Port Mann/Highway 1 Improvements | Completed

[PaperTiger]

Originally Posted by Zassk

I'm torn, because I love the high design speed of the Coquihalla, but on the other hand, if it had been built to more modest specifications, the province could probably have afforded to build twice as much freeway in the 25 years since. Remember that the next time you are stuck on those awful 2-lane stretches on either side of Salmon Arm...

Or about 10% more...

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

Still part of Gateway in eastern BC - nothin' like the sight of freshly paved 4-lane expressway standard highway along the old Kicking Horse Canyon goat trail:







Source: http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/kickinghorse/index.htm

nice pictures - what's the design speed of that location?

BTW. I noticed the the MoT seems to enjoy widening in the easy sections, while leaving the complicated sections alone. Perfect example is Highway 3 between Hope and Princeton. It's a wide 4 lane highway, and then all of a sudden turns into a narrow tight 2 lane highway for a few km, and then back up to 4 lanes.

Not that there's an operational problem. Just found it interesting.

[wrenegade]

It would have cost a whole hell of a lot more to add 20km/h to the design speed of the Sea to Sky. I refuse to believe it is 80km/h the whole way from HSB to Squamish, there are a number of corners Where I'm sure it must be 60.

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

nice pictures - what's the design speed of that location?

Kicking Horse Canyon will have a design speed of 100 km/hr when completed in another 5 - 10 years (?). It's curvlinear akin to Glenwood Canyon along I-70 in Colorado, which is also a very cool drive (posted at 50 mph - 80 km/hr).

BTW. I noticed the the MoT seems to enjoy widening in the easy sections, while leaving the complicated sections alone. Perfect example is Highway 3 between Hope and Princeton. It's a wide 4 lane highway, and then all of a sudden turns into a narrow tight 2 lane highway for a few km, and then back up to 4 lanes.

OTOH, Hwy 1 along the KHC section is one of the toughest along the corridor.

Those 4 lane sections along Hwy 3 with paved median (Hope Slide area, Manning Park, and west of Keremeos) were all constructed during the mid/late 1970's prior to the Coquihalla being announced. Nothing has been built between Hope/Princeton and Osoyoos/Kaleden since with the exception of bridge replacements.

The tougher Whipsaw Creek area west of Princeton (uphill/downhill/30 km/hr advisory curves/circa 1949 bridges, etc.) has long been identified as a priority upgrade area along Hwy 3 but don't expect to see same for a long time.

BTW, Princeton to Osoyoos/Kaleden was posted at 80 km/hr until circa 1999, which resulted in alot of speed traps esp. in the Princeton and Keremeos areas. Ever since the posted limit was increased to 100 km/hr it has been clear uninterrupted sailing.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by awvan

It would have cost a whole hell of a lot more to add 20km/h to the design speed of the Sea to Sky. I refuse to believe it is 80km/h the whole way from HSB to Squamish, there are a number of corners Where I'm sure it must be 60.

I was thinking the same thing. Sure, some alignments may be 10%, but increasing the design speed of the s2s would've required a lot of tunneling.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

Planning for 130 km/h isn't that much more expensive if you're dealing with relatively flat/rolling topography.

You'd be surprised. In the last 10 to 15 years, design standards have changed significantly, the concept of the clear zone has become more noted, and everything has bigger allowances.

For example, in Alberta, all bridges and associated road hardware (barriers, sign structures, etc) have to give more empty space from the edge of the road in case a car leaves a road. This clear distance does not go up with design speed in a linear fashion, so the price goes up almost exponentially when you get to the higher end speeds. And of course, if you don't already own the land, a higher design speed will eat up so much land you need to purchase that it can be prohibitively expensive.

You can bet that in the lower mainland they have done cost versus time savings for these roads when doing the upgrades. It might not be worth the money needed to do a 120km/h design speed versus a 100km/h design speed with today's standards.

[The_Henry_Man]

Originally Posted by Spoolmak

Nothing in BC would be a safe design speed of 150 even if it was possible. And only a few 130km/h design speed just because there are way too many turns and curves in the highways. And especially since the highways are always jampacked with newbies from alberta, it makes the highways even more dangerous

I have to disagree with you on that one. It is the Alberta drivers who actually knows how to drive on a highway, even at high speed. They give space between cars. OTOH, BC drivers are probably the worst in all provinces/states that I've driven in so far (BC, AB, SK, MB, WA, ND, MN, WI and IL). MB drives comes in close 2nd.

[The_Henry_Man]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

Still part of Gateway in eastern BC - nothin' like the sight of freshly paved 4-lane expressway standard highway along the old Kicking Horse Canyon goat trail:







Source: http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/kickinghorse/index.htm

I love that new section. An absolute blast to drive. I hope they 4 lane it (with 100-110km/h limit) all the way from Kamloops to Kicking Horse Pass soon. The 4-laning construction is already in great progress from Hwy 1/AB-93 to Banff. That section is going to be a hell of a drive when it's finished (probably end of 2011). I'm so confused why it's still just 90km/h limit on 4-lane Hwy in Federal Park lands. That section should definitely be 110-120km/h limit (heck, I always drive 120-130 there anyway).

[sacrifice333]

Originally Posted by The_Henry_Man

I love that new section. An absolute blast to drive. I hope they 4 lane it (with 100-110km/h limit) all the way from Kamloops to Kicking Horse Pass soon. The 4-laning construction is already in great progress from Hwy 1/AB-93 to Banff. That section is going to be a hell of a drive when it's finished (probably end of 2011). I'm so confused why it's still just 90km/h limit on 4-lane Hwy in Federal Park lands. That section should definitely be 110-120km/h limit (heck, I always drive 120-130 there anyway).

