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  #3001  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2010, 5:43 AM
Canada_Line Canada_Line is offline
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Originally Posted by trofirhen View Post
Looking carefully, one can see that this plan is dated. First of all, the expansion of Pier C is not included.

Secondly, there seems an assumption that the final piece of the West Chevron - not yet built - is a "fait accompli."

Nevertheless, having a new transborder terminal would be great, but I think the state of delapidated Pier B needs to be addressed first.

A YVR source said there are plans in store for Pier B, but would not release any details as yet. I'd like to know what those plans are. Anybody have an idea?
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Originally Posted by Gordon View Post
The completion of the West Chevron will be the next expansion because the current building was built to be expanded easily and the necessary ground inprovements have been done.

I would think the Peir B project would be significant rehabilitation of the current structure as opposed to a re-build.
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Originally Posted by trofirhen View Post
That it will definitely be built, sooner or later. In other words, it's not still being considered only a possibility. It's just a matter of when, not if. (According to the plan)
Thanks for these. This seemed to be the case but I couldn't find anything in the masterplan and wondered if YVR just chose not to publicize the plans.

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the necessary ground inprovements have been done.
How did you know this?

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Originally Posted by deasine View Post
The plan isn't dated. It's just the project was broken up into phases and that the first phase was only building up to Gate D64: just the curved end of the terminal isn't completed. There's no need to expand as of yet, but if there are more airlines coming in, then an expansion will be needed. From what I know, Transat is hoping to continue expanding their Vancouver-European market and introduce Vancouver-Asia (probably to Shanghai or Tokyo). That being said, I can't see how Transat can do that with their current business model. I know China Southern [SkyTeam] is also interested in flying into YVR.

Pier B would be expanded and re-renovated (keeping the bare bones of the structure) similar to what has been done at Pier C.
YVR claims that the recent nine-gate expansion was itself a two phase expansion so the lack of a phase 3 in all documents confused me.

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but the current expansion is considered phase I while a curved end would be the proposed phase II?

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Originally Posted by trofirhen View Post

(Great if Pier B gets a complete nose-job!! On that plan, however, Pier C was marked in as it used to be; without the expansion, that's all.)
The island concourse of the transborder terminal that currently exists also isn't on the map. Is it going to be removed or is the map only meant to give an abstract idea, not being a comprehensive portrayal of YVR's future plans?
     
     
  #3002  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2010, 12:54 AM
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Haneda flights?

I was just looking at the OAG scheds and the recently announced HND flight mysteriously disappears on the 27 March, the same day the NRT flight reverts back to a 77W.

Does this mean that the HND flight is only temporary (like only 2 months)? The AC press release alluded that this appeared to be a permanent year-round service?
     
     
  #3003  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2010, 2:06 AM
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Originally Posted by deasine View Post
From what I know, Transat is hoping to continue expanding their Vancouver-European market and introduce Vancouver-Asia (probably to Shanghai or Tokyo). That being said, I can't see how Transat can do that with their current business model. I know China Southern [SkyTeam] is also interested in flying into YVR.
Transat has talked about Asia for many years. They have dabbled in that market before, fulfilling inbound charters from various points in Japan to Western Canada. No seats were sold ex-Canada to Japan, however.

Transat does sell most of it's European seats as scheduled product, as well as sells allotments to the tour operators. Scheduled doesn't mean they fly every day. It just means that AIR TRANSAT itself has the capability to sell its own seats. Conversely, a charter flight is one where tour operators hold the risk for filling the seats.

Their business model has always been one to ensure profitability. Even if they were to enter the Asian market from both sides of the Pacific, it could be simply as a charter (as previously done ex-Japan), but more likely would fit a model like they have done with Europe (selling as scheduled flights as well as allotments to tour operators, but having a limited schedule, like one flight a week to whichever destinations they would fly).
     
     
  #3004  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2010, 5:42 AM
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@ Canada_Line: See this picture from globalairphotos.com:



If you look just above the center-left of the photo (between the end of the chevron and the de-icing bays), you can see where the ground has already been preloaded for future construction. You can even get an idea of the dimensions of what the expansion will look like.
     
