Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[Gordon]

It appears in 2009 Translink's overall cost recovery was 49.8%

[ozonemania]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

But I think in terms of just getting downtown, it would be awfully tempting to take the train if it's hovering right above you... especially if it's advertised as faster.

It is just as fast or faster depending on the time of the day. The big plus for me as a business traveller, especially because I travel often, is reliability. Ppl like us will try and time it so they spend as little time at the airport as possible.

High frequency + known arrival times = happy traveller.

On a related note, I think it will be still quite some time until the general population learns to take advantage of the Canada Line airport option. Old habits die hard.

For example, my cousin recently came back from London. She and her family insisted on her getting pickup up by car from the airport. She only had a carry-on, and they all live downtown, about 1.5 blocks away from a Canada Line station. The time it took the driver (ME) to pick them up drive to the airport pick her up drive them all back... almost 1.5 hrs. I could have justified it if they wanted to go eat dinner somewhere in Richmond or the West Side, but they wanted to eat downtown...

Pre-Canada Line this was pretty well the norm. Doesn't seem too logical today.

[DKaz]

There'll always be a stereotype against transit I find, no mater how great the new modern systems are. The West Coast Express' ridership is 16 years in the making. When I first took it in 2000 at least a quarter of the seats were empty leaving Waterfront. Now if you don't get to the station at least 5 minutes before departure, you'll be lucky if you get a seat.

[tybuilding]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

But I think in terms of just getting downtown, it would be awfully tempting to take the train if it's hovering right above you... especially if it's advertised as faster.

When I was in Atlanta I took their metro. It went right from the airport to 1.5 blocks away from my hotel. Why not?

[tybuilding]

Originally Posted by ozonemania

For example, my cousin recently came back from London. She and her family insisted on her getting pickup up by car from the airport. She only had a carry-on, and they all live downtown, about 1.5 blocks away from a Canada Line station. The time it took the driver (ME) to pick them up drive to the airport pick her up drive them all back... almost 1.5 hrs. I could have justified it if they wanted to go eat dinner somewhere in Richmond or the West Side, but they wanted to eat downtown...

Pre-Canada Line this was pretty well the norm. Doesn't seem too logical today.

I would of said no. I don't like picking up people from the airport especially if it is only 1 person and especially if they live here and could take transit. I don't mind picking them up from the train station though.

[djh]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

I have a bit of a problem with the electronic bus stop displays because I can see it being awfully expensive to equip all of the bus stops with these signs and then keep them working in the face of vandalism and equipment failures.

There's a better way: Boston made all of it's real-time GPS raw data openly available on the web. Within 5 weeks applications had become available for cell phones to show next-bus arrival times for any stop. Businesses started installing countdown timers in their windows to let people know how much time they had to come in and shop before the next bus came. All at no cost to the transit agency beyond making the data available.

It's a very interesting read: http://pricetags.wordpress.com/2010/05/07/the-ice-cream-shop-solution/

The Boston solution sounds like a great idea. But I wouldn't rely or expect small local shops to go to the expense of educating walk-by traffic on when the bus is coming.

I would, however, say a fair compromise is for Translink to install bus schedule digital displays at the major stops - e.g., main intersections, or where multiple bus routes converge on a stop. Not every single stop is necessary. For example, along Broadway, I'd say the obvious places for the displays would be following the 99 bus route stops, and a few other main stops in between.

[djh]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

B.C. pilots dynamic transit display



...

http://www.itworldcanada.com/news/waiting-for-a-bus/141268

A 46-inch bus-stop display screen? How long before some yob tries to nick that? Or smash it? And how much did that single bus stop cost?! I'm not paying for that system to be replicated at every stop across the region, no matter how many people it gets using the bus! Who's dumb idea was that?

[Zassk]

^ Off-the-shelf TVs are dirt cheap and easily replaced - probably substantially cheaper than the industrial-strength line displays on Main Street, even if you replaced the TV more often. I suspect the TV is in a secure housing of some kind (haven't seen it myself). A standard display like that would certainly give the maximum amount of flexibility.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by djh

A 46-inch bus-stop display screen? How long before some yob tries to nick that? Or smash it? And how much did that single bus stop cost?! I'm not paying for that system to be replicated at every stop across the region, no matter how many people it gets using the bus! Who's dumb idea was that?

I think such displays are great for hub stations / busy stations, but of course not needed at every stop!

[DKaz]

Heck Tim Horton's now uses LCDs for their entire menu. Commercial units are often no frills (I don't think it even has a tuner) and therefore I think cheaper than consumer units. Just plug them into a network or display port to have them display what you want it to display and boom.

I still prefer the next bus displays though, but over the years the number of transit users who have smartphones is going to grow substantially that displays at every single bus stop is not going to be necessary, unless people are too cheap to get a data plan of course...

[deasine]

Millennium Line Service Disruption

Due to an electrical problem on the Millennium Line, there is only single-track shuttle trains operating between Production Way and Commercial-Broadway station. A bus bridge is being set up between VCC-Clark Station and Production Way. This will supplement the single-track alternating shuttle trains running between Production Way and Commercial-Broadway. Technicians have found the problem, but it will take some time to fix. Those planning to take SkyTrain during the rush hour should prepare for lengthy delays and one or maybe two transfers either between trains or from train to bus bridge.

Expo Line and Canada Line services are running normally.

TransLink

[Zassk]

^ Good thing those 7 affected stations are among the lowest ridership in the whole network...

