[Halifax] The Jade & Green Lantern (1595 Barrington) | Completed

[Jonovision]

Nothing yet Wordly.

[worldlyhaligonian]

That's ok... I'm sure they will pop up when this goes to council next.

[someone123]

I seem to recall it was something like 17, but I could be wrong. There were also changes to the interior (saving the old mezzanine) and a rooftop garden.

I could see this being a very nice development.

[worldlyhaligonian]

17 is a great number!

Its kind of rediculous when we have elected officials "warning" developers, as if they are doing something bad by proposing to literally develop our city.

I feel like a parent who's kid won't eat... doing the whole there are starving kids in other countries routine.

There are cities that would kill for half the proposals we get in Halifax. Its time we smarten up and respect developers and the business community.

[someone123]

I just wonder why we need 23 councillors voting 5 times for one development...

[Jonovision]

Halifax highrises clear big hurdle


By MICHAEL LIGHTSTONE

City Hall Reporter

Halifax city hall this week clear ed the way for two proposed highrise developments in the heart of a downtown heritage conservation district.

Regional council voted to amend municipal legislation that would allow developers to build towers on Barrington Street where the low-rise Roy Building and Discovery Centre now stand.

The science centre is to re main at its location; the Roy Building will be demolished.

The Roy structure is the older of the two buildings — it dates to the late 19th century — but isn’t a registered heritage prop erty.

Both buildings were the sub ject of “grandfathered" devel opment applications and affect ed by a municipal staff error in drafting the heritage conserva tion district plan and bylaw.

“The oversight for the two . . . applications within the Barring ton Street heritage conservation district must be resolved prior to the two projects advancing for council’s consideration," says a city staff report from June.

Council’s decision was made Tuesday night following a public hearing on changes to the downtown Halifax municipal planning strategy and heritage conservation district plan.

It came after several heritage advocates told the politicians that constructing tall buildings in a heritage area with a low level streetscape makes no sense.

Council heard the proposed projects will harm the historical value of the commercial neigh bourhood.

But, in the end, councillors determined the issue for them was one of “fairness."

They didn’t want to deny business operators an opportu nity to proceed with their devel opment applications, an exer cise initiated prior to the city’s HRM by Design plan adopted years ago.

The two sites were among four downtown-area projects grandfathered by city hall but the only ones within the heri tage conservation zone.

Wayne Anstey, Halifax Re gional Municipality’s acting chief administrative officer, said Wednesday the four were meant to proceed through the city’s old land-use planning rules.

“So staff brought forward some (legislative) amendments, but they just didn’t realize at the time that an amendment to the heritage bylaw would be re quired," as well, for the two Barrington Street properties.

Anstey said each project must still be subject to a public hear ing before regional council votes on the developments.

([email protected])

[eastcoastal]

The last renderings I saw of this proposal, they had "rebuilt" the Roy Building Facade. In my opinion, if they are not going to save the existing building, what gets erected shouldn't mimic what used to be there. Build something nice and contemporary that supports an active streetlife.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

The last renderings I saw of this proposal, they had "rebuilt" the Roy Building Facade. In my opinion, if they are not going to save the existing building, what gets erected shouldn't mimic what used to be there. Build something nice and contemporary that supports an active streetlife.

Unfortunately that is what has to be done in this town to appease the heritage obstructionists and get a positive recommendation from HRM staff thanks to the absurd language in the MPS that states that buildings must be compatible with the surrounding structures (or words to that effect). I agree that it is ridiculous.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Unfortunately that is what has to be done in this town to appease the heritage obstructionists and get a positive recommendation from HRM staff thanks to the absurd language in the MPS that states that buildings must be compatible with the surrounding structures (or words to that effect). I agree that it is ridiculous.

For me; I actually kinda like the building. I think the design, with the original building, is really interesting.

I guess my perspective would be that, even though the building isn't a registered heritage property - I probably would've fought to keep it. For me; it's just been there for a long time - it forms part of the character of the street. In growing up in the city; I remember that building and the first time I went to the discovery centre - so call it sentimental; but I'd like to see it stay.

But I definately agree that the language of the MPS is really quirky. Granted some of the policy documents we have out here in Calgary are not much better. I've tried to read our MDP (our version of a regional plan) and I've been through it 4 times and there are a lot of "?" stickies in my version all over the place lol.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

For me; I actually kinda like the building. I think the design, with the original building, is really interesting.

Except that it's not the original building anymore. It's a complete fabrication from what I understand.

The ideal situation here would be to keep the original building, and renovate it sensibly.

I have to agree with the Heritage wingnuts - in order for Barrington Street to read as a Heritage Conservation District, I think it makes sense to limit height (don't stone me). However, if new structures are to be built, I think it's ridiculous to recreate an historic structure (even if it's not registered, it's still heritage) rather than build something current and of good design.

[sdm]

In a perfect world, and well we certainly here in Halifax are far from that, i would perfer to see the Roy Building maintained in its current form and converted to loft apartments. At least then we would have people living in the downtown to help sustain retail past 5pm.

[terrynorthend]

I'm confused. Are you guys talking about the Roy building, or the Discovery Centre building?

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by terrynorthend

I'm confused. Are you guys talking about the Roy building, or the Discovery Centre building?

yeah I think the two are getting mixed here.

The Roy building is the one where they are "re-building" the facade to mimic the old one (which will be demolished), versus in the Discovery Centre one, they are keeping the podium, and basically building on top.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

Except that it's not the original building anymore. It's a complete fabrication from what I understand.

The ideal situation here would be to keep the original building, and renovate it sensibly.

