Calgary Public Transit II

[MalcolmTucker]

^ Oh, it isn't that they want to do that (I think). They are doing what bureaucracy does best, they are framing an issue.

The natural reaction of most people looking at that would likely be 'why are they duplicating the Centre St tram and the NC LRT, isn't that stupid' which hopefully leads to the answer of ' for only this marginal cost, we can have a Centre St subway, avoid duplication and have better service'.

The bureaucracy can't just go and delete the current NC LRT alignment and replace it with something else, it has been voted on by council, however preliminarily.

In any case, the NC LRT shouldn't service the airport, no matter what its form.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

^ Oh, it isn't that they want to do that (I think). They are doing what bureaucracy does best, they are framing an issue.

The natural reaction of most people looking at that would likely be 'why are they duplicating the Centre St tram and the NC LRT, isn't that stupid' which hopefully leads to the answer of ' for only this marginal cost, we can have a Centre St subway, avoid duplication and have better service'.

The bureaucracy can't just go and delete the current NC LRT alignment and replace it with something else, it has been voted on by council, however preliminarily.

In any case, the NC LRT shouldn't service the airport, no matter what its form.

Fully agree, but do you think Transit Planning is really on board for the Centre Street Subway. I am afraid they are honestly thinking that the NC-LRT will go up Nose Creek and a Tram will go up Centre Street and service the airport. These are bad ideas.

[mersar]

My take is that that presentation was thrown together quickly by someone so CT doesn't look like they're about to get caught with their pants around their ankles in terms of planning on how to handle the Barlow closure. Theres obvious mistakes in it (the NC LRT is shown following something near Beddington, not in the median of Harvest Hills) and somehow the route 100 shifts from using Metis to using 36th Street between now and the future, I'd assume it should go the other way, which just screams to me that it was a rush job just so they have something to show. Duplication of the routes by putting the tram along Centre St makes me at least hopeful that someone at transit planning is pushing for moving the NCLRT to that alignment. Changes like the route 100 do make a lot of sense and this isn't the first plan thats at least alluded to that route, and as a first step its a good one (supposedly thats been worked on for a bit, according to someone on cptdb the route 100 destinations of McKnight and Airport [as well as whitehorn which may mean at one point they considered going that far south] are already programmed into the destination signs on the buses)

[Dado]

Originally Posted by mersar

My take is that that presentation was thrown together quickly by someone so CT doesn't look like they're about to get caught with their pants around their ankles in terms of planning on how to handle the Barlow closure.

Devil's advocate here: maybe they do know what they're doing and are just setting the stage for the future.

Theres obvious mistakes in it (the NC LRT is shown following something near Beddington, not in the median of Harvest Hills)

True, but development is occurring in Symons Valley and the current LRT plans don't serve those areas too well. Perhaps a Nose Creek-Symons Valley line is in the offing, with a North Central line to carry on northwards through Harvest Hills.

and somehow the route 100 shifts from using Metis to using 36th Street between now and the future, I'd assume it should go the other way,

Something has to serve all that future airport sprawl... and won't 36th basically be trashed during runway construction with all the equipment that will be operating there?

which just screams to me that it was a rush job just so they have something to show. Duplication of the routes by putting the tram along Centre St makes me at least hopeful that someone at transit planning is pushing for moving the NCLRT to that alignment.

As above, with my comment on the possibility of a Nose Creek - Symons Valley line, which would essentially be a sort of quasi-commuter rail line to the far north of the city.

A tram line serving Harvest Hills would need far more capacity south of Beddington than north of it, so splitting it between the airport and Harvest Hills at Beddington would make sense. People could also transfer to the Nose Creek line there for the trip downtown, whether they are coming from the airport or Harvest Hills. The trams would then be largely emptied out for service on Centre St.

Changes like the route 100 do make a lot of sense and this isn't the first plan thats at least alluded to that route, and as a first step its a good one (supposedly thats been worked on for a bit, according to someone on cptdb the route 100 destinations of McKnight and Airport [as well as whitehorn which may mean at one point they considered going that far south] are already programmed into the destination signs on the buses)

I will certainly welcome something better than the god-forsaken #57 the next time I visit Calgary. The #57 actually has a reputation beyond Calgary.

The #430 will probably be good for UoCalgary students from elsewhere since they can avoid going downtown, though I don't get the detour down Beddington - why not just stay on Country Hills to Nose Hill Drive?

