Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[deasine]

Having different operators can work if TransLink contracts these services out as RFPs for different companies as if they operate like the Canada Line PPP system. To the consumer, it looks like everything is the same, unified system.

[madmigs]

Originally Posted by deasine

Having different operators can work if TransLink contracts these services out as RFPs for different companies as if they operate like the Canada Line PPP system. To the consumer, it looks like everything is the same, unified system.

So basically the other operator would build station and track for skytrain to exact specs, as well as run the station, and would then pay translink for cops and to run the trains to their new station? Operator gets certain % of fares purchased at the station or per boarding or something. People are happy with new station.

Back to reality - as much as I would like that to happen, I don't think the people would go for it. Either that or the other operator cut corners and takes down entire skytrain network, thus resulting in a lynching or two.

I can see maybe building new track and a station maybe, just with translink operating it. Just pay owner monthly rent-to-own fee which in the end will be more expensive than translink building it outright, but those costs will come from the operating budget, not the capital budget. And seeing as skytrain more than pays for itself overall, that could work. Oh wait this sounds like first scenario I outlined except for other operator not running the station, just building it and owning it with translink being the tenant

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by deasine

Having different operators can work if TransLink contracts these services out as RFPs for different companies as if they operate like the Canada Line PPP system. To the consumer, it looks like everything is the same, unified system.

Similar to the PPP used for the Canada Line, but instead a PPP may be structured so that the private company "BroadwayTransitCo" builds a new SkyTrain line to Translink's specifications and maintains the stations & tracks &tc. on this new line.

Translink gets all the ticket revenue and maintains & operates the trains, and pays "BroadwayTransitCo" a fee for using their tracks & stations. This fee is calculated based on up-time & availability of the tracks & stations for Translink to run their trains, and is sufficient for "BroadwayTransitCo" to staff and maintain their infrastructure for the life of the contract (50 years?) and generate a reasonable annual profit for decades.


I think this may be how the Millennium Line may get the extra $450 million from private sources, and if successful can be the basis for building the UBC Line and Surrey Line.


Toronto was trying to do a PPP to build their new airport line from downtown to Pearson, but the private company they were negotiating with walked away from the deal because the profits couldn't be guaranteed & therefor no bank would finance it during these flakey economic times.

Now the Ontario gov't is doing it themselves because it was promised for the PanAm games in 2015.

[DKaz]

Well I'm thinking if I start an Abbotsford to Waterfront express, I would charge $8.75 for someone to go from Abbotsford to Waterfront, where they can complete their trip with a $2.50 fare. Same with a monthly fare, I would charge $217.50 for a 4 week pass and they can pay $81 for a monthly fare to complete their trip downtown. This way I'm priced the same as West Coast Express.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by nname

If I remember correctly, the government ended up buying share of the company (or something like that) to help pay for the cost overruns.

The Government indirectly paid for it. While the money was supposed to be privately raised for the BOT scheme, much of the money came to the consortium through Government owned corporations or government loans when the consortium failed to meet deadlines. And much of the money they did borrow from private sources came with such a high interest rate, that the consortium has only managed to make an operating profit last year (after massive labor cuts), but it was still a net loss of something like $150million when you include debt financing (which I think they managed to cut in half) and amortization of the line (which they also managed to improve).

[CLC]

Originally Posted by cabotp

I read on the Buzzer Blog. Apparently they are going to start with 6 Arc buses. At the end of September they will see how things are going and could possibly had more Arcs to the route. Of course this isn't set in stone and nothing else could happen.

The reply on Buzzer Blog comments section does not seem official.
In any case #49 situation is still really ugly, particularly on afternoon. The problem is C-Line transfer-to-bus passengers often fill eastbound bus to almost full, leaves no room for Langara stops.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by CLC

The reply on Buzzer Blog comments section does not seem official.
In any case #49 situation is still really ugly, particularly on afternoon. The problem is C-Line transfer-to-bus passengers often fill eastbound bus to almost full, leaves no room for Langara stops.