     
  #3005  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2010, 3:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie View Post
I was just looking at the OAG scheds and the recently announced HND flight mysteriously disappears on the 27 March, the same day the NRT flight reverts back to a 77W.

Does this mean that the HND flight is only temporary (like only 2 months)? The AC press release alluded that this appeared to be a permanent year-round service?
They are likely only selling seats until the 27th of March to start at the moment. They will reevaluate, based on how many tickets they sell. This is quite common. Because Haneda will likely cost more to fly into, there will probably be more business travellers, who tend not to book their flights that far in advance anyway.

That's my guess, at least.
     
     
  #3006  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2010, 8:07 PM
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north east terminal expansion looks massive, wonder how long would this one take, till 2020?
     
     
  #3007  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2010, 9:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twoNeurons View Post
They are likely only selling seats until the 27th of March to start at the moment. They will reevaluate, based on how many tickets they sell. This is quite common. Because Haneda will likely cost more to fly into, there will probably be more business travellers, who tend not to book their flights that far in advance anyway.

That's my guess, at least.
Maybe it was a glitch. Now showing up again.

Showing daily to NRT and daily to HND again. After 27 March NRT is sched to go back to daily 77W, and daily 763 to HND.

Also, just noticed AC is going daily YVR-PVG for the winter scheds (up from 5 / week). PEK still showing 5 / week.

AC is definitely restoring a lot of the lost capacity from YVR-Asia.

Last edited by Johnny Aussie; Aug 28, 2010 at 5:37 AM.
     
     
  #3008  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2010, 10:18 PM
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now they need to restore YVR-KIX.
     
     
  #3009  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2010, 10:20 PM
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That won't happen until KIX reduces landing fees, which isn't likely to happen. Many airlines have cut back due to the exorbitant landing fees, which has made it a bit of a white elephant. They are about the same as NRT, and usually it is not the same size of aircraft landing at KIX (767 would have just over half the capacity of 777). YVR - HND is pretty obviously a good replacement for YVR - KIX, I suppose, as HND offers dozens of daily flights to Osaka, and everywhere else in Japan.

Of course the flight times aren't the most optimal for a connection to... anywhere. I'm sure over the years that could change. Maybe.
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  #3010  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2010, 2:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Yume-sama View Post
That won't happen until KIX reduces landing fees, which isn't likely to happen. Many airlines have cut back due to the exorbitant landing fees, which has made it a bit of a white elephant. They are about the same as NRT, and usually it is not the same size of aircraft landing at KIX (767 would have just over half the capacity of 777). YVR - HND is pretty obviously a good replacement for YVR - KIX, I suppose, as HND offers dozens of daily flights to Osaka, and everywhere else in Japan.

Of course the flight times aren't the most optimal for a connection to... anywhere. I'm sure over the years that could change. Maybe.
Quote:
Low-cost airlines fuel competition
ANA, JAL must share skies with no-frills rivals

By KAZUAKI NAGATA
Staff writer

Japan's tightly regulated skies have been seeing some changes in recent years, with a wave of low-cost carriers from Asia entering the market and domestic budget airlines rising to intensify the competition.

Observers are looking carefully at the impact on the Japanese airline industry, especially what it means for All Nippon Airways Co. and Japan Airlines Corp.

When JAL filed for protection from its creditors in January, transport minister Seiji Maehara said he would take a close look at whether Japan will need two megacarriers in the future, when competition will only grow more intense.

Experts are split on the degree of the low-cost carriers' impact on ANA and JAL, but pretty much all agree the best outcome for consumers would be that both survive and maintain a healthy competition.

"I think the impact is quite big," said Hajime Tozaki, an economics professor at Waseda University and former JAL employee. "Under the ongoing deflation, (JAL and ANA) will lose customers to budget carriers and will be forced to keep carrying out unhealthy cost-cutting."

Compared with Japanese airlines, which spend more on employment and have to pay expensive aviation-related taxes and public dues such as airport fees and fuel taxes, budget Asian carriers are almost free of regulation and have lower employment costs, Tozaki explained.