[TETT2]

Originally Posted by mersar

My take is that that presentation was thrown together quickly by someone so CT doesn't look like they're about to get caught with their pants around their ankles in terms of planning on how to handle the Barlow closure. Theres obvious mistakes in it (the NC LRT is shown following something near Beddington, not in the median of Harvest Hills) and somehow the route 100 shifts from using Metis to using 36th Street between now and the future, I'd assume it should go the other way, which just screams to me that it was a rush job just so they have something to show. Duplication of the routes by putting the tram along Centre St makes me at least hopeful that someone at transit planning is pushing for moving the NCLRT to that alignment. Changes like the route 100 do make a lot of sense and this isn't the first plan thats at least alluded to that route, and as a first step its a good one (supposedly thats been worked on for a bit, according to someone on cptdb the route 100 destinations of McKnight and Airport [as well as whitehorn which may mean at one point they considered going that far south] are already programmed into the destination signs on the buses)

My opinion:
-I don't think anyone in Transit wants the LRT to run up Nose Hill, BUT because it is in the approved plan, how else are they supposed to show it?
-Because of that, I think the tram is there just to show something right now.
-I like Route 100 from the NE line to the Airport, hopefully no stops along the way.
-I dont like trams in any setting unless they have a dedicated ROW *cough beltline cough*

[DarkKeyo]

The tram will never work, nor will a nose creek LRT. I just hope they know that. The first thing I'd point out to them is that the 430 doesn't run midday or weekends, and is thus useless most of the time. It would make a very effective crosstown route, living in the NW I would use it to get to Country Hills and the airport if it ran when I wanted to go there.

430 and 100 need half hour or less frequencies, for all normal service hours, like 57 has now. (there will probably be a few stops on the 100 along the way, but not many since there is nowhere on Metis for it to stop. I'm assuming its future routing on 36 st will be to serve the developments that will be there at that point).

310 is a good idea, why wait until 2012?

And that really is a horrible future map. Neither the NLRT or the high speed rail are anywhere near where they're planned to be. I could make a better map than that.

[Koolfire]

Originally Posted by Dado

Devil's advocate here: maybe they do know what they're doing and are just setting the stage for the future.



True, but development is occurring in Symons Valley and the current LRT plans don't serve those areas too well. Perhaps a Nose Creek-Symons Valley line is in the offing, with a North Central line to carry on northwards through Harvest Hills.



Something has to serve all that future airport sprawl... and won't 36th basically be trashed during runway construction with all the equipment that will be operating there?



As above, with my comment on the possibility of a Nose Creek - Symons Valley line, which would essentially be a sort of quasi-commuter rail line to the far north of the city.

A tram line serving Harvest Hills would need far more capacity south of Beddington than north of it, so splitting it between the airport and Harvest Hills at Beddington would make sense. People could also transfer to the Nose Creek line there for the trip downtown, whether they are coming from the airport or Harvest Hills. The trams would then be largely emptied out for service on Centre St.



I will certainly welcome something better than the god-forsaken #57 the next time I visit Calgary. The #57 actually has a reputation beyond Calgary.

The #430 will probably be good for UoCalgary students from elsewhere since they can avoid going downtown, though I don't get the detour down Beddington - why not just stay on Country Hills to Nose Hill Drive?

I'm with Mersar on this. It looks like they had an intern put this together and intern had to go back to school. The NLRT doesn't go through Beddington on this map but through Harvest hills, Country Hills and Panorama. There is no ROW for it and there is no way they will ever consider buying up properties to make it happen.

My thought was if Country Hills LRT station on the NELRT is open would you not run the 100 from there?


The #430 probably would stop at Sandstone terminal so that people can make transfers. Probably returns to Country Hills on 14th st because it isn't marked going south on 14th St.

[Riise]

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

^ Oh, it isn't that they want to do that (I think). They are doing what bureaucracy does best, they are framing an issue.

The natural reaction of most people looking at that would likely be 'why are they duplicating the Centre St tram and the NC LRT, isn't that stupid' which hopefully leads to the answer of ' for only this marginal cost, we can have a Centre St subway, avoid duplication and have better service'.

The bureaucracy can't just go and delete the current NC LRT alignment and replace it with something else, it has been voted on by council, however preliminarily.

I can see you doing that if you were in charge, but your obviously a smart guy. Although the CT team has been improving, I think this is still a little beyond them.

[MalcolmTucker]

A pretty logical, easy airport access plan from my point of view. You can add in the cross town route to Crowfoot as well, but I don't think it would garner enough riders to survive.

2015
Local Direct Routes to Saddle Ridge and North Pointe, Coach Downtown Shuttle at cost recovery basis


Later: Centre St subway is built
Automated shuttle to Centre St Subway Station (1 track) with provision for station with passing track at the CP line, Coach Downtown Shuttle at cost recovery basis, Local Direct to Saddle Ridge


Later still: HSR to Edmonton
Automated shuttle to Centre St Subway Station (1 track) and a station with passing track at the high speed rail station, 1 track spur from HSR track to terminal (for a downtown 1 seat service), Local Direct to Saddle Ridge


Further in the future I could see an automated shuttle to Saddle Ridge, but I doubt the ridership would ever be there to justify it

[You Need A Thneed]

Martindale station:

By me, last week I think.