I have to agree with the Heritage wingnuts - in order for Barrington Street to read as a Heritage Conservation District, I think it makes sense to limit height (don't stone me). However, if new structures are to be built, I think it's ridiculous to recreate an historic structure (even if it's not registered, it's still heritage) rather than build something current and of good design.

I had to read ahead; but it appears the discovery centre is staying as original; so I'm quite happy with that.

As to the Roy Building - I think keeping the original fascade and rebuilding it can be a reasonable compromise if the interior of the building can't be salvaged to meet code.

The Bow here in Calgary took down an old historic hotel brick by brick and stored them, windows and everything in several buildings all over the city - they did that in order to excovate the huge pit that has become their underground parking (7 stories down). The parking went from the old hotel site; under 6 Avenue (which had to be removed for a year) and onto the actual Bow tower site. Now that they've built the parkade and the road has been returned - they are doing the tower first. But a condition of their approval was to put back the historic building - perhaps that's how the Roy Building will be done? And if not; it's a reasonable suggestion.

[someone123]

I like the Roy Building but it is just a brick facade that was done in stages. Ideally I agree that it would be residential with more infill on other sites.

I don't think that height is incompatible with a heritage district. Floors 1-4 are much more important than floors 5-30. The Discovery Centre building if done well will not be immediately jarring or even that noticeable. The lower facade will be restored so I could see the overall effect being greatly improved even from a heritage perspective. Adaptive reuse is far, far better than stagnation. Maybe it would be nice if all of the good old buildings were perfectly preserved but nobody is coming forward to pay for it so it's a red herring.

[halifaxboyns]

I've always believed that heritage buildings and modern designs (towers) can integrate provided that the tower utilizes design aspects of the older heritage building. That can range from the same materials, colours, window designs and accent features.

The brewery tower for example uses some of these ideas and will fit well with the brewery market.

I think that you can have the Roy Building and a modern tower above and it can work quite well; regardless of how tall you make it or whether it's office or residential. Although personally, given that you are quite close to where the main office buildings are in downtown (with the exception of Maritime Centre); I'd rather see the Roy Building go as offices. It works better with Founder's Square as well. I'd rather see the Discovery centre go residential; given twisted sisters has a residential component and the building with starbucks across the street is apartments.

That being said; this is an example of a hotel development in Calgary that incorporated heritage design and was done in a heritage district. This is the Hyatt Hotel on Centre Street and 8 Avenue. The best shot I could find was from streetview; but the small older heritage buildings on 8 Avenue form part of the elaborate lobby, restaurant, bar and convention centre access. When you walk into that area the lobby is stunning; I think google images has some photos if you put in Hyatt Calgary. But this (IMO) is an example of a heritage development that has a tower but works well - the colour scheme mimics the heritage buildings, plus some of the window design and architectural features are similar (you can't see it that well in the streetview image though).

Hyatt Calgary on Streetview

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by sdm

In a perfect world, and well we certainly here in Halifax are far from that, i would perfer to see the Roy Building maintained in its current form and converted to loft apartments. At least then we would have people living in the downtown to help sustain retail past 5pm.

That is what is being done down the street at the Green Lantern Building. I think that will be a test to see if the concept catches on. It is a different kind of lifestyle in that there will be no parking, so no vehicle owners are likely unless they can find something nearby.

[someone123]

MetroPark is a block away. I think the setup is actually pretty good. It is slightly less convenient to have to go across the street but nicer not to shoehorn parking in everywhere.

I expect that the Green Lantern will be very successful.

[Dmajackson]

Halifax Regional Municipality Ready to Consider Development Proposals in Barrington Street Heritage Conservation District

(Thursday, Feb. 3, 2011) - Two longstanding development proposals for
Barrington Street will be considered through a development application
process that predates HRMByDesign provisions.

Halifax Regional Municipality has been successful in its request to
amend the Barrington Street Heritage Conservation District
Revitalization Plan and the Downtown Halifax Secondary Municipal
Planning Strategy (MPS).

The revisions serve to exempt two development agreement applications
from the heritage
conservation plan and bylaw for Barrington Street, and extend the
deadline for them to be considered under the approval process that was
in place at the time of their applications. The two development
agreement applications include the Roy Building site and the Discovery
Centre site.

Council approved the changes to allow the “grandfathering” of these
applications under the old process, but approval from the Province to
amend the plan and planning strategy was also required.

To learn more about the Discovery Centre proposal, please
visit the Planning Applications section of the HRM website at:
http://www.halifax.ca/planning/Case01231Details.html . To learn more
about the Roy Building proposal, please visit
http://www.halifax.ca/planning/Case01172Details.html .

The approved revisions redress an oversight in drafting the Barrington
Street conservation plan and bylaw, which had been intended to
“grandfather” pre-existing applications.

The way is now clear for the proposals to proceed through a process
that includes review by Council committees and the provision for
public hearings before Council determines whether these projects will or will not proceed.

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Unfortunately that is what has to be done in this town to appease the heritage obstructionists and get a positive recommendation from HRM staff thanks to the absurd language in the MPS that states that buildings must be compatible with the surrounding structures (or words to that effect). I agree that it is ridiculous.

That's not absurd language; that's good design. If you have no acknowledgement of the urban fabric you're working with or no feedback from the people affected when designing a building, that building might as well be in an empty field in the middle of nowhere. Vernacular environment is a critical design tool, not employing it reduces good design to a matter of raw dumb luck. That applies everywhere, not just downtown Halifax.

Unless 'compatible' is a more draconian term than I'm interpreting it as, of course.