I saw a lineup around the corner down Cambie the other day. Reminded me of Olympic lines.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by CLC

The reply on Buzzer Blog comments section does not seem official.
In any case #49 situation is still really ugly, particularly on afternoon. The problem is C-Line transfer-to-bus passengers often fill eastbound bus to almost full, leaves no room for Langara stops.

I only said I that I read about it on the Buzzer Blog. Not that it was an official reply.

[deasine]

I find that the 49 is one of the most challenging bus routes to plan in Metro Vancouver. Most routes, where ridership is either evenly distributed throughout the route or where ridership gradually increases as the bus reaches its final destination. This is not the case for the 49.

In the Westbound Peak Hour Direction: the bus reaches its capacity between Keer-Victoria, and dramatically drops at Langara-Cambie, then increases slightly again when it reaches Dunbar/UBC.

In the Eastbound Peak Hour Direction: buses reaches its capacity at Arbutus-Granville, drops at Cambie, where it picks up more passengers, then only begins gradually decreases in number of passengers after Knight.

These fluctuations make it a real challenge to plan for the 49. I find that the capacity for articulated buses is wasted after Langara/Cambie in the peak hour direction, but yet, the articulated buses are necessary from Metrotown-Langara/Cambie. I know that we do have short-turn buses that only run from Metrotown-Langara, but I don't think that's a good solution to the problem.

What I think needs to happen is that TransLink needs to implement a new bus route (either from Joyce, Patterson, or Metrotown), and run the buses along 54th and 57th Avenue, then going back to Langara when it reaches Main. They can then terminate there, or run to Dunbar Loop via 57th. As demand for the route progresses, some buses can then run to UBC.

[SpongeG]

what happenned to skytrain today?

I just missed it on the news - sounds like the system was shut down most of the morning?

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I saw a lineup around the corner down Cambie the other day. Reminded me of Olympic lines.

Lines: Our Olympic Legacy.

P.S. Skytrain was broken this morning, but seems to be back to normal.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/09/10/bc-skytrain-breakdown.html

All the more reason to extend Millennium line to City Hall, pronto. If the M-Line went through to the Canada Line, it would offer an alternative to get massive amounts of people into downtown when the Expo Line segment is down (or reduced). I would rather ride Skytrain around in the opposite direction than wait for a bus bridge bus at Metrotown to take me all the way downtown.

[DKaz]

Yea a few of my coworkers were a couple of hours late to work today.

[CLC]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

All the more reason to extend Millennium line to City Hall, pronto. If the M-Line went through to the Canada Line, it would offer an alternative to get massive amounts of people into downtown when the Expo Line segment is down (or reduced). I would rather ride Skytrain around in the opposite direction than wait for a bus bridge bus at Metrotown to take me all the way downtown.

The reliability of bus bridge was illustrated in a conversation captured by Vancouver Sun reporter:

Outside Waterfront Station, a Coast Mountain Bus Transit Supervisor was directing buses over his cell phone to come in and pick up riders going back down the line.

“I believe the SkyTrain is down, that’s all I know, and we are trying to set up a bus bridge to get people from here to Joyce Station,” said the supervisor, Michael, who would not provide his last name.

He was on his cellphone with the driver of bus 8143 as it came down Seymour Street and got into position outside Waterfront Station. It was not the first in the bridge he said, and certainly not the last.

Snider later confirmed that 18 buses were diverted for the bridge between Metrotown and Waterfront.

“Since this was at the height of rush hour, CMBC didn't have many buses (or bus drivers) to pull from regular service and put onto the bus bridge,” Snider said.

As a dozen passengers boarded bus 8143, Michael instructed the bus driver to head first to Granville Station: “Then make a left on Georgia Street. Take the viaduct, and right on Main. Pick up at the Main Station. From Main, you’re going to go up Broadway. At the Broadway Station, dropoff and pickup and then from there, go to Nanaimo Station, then 29th and Joyce, however you can get there.”

“It only stops at the SkyTrain stations?” the driver asked.

“SkyTrain station, SkyTrain stations, this is a SkyTrain bus,” the supervisor replied.