Low-cost carriers' fares can be 20 to 70 percent less than those of major airlines. The tickets can be offered at reasonable prices because their operational focus is on carrying customers place to place for short to midrange distances.

For instance, budget airlines commonly cut in-flight meals and charge extra for checked baggage. Also, to maximize passenger numbers, seating configurations are often as cramped as possible.

"The cost structure is fundamentally different (from Japanese airlines)," Tozaki said.

But considering that budget airlines don't focus on luxury services, Makoto Murayama, a senior analyst at Nomura Securities, said their primary customers differ from those who fly Japan's big carriers, so the direct impact on ANA and JAL is subtle.

Japan's airline market is notoriously conservative due to tight regulations, including strict safety guidelines and restrictions on foreign investment. The bar was set too high for new firms to enter the market, resulting in limited competition.

The recent entry of no-frills carriers from Asia is partly due to the need of struggling airports to attract more fliers.

For instance, Kansai International Airport, which relies on government subsidies, is especially active in inviting budget airlines. Currently, five such carriers — Air Busan, Jetstar, Jetstar Asia, Jeju Air and Cebu Pacific Air — provide regular flights to and from Kansai.

Known for its expensive landing fees and inconvenient location, Kansai made a bold move last fall to make the landing fee practically nonexistent for carriers opening new international routes through the end of March 2011.


This fiscal year has seen Air Busan and Jetstar Asia start flights to the airport.

Ibaraki Airport, which opened in March, invited in Spring Airlines, a Shanghai-based budget carrier. It started flights late last month.

The Chinese airline recently announced it was offering ¥4,000 one-way tickets between Ibaraki and Shanghai Pudong International Airport.

Meanwhile, Skymark Airlines Inc., a Japanese no-frills carrier that has survived in the tough competition, is looking to grow.

Established in 1996 and having experienced several ups and downs, Skymark is opening 11 new routes this fiscal year, more than double its previous total, to finally rise as a solid third force in the domestic industry.

Airfares were a bit too expensive, and "we thought if we calculate and make efforts, this could be a business, so we've been focusing on forging a low-price model," said Masakazu Arimori, Skymark's chief financial officer.

Arimori explained that the company drafted a sound management plan and has been following that since 2005, which included flying only Boeing 737-800s.

"By unifying the plane under our own specifications and configuration, it facilitates savings, having the same seats and same parts," said Arimori, adding pilots and mechanics can work more efficiently if they deal only with one model.

The unification was completed last September.

Other cost-saving efforts include multitasking by employees, said Arimori, citing as an example that some mechanics are also members of the firm's corporate planning team.

But as ANA plans to establish its own budget airline, and JAL reportedly planning a similar move, the competition among domestic no-frills carriers looks to intensify.

Yet Arimori said Skymark still has an advantage in terms of low operating costs. Skymark's cost to move one seat 1 km has decreased to some ¥8, but the rate for JAL and ANA is ¥13 to ¥15, he said.

The rise of budget airlines in the Japanese market may be good for consumers, but it is also to their benefit if ANA and JAL survive and continue healthy competition, experts said.

"From the consumers' point of view, it is not good that one company dominates the market," said Nomura's Murayama. But at the same time, he said, if thinking just about surviving the competition, it would be more stable to merge as one.

Tozaki of Waseda University said it is still possible that both ANA and JAL can survive. After JAL filed for bankruptcy and closed some routes, fares on those routes increased, he said.

"Competition is important," he said.

While internal reform efforts by the megacarriers are necessary, Tozaki also said the government should ease regulations, such as the cap on foreign investment, to absorb knowhow from outside, so they can be more competitive.
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nb20100828a1.html
     
     
  #3011  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2010, 2:23 AM
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Well, then it could happen. If they consider Air Canada a budget international carrier.

I think if AC had gotten their 787's when planned, the route may still be ongoing.

