in 1992. My graffiti artist friend took a shining to the alleys along 12 Ave and 1 St throughout the 90's. I guess his art could be considered crime. In 1989 I had my bike stolen, and in 1986 someone broke into my friends family van.

That's it for me. Calgary seems pretty safe to me, but that may be due to me being a healthy male.

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  #1358  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2010, 3:43 PM
mr.steevo mr.steevo is offline
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Hi

Is Nenshi even Muslim?

s.
     
     
  #1359  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2010, 3:51 PM
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Hi

Is Nenshi even Muslim?

s.
I believe he is Ismaili.
     
     
  #1360  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2010, 6:00 PM
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I believe he is Ismaili.
Also called Muslim Light. Ismailis are a more spiritual (if that term makes sense) brand of Shiite Islam. There are a lot of Ismailis in Calgary. There is a very large group of Ismailis that lived in Kenya and other eastern African countries, and many moved here over the last few decades because of discrimination etc in those African countries. Ismailis also seem to do a lot of charity work through things like The Aga Khan Foundation.
     
     
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