[xAnderblaze]

Minus the fact that it would be super handy having a CTrain station right outside your house, it would really 🞵🞵🞵🞵 to live there...

[YYCguys]

I wonder if the prices of the homes along that section of the line, and especially those that are right next to the station, have gone up or gone down.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by YYCguys

I wonder if the prices of the homes along that section of the line, and especially those that are right next to the station, have gone up or gone down.

Home prices generally benefit from access to public transportation, especially rail, but immediate adjacency to a line could hurt. Commercial properties on the other hand....

[Riise]

Originally Posted by fusili

Home prices generally benefit from access to public transportation, especially rail, but immediate adjacency to a line could hurt. Commercial properties on the other hand....

I wonder if type of residential would make a difference. For instance, if the house is being used as a rental property, especially a subdivided property, it would be great for the owners.

[Ferreth]

Originally Posted by You Need A Thneed

Martindale station:

Wow, that pic really shows how the city didn't even think to put at least townhouses up against an LRT station and up the density a little. I mean, seriously, single family home 5ft from an LRT station?

As mentioned, a little commercial as a buffer would be nice too, especially if it generated a bit of traffic to keep the ruffians at bay

[You Need A Thneed]

Originally Posted by Ferreth

Wow, that pic really shows how the city didn't even think to put at least townhouses up against an LRT station and up the density a little. I mean, seriously, single family home 5ft from an LRT station?

As mentioned, a little commercial as a buffer would be nice too, especially if it generated a bit of traffic to keep the ruffians at bay

There's a bunch of townhouses that are right next to the other platform (the outbound platform). The platform seen is the inbound platform.

[DarkKeyo]

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

A pretty logical, easy airport access plan from my point of view. You can add in the cross town route to Crowfoot as well, but I don't think it would garner enough riders to survive.

2015
Local Direct Routes to Saddle Ridge and North Pointe, Coach Downtown Shuttle at cost recovery basis

Later: Centre St subway is built
Automated shuttle to Centre St Subway Station (1 track) with provision for station with passing track at the CP line, Coach Downtown Shuttle at cost recovery basis, Local Direct to Saddle Ridge

Later still: HSR to Edmonton
Automated shuttle to Centre St Subway Station (1 track) and a station with passing track at the high speed rail station, 1 track spur from HSR track to terminal (for a downtown 1 seat service), Local Direct to Saddle Ridge

Further in the future I could see an automated shuttle to Saddle Ridge, but I doubt the ridership would ever be there to justify it

I agree with your ideas here, and good job on the maps. Too bad you aren't in charge of the transit planning department...

I do, however, think that the crosstown route to Crowfoot is justified. If we're adding easy access from the NE with the tunnel/route 100, from the south with that coach downtown shuttle, Centre St subway, and eventually HSR, from the North with the automated shuttle... why leave out the NW? The 430 now would get ridership if it actually had frequency, and ran normal hours.

On another topic, good to see Martindale station coming along, although I still resent a bit that they'd spend money on a station surrounded by single family homes and not on Northland station, which has higher density, TOD opportunity at the mall, the mall itself, several schools, and a recreation centre. I know I post about that a lot, but I would use that station just that much.

[mersar]

Series 8 LRV's 2301-2307 have arrived as of today. 2301 and 2302 have been painted and are being put through testing, so it won't be long hopefully before the first consist goes into service, maybe a few more weeks.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by You Need A Thneed

Martindale station:

By me, last week I think.

Originally Posted by xAnderblaze

Minus the fact that it would be super handy having a CTrain station right outside your house, it would really 🞵🞵🞵🞵 to live there...

It could be worse: you could have a busway running past your house...


Southwest Transitway extension, Ottawa (Barrhaven), future Highbury Park overpass. Photo mine.

Since the busway is in a dip here to go under the bridge, the buses will be travelling at full speed and power to climb out on either side (the other way to look at it is the bridge exists so buses won't have to slow down, but either way they're at full speed and power).

The secondary retaining wall beneath the bridge is to carry a pathway under the road.

[reflexzero]

Originally Posted by You Need A Thneed

Martindale station:

By me, last week I think.

Notice the hooded ruffian, on his way to start a fire in a garbage can... oh wait that's not Sunalta.

joking aside, I don't know how safe I would feel with a place for persons to congregate right beside my house, as generally people are pigs or thieves.