Of course, it's also likely that the route wasn't making any money. Or they'd probably still be doing it.
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  #3012  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2010, 3:19 PM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
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I was thinking the same thing... that KIX had cut their landing fees dramatically.

The problem with KIX, though, is Itami (Osaka Int'l) was supposed to close. However, it's in a more convenient location for Kobe and Kyoto. So, Itami gets most of the domestic routes. In addition, to the frustration of Osaka, Kobe built their own airport. There's talk of bringing all three airports under one management group, but right now, the focus is on making Haneda a 24-hour hub and then fixing the mess of airports in Osaka.

If I remember correctly, KIX was supposed to be built closer, but if you think NIMBYs HERE are strong... NIMBYs in Japan have power (Check out the farm in the middle of Narita on Google Earth). Saying that, KIX has lots of transportation options to get to the airport.

We won't see a problem like this in Vancouver, because YVR and YXX are well placed to serve their population.
     
     
  #3013  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2010, 5:52 PM
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lol well at least the Japanese NIMBY's have realistic family ties that go back hundreds of years to their piece of land. They have stopped any further development at Narita, and stopped a proposed bullet train line from Tokyo - Narita. In a Country as small land-wise as Japan, it does make sense to re-claim land like KIX has done, and HND is doing with their new runway. However, it is prohibitively expensive, as is a lot of Japanese infrastructure, which has Japan in a little bit of a financial pickle.

And you don't know stubborn until you know an old Japanese man / woman. They'll purposely live till 112 so you NEVER get your way.
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  #3014  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2010, 6:07 PM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
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Originally Posted by Yume-sama View Post
And you don't know stubborn until you know an old Japanese man / woman. They'll purposely live till 112 so you NEVER get your way.
Oh man... that's hilarious. Made me laugh! I can imagine it.

Ganbare! Ganbare! Ganbare! 111, one more year... Ganbare! Ganbare! Ganbare!
     
     
  #3015  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2010, 9:42 PM
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AC to launch daily MEX

Goodbye Mexicana and Hello Air Canada.

Effective 6 Nov Sat/Sun service only.
Effective 1 Dec Daily service.

http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=370
     
     
  #3016  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2010, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yume-sama View Post
lol well at least the Japanese NIMBY's have realistic family ties that go back hundreds of years to their piece of land. They have stopped any further development at Narita, and stopped a proposed bullet train line from Tokyo - Narita. In a Country as small land-wise as Japan, it does make sense to re-claim land like KIX has done, and HND is doing with their new runway. However, it is prohibitively expensive, as is a lot of Japanese infrastructure, which has Japan in a little bit of a financial pickle.

And you don't know stubborn until you know an old Japanese man / woman. They'll purposely live till 112 so you NEVER get your way.
That old couple was holding things up at Narita the year I lived in Tokyo .... a huge, two-terminal international airport with only ONE runway. It really messed things up, but I have to take off my hat to the couple for their courage not to blink, and to stare down the authorities !!
     
     
  #3017  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2010, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by vansky View Post
north east terminal expansion looks massive, wonder how long would this one take, till 2020?
Probably ... and that's being optimistic. But it will be great when it's built.
     
     
  #3018  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2010, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by trofirhen View Post
Probably ... and that's being optimistic. But it will be great when it's built.
Will YVR require a 3rd runway by the time the NE Terminal expansion comes around? Or the two they currently have plus the aircraft overpass over Grant McConachie Way? Anyone know?
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  #3019  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2010, 10:29 PM
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The North East Terminal will not be be needed for quite a few years, same for the 3rd runway. currnetly only roughly 2% of total aircraft movements are North Runway departures so there is still significant runway capacity before it is needed. ( dito for termonal capacity)Planning should continue on both projects so they are shovel ready when needed.

The suns website had an article about JAL discussing the significant fleet & route shrinkage. 1 in 8 overseas routes are planned to be cut.
     
     
  #3020  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2010, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie View Post
Goodbye Mexicana and Hello Air Canada.

Effective 6 Nov Sat/Sun service only.
Effective 1 Dec Daily service.

http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=370
Ding! I guess I called it right.
     
     
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