[CLC]

Originally Posted by deasine

What I think needs to happen is that TransLink needs to implement a new bus route (either from Joyce, Patterson, or Metrotown), and run the buses along 54th and 57th Avenue, then going back to Langara when it reaches Main. They can then terminate there, or run to Dunbar Loop via 57th. As demand for the route progresses, some buses can then run to UBC.

If there is funding for new route in Vancouver, I 100% agree running buses along 54th and 57th is the only way to alleviate the crush section of #49 route. However I cannot think of the ideal endpoints of such a new route, but if it is not going to reach Dunbar loop, I believe the route should get at least to Cambie so that customers can transfer to C-Line (then, say to other UBC bound routes)

[usog]

Very detailed description by the Vancouver Sun on the little act of god today: http://www.vancouversun.com/Metal+tracks+brings+SkyTrain+halt+thousands+riders/3506031/story.html They said a bunch of communication wire was ripped out, I was under the impression the skytrains communicated wirelessly?

[CLC]

^ Isn't physically wired still being faster, safe and reliable than wireless?

More reading about today act on Vancouver Sun reporter blog:
http://communities.canada.com/vancouvers...s-of-metro-vancouver-transit-riders.aspx

[deasine]

The SkyTrain communicates with the OMC, detailing its precise location through wires on the track. These are those two sets of wires running parallel with the tracks between the two rails and beside the linear magnetic strip. They are basically wires on little metal sticks, where there's a little metal knob linking the wire and stick together. Everytime the train crosses a knob, the location of the train is sent back to the OMC.

[Mac Write]

Why weren't the trains able to be driven manually and single track it until the communication lines could be fixed?

They need to add signs on the buses for "Skybus Expo Line." Translink has buses in storage. 30-40+ should be at ready status so if the Skytrain goes down, they can be deployed as a bus bridge within 15-60 minutes (pulling drivers from the spare board). Yes this would cost some money, but it is critical when Skytrain goes down.

[madmigs]

Hey guys,

I could use some help - some dude going by chemical engineer(but never in the name field) is trying to claim it would be better if the people that took diesel buses would drive instead(at least with respect to toxins and GHG) on a Georgia Straight article - http://www.straight.com/node/344939. "Migzy" is me. Feel free to "agree" my comments and disagree his, and/or add helpful comments. In any case, I have disputed his every statement but he somehow is claiming I am helping his cause. Yes I know he is a "troll" but it would at least be good to have others agree with me(even if just on this thread)

To try and make his numbers work, he is also is somehow trying to say that 100,000 people would translate into 70,000 cars. I posted this in reply(needs GS mod approval before goes live) to show that doesn't make sense:

Let’s say out of 100,000 people, 50,000 drove alone. That leaves 50,000 to pack into 20,000 cars or 2.5 people/car. But 50% of people carpool, really? Even if we said 60,000 drove alone, that leaves 40,000 to pack into 10,000 cars of 4 people/car. Even 40% of people carpooling seems extreme and so does packing 4 to a car.

Some things I can't find(and please provide link if you have it), and I'll probably email translink if no-one has it, as now I am curious:
- the mpg(US gallon please) of translink's diesel buses(% of total service km would be ok as I know how much they spent on diesel in 2009 - $42 million and can approximate using $0.75/L)
- % of total service hours that are diesel
- where are monthly passes/etc counted as boardings? I'm guessing total boardings, not revenue boardings, as revenue boardings seem to be where people bought a new ticket. It would be good to know as there were an avg 160,000 passes bought per month in 2009. And a 342,000 daily boarding difference between revenue and total boardings. But if passes are non-revenue boardings, and assuming 2 boardings/day, that only leaves 22,000 for people that board more than 2x/day.

PS: Yes, once my GS comment goes live I know I made a mistake on the diesel costs and said they were 24.5 million, not the actual 42 million. In any case I doubt he will call me on it, as he apparently can't do math(even with a supposed Masters in Chemical engineering).

PPS: The translink annual reports for 2009 including the Statutory report, are treasure troves of info

cheers

[SpikePhanta]

I find the straight and cbc.ca to be filled with those type of people.