Probably still 90km/h because it's not fenced... and there's animals in parkland.

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Improvements to the Lion's Gate weren't tolled. To me, this bridge is the most tollable bridge in the GVRD. Direct access to Stanley Park AND downtown??? Should be tolled.

That was a safety improvement - they really didn't add any more lanes, and aside from that it probably wasn't any more expensive.

[cairnstone]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

That was a safety improvement - they really didn't add any more lanes, and aside from that it probably wasn't any more expensive.

Lanes where not added do to no right away in Vancouver. I worked on the Lions gate project and a couple of times when working in the causeway we had to shut the site down do to protesters. The parks board at the time only allowed a few trees to be removed for safety. And when the trees were cut down you had the radical fringe protesting.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by cairnstone

Lanes where not added do to no right away in Vancouver. I worked on the Lions gate project and a couple of times when working in the causeway we had to shut the site down do to protesters. The parks board at the time only allowed a few trees to be removed for safety. And when the trees were cut down you had the radical fringe protesting.

I think the only way new lanes would be built into Vancouver is if they were built as a 6-lane tunnel (+ two HOV + 2 rail) around the Ballantyne Pier connecting with Clark east of the Peninsula. The Lion's Gate would also be repurposed as a pedestrian/bike/transit bridge.

I would imagine if that happened, it would become 2 wide lanes again, thus increasing the area that could be used for dedicated bike lanes and pedestrians.

[red-paladin]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

I think the only way new lanes would be built into Vancouver is if they were built as a 6-lane tunnel (+ two HOV + 2 rail) around the Ballantyne Pier connecting with Clark east of the Peninsula. The Lion's Gate would also be repurposed as a pedestrian/bike/transit bridge.

I would imagine if that happened, it would become 2 wide lanes again, thus increasing the area that could be used for dedicated bike lanes and pedestrians.

I don't think they could remove the car lanes on the bridge unless they built a replacement right there. There is no way those rich people in west van would drive all the way to a tunnel at main/clark that they had to pay a toll to get through, and have lrt or whatever going across the bridge instead of cars.

[twoNeurons]

No one's forcing them to leave West Vancouver. Doesn't it have everything they need? Unless they need something after midnight.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

No one's forcing them to leave West Vancouver. Doesn't it have everything they need? Unless they need something after midnight.

More like 6pm.

People on the western North Shore would riot. When I had a car and lived up Capilano road, I felt like just as much a "neighbour" of downtown as people in the west end do.

Plus now as a Lower Lonsdale resident I can't imagine all that traffic headed to my hood. It's a residential area with one lane roads that are already clogged. We need an additional crossing, not two moved closer together.

I still can't believe we didn't get more lanes when Lions Gate was re-done. I'd gladly pay a toll for that.

[wrenegade]

Really, all we need is one more lane. I have no problem waiting 5 mins or so, but every — afternoon its' 20-25 minutes to get across that — bridge from the North Shore side. One extra lane wouldn't require any additional infrastructure on either end of the bridge/causeway and technically wouldn't increase the number of lanes going into the CoV. If the lanes were divided then hopefully then the speed limit could be increased to 70-80km/h on the bridge deck/causeway. That plus better que jumper lanes (which I understand are part of the current construction) would make a world of difference for NS residents.

[Smooth]

Has anyone figured out what they're doing to the Marine Dr overpass on the north end of the Lions Gate Bridge? I'm hoping that they're going to do a rebuild but I'm afraid that it's just another re-surfacing job.

I agree with awvan, in the afternoon rush-hour the bridge traffic doesn't improve until about 7pm. Trying to get into town around that time is one of the only times I hate having a standard car.

EDIT: Sorry mods about this whole whole Lions Gate discussion. Any way we can move it to another thread?

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by Pinion

When I had a car and lived up Capilano road, I felt like just as much a "neighbour" of downtown as people in the west end do.

Well, great, but at what cost to us all? Does the North Shore really need this "neighbourhood connector"? I'm pretty conflicted about this.

It's Stanley Park and the West End that pay, in terms of the impact from conveniencing a few 10's of thousands of people on the other side.

I know there was an idea in the 90's to build a tunnel across from Coal Harbour just off the eastern tip of Stanley Park, but maybe we don't want this traffic entering the West End in the first place.

IMO, it's time to reconsider the location of this crossing. First Narrows would be a great place for a transit crossing, but it's an awful place for a car crossing.

[SpikePhanta]

Originally Posted by Zegby

My friend just got back from Alberta. Said the drivers there can't drive worth a damn. Worst he's ever seen. He also said Albertans are a bunch of snobs that won't associate with anyone not working on the rigs and sending a fat paycheck home every month but thats beside the point.

I hate the ones in West Edmonton mall.
So rude in the waterpark, they mostly said "stuff" after saying several times that I was from Vancouver, I just decided to pretend not to speak english and that I was from Montreal. Then they started leaving me alone.

Also how soft is the land around the first narrows?

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by The_Henry_Man

I have to disagree with you on that one. It is the Alberta drivers who actually knows how to drive on a highway, even at high speed. They give space between cars. OTOH, BC drivers are probably the worst in all provinces/states that I've driven in so far (BC, AB, SK, MB, WA, ND, MN, WI and IL). MB drives comes in close 2nd.

Do you know how many times I've seen somone with Alberta or Sask plates driving in BC. Driving so slow because they feel like they are going to — their pants over the 200-500 foot drop off beside them.

Keeping a safe distance is a good thing. But driving 40-50 km/h in a 80-90 km/h zone is bad. Especially when they are creating a line up of over 100 vehicles behind them.