[djh]

^^
The only logic I can apply to having a 46inch LCD at a bus stop to display about 20 characters of information is this: the screens will eventually become advertising conduits. Much like in the Canada Line stations, where the screens show news, advertising and local information. Maybe the bus stop advertisers are pushing for this and are funding the upgrades, because boy, no matter how cheap a commercial LCD 46" screen is (what, $500?), I'm sure the current scrolling message lightbulb-type displays are an order of magnitude cheaper.

[invisibleairwaves]

Originally Posted by Zassk

^ Good thing those 7 affected stations are among the lowest ridership in the whole network...

Boardings at those stations might be pretty low, but the actual ridership is pretty high between Commercial-Broadway and Lougheed. Packed trains aren't at all uncommon during rush hour. So I'm glad I have Wednesdays off and I don't have to make my usual Renfrew-Columbia commute today!

[BCPhil]

I sort of like the idea of an accurate GPS updated departures boards in Skytrain Stations. It would be nice to come down from the platform, see your bus listed, and know if you need to run out to its berth or not.

As for LED signs, indoor versions cost as little as $150 and weather proof outdoor versions (which are typically bigger than what Translink would need) are about $1000 in bulk, and that includes the built in networking support (IE they are factory made to support being fed text by remote computers).

I was at a bus stop once waiting for a bus (that came by every hour) and I must have just missed it because I had a long time to wait. While I waited, I got to watch city workers put up a new transit info board (you know, the kind that holds the map). There were 3 guys, all watching each other take turns with the jack hammer. After that was done they had to hold a pipe steady while they poured concrete. Then they got to "monitor" it while it set. I had to leave before I could see them finish, but it must have taken 3 people a shifts worth of work and quite a bit of labour and materials just to put up a poster. It probably cost the city 5 times to put up what the actual sign cost. So I think if you look at it that way, adding a $1000 LED sign to the post marignally increases the total cost of the project when you count installation costs.

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by DKaz

I was going through this list on this website on federal contributions to BC projects:

http://www.buildingcanada-chantierscanada.gc.ca/regions/bc/isf-fsi-proj-eng.php

Some interesting tidbits:

$11.6 million for Metrotown Station
$18.3 million for Expo Line Station Expansion
$24.8 million for ALRT rolling stock

I'm not sure which funding has been provided already, what's future, what's current and what's done (I think the ALRT rolling stock is done). Things like Canada Place Roof Replacement is current. Evergreen Line is a bit of a future although construction should start early next year.

lots of interesting mentions there.....

Vancouver Main Street Station upgrade $8,300,000
Vancouver Evergreen Transit Line $350,000,000
Vancouver Expo Line Station Expansion $18,300,000
Vancouver West Coast Express Commuter Rail Improvements $9,019,000
Vancouver Scott Road Station upgrade $1,700,000
Vancouver Fibre Optic Upgrade (Expo Line) $1,900,000
Vancouver Metrotown Station (Expo Line) $11,600,000
Vancouver ALRT Security (Faregates) $30,000,000
Vancouver Advanced Light Rail Transit (ALRT) Network Upgrade $400,000

[usog]

Originally Posted by djh

A 46-inch bus-stop display screen? How long before some yob tries to nick that? Or smash it? And how much did that single bus stop cost?! I'm not paying for that system to be replicated at every stop across the region, no matter how many people it gets using the bus! Who's dumb idea was that?

The display on Highway 99/Steveston has real time arrival times for buses as well as a real time map with positions overlayed on-top, shown on fairly large LCD that's mounted pretty well out of reach. The difference between the LCD and the LED displays is that it shows position and time for multiple bus routes. You can barely see it in the tiny picture they have in that article but it's actually pretty cool, I think it's more intended for high-volume transit exchanges. Either way, it's pretty damn cool imo.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Gordon

It appears in 2009 Translink's overall cost recovery was 49.8%

The reason this number is lower compared to previous years is due to Canada Line - everything paid to InTransitBC are counted as "operating cost". This would include the cost of operation, repayment for capital investiment, interest, etc.. (I calculated from the annual report, and this gives about 2.4 billions over the next 31 years, not adjusted for inflation - about 83.4 millions a year for the first 25 years, and 52.9 millions for the last 6 - again, not adjusted for inflation).

The cost recovery for 2010 Q1 is at 67.5%, mainly due to the Olympics and people stocking up faresavers before the price increase...

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by djh

The Boston solution sounds like a great idea. But I wouldn't rely or expect small local shops to go to the expense of educating walk-by traffic on when the bus is coming.

I would, however, say a fair compromise is for Translink to install bus schedule digital displays at the major stops - e.g., main intersections, or where multiple bus routes converge on a stop. Not every single stop is necessary. For example, along Broadway, I'd say the obvious places for the displays would be following the 99 bus route stops, and a few other main stops in between.

I don't think its 'educating walk-by traffic', but making the customer experience a little better. In the US the owner of a coffee shop who was a bit of a techie created a LED sign that simply showed the estimated arrival times of the next buses at nearby bus stops. The sign pulled the info from the Google feed about the local bus routes.

He built the entire sign for about $100, and mounted it on the wall in the shop so his customers could know how long before their bus shows up.

Some customers now know they can let a bus pass by because the next one will be there in 2 or 3 minutes, so they have enough time to get their coffee & muffin & peruse the newspaper headlines before leaving the shop to catch the bus.

I think the article said that other shop owners in his neighbourhood have approached him to build the same LED sign for their stores.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

But I think in terms of just getting downtown, it would be awfully tempting to take the train if it's hovering right above you... especially if it's advertised as faster.

but a taxi can take you right to the door of where you need to be at no expense to you since its arranged

we could use the taxis if we worked late and missed the last train - they just wrote it down in their books we didn't have to pay anything