Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Agreed - it's been discussed to death before (several times).

- OMC can't fit longer trains
- A-B married pairs would require extensive work to "insert" a C-car including new software and maybe onboard computers. Full length trains A-C-B trains would have to be ordered as an integral "unit".

What did they do in Kuala Lumpur? They went from 2 car MK II to 4 car train sets. Were they planning on 4 car trains back in the 90's when they designed the system or did they do (gasp) upgrades? If it came down to spending $2 billion to upgrade expo line stations to accept 6 car MKII trains (of 3 married pairs) or at most a hundred million to upgrade the OMC and computers so we could buy 5 car trains that fit current platforms with maximum occupancy space, I think I would upgrade the OMC. I'm not saying we need to go out and buy C car trains today, but it's something to think about when the Province talks about spending a Gordo's Ransom on extending Expo line station platform length.

Besides, don't even the 2 car MKII trains actually hang out the ends of the current OMC sheds when they are doing maintenance? And it wouldn't be that much work to insert a new car. They are married, but not manufactured together. They do come apart as that's how they were shipped here. If they are designed to fit together, the engineers at Bombardier could come up with a solution that could insert between them. Just because an HDMI cable is the same at both ends doesn't mean there doesn't exist a cable that can extend it's range further.

[DKaz]

Dunsmuir used to be a two way street? Or maybe there was an eastbound bus lane similar to 102 Ave in Edmonton (one-way westbound with and eastbound bus lane, but has been converted to a full two-way street some time ago).

BCIT wasn't open yet and there was no Willingdon bus.

There was a Second Narrows bridge, it linked to Rupert.

There was a bridge between downtown New West and the Quay, a bus ran there too.

I wonder what this North Vancouver Ferry was.

Craziness!

[TransitJack]

Originally Posted by officedweller

1958 bus map linked over at the Buzzer Blog:

http://www.whatthehelvetica.ca/2010/07/15/vancouver-transit-map-from-1958/

Note:
No Trans-Canada Highway
(I don't think there's a Second Narrows Bridge on the map)
No Knight Street Bridge (there's the Fraser St.-No.5 Rd. Bridge)

No Arthur Laing Bridge either, nor the Champlain Heights neighbourhood. Pretty crazy how much has changed. I found it interesting how so many of the bus route numbers have not changed (though some revisions of routing has occurred).

And at UBC, the bus went right into the heart of the uni. Go figure!

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by DKaz

There was a Second Narrows bridge, it linked to Rupert.

I wonder what this North Vancouver Ferry was.

The "new"' 2nd Narrows Bridge was still under construction (and also collapsed in the same year of '58) and I suspect that the light-coloured part with the dotted line represents the new crossing under construction.

The 2nd Narrows Bridge that "was in use" (between Bridgeway and Railway St.) was in actuality the "old" rail bridge, which also provided alternating "one-lane", "one-way" vehicular crossings controlled by traffic light - the same sort of set up as the Mission Rail Bridge until the new Mission Bridge opened in 1974.

The North Vancouver Ferry was actually a car ferry and ended it's service once the new 2nd Narrows Bridge opened up.



Source: http://regardingplace.com/

As an aside, this last car ferry was later utilized as the "Seven Seas Restaurant" at the foot of Lonsdale.

Also note that the large block of land bounded by Oak St./Cambie St. and 41st Ave. and 49th remained undeveloped (among others areas within Vancouver). Apparently that was quasi-swap land back then owned by the CPR. They later drained it and during the 1960's sf residential subdivisions were completed therein. Oak Ridge Mall was constructed in the northeast quadrant.

Edited to Add: The south end of the Pattullo Bridge is co-labeled "Hwy No. 1" and "Hwy No. 99" referring to the Fraser Hwy and the King George Hwy respectively.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by TransitJack

No Arthur Laing Bridge either, nor the Champlain Heights neighbourhood. Pretty crazy how much has changed. I found it interesting how so many of the bus route numbers have not changed (though some revisions of routing has occurred).

And at UBC, the bus went right into the heart of the uni. Go figure!

There's no YVR in fact. Well there is, but it's where the South Terminal is today; the main terminal and runways were built in 1968

Some of the bus numbers are the same as the original streetcar routes. http://www.tundria.com/trams/CAN/Vancouver-1940.shtml or http://bcer.trams.bc.ca/pics/downtownlq.JPG

I wish they would build a new bridge across at Fraser Street.

And I must add that I never thought we had maps harder to read than our current ones.

[officedweller]

See C-car thread discussions:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=4449527&highlight=c-car#post4449527

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=139991&page=305&highlight=C-car

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=139991&page=306&highlight=C-car

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=139991&page=307&highlight=C-car

Found this old post too -

Originally Posted by officedweller

FYI - found the following reference to the 5-car train in a 2007 Ultimate Capcity Report that was previously available on the TransLink RFP website last year (or earlier?) (note the typo in the original for "overhang"):



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[twoNeurons]

Near Deer Lake: OAkalla Prison Farm
Little Mountain Park ( with resevoir ) instead of QE Park.
Asylum ( near New West )
No SFU!
No #1 Highway! ( You can see where the ROW is... but there are roads just south of Burnaby Lake and a huge park there.

[Zassk]

Also on the old map...

- no Canada Way
- Kingsway has different approach into New West
- it looks like Patullo Bridge ends at a 'T' at Columbia
- zero malls in Richmond
- I can't make out King Edward - I'm thinking it didn't exist...???

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by DKaz

Dunsmuir used to be a two way street? Or maybe there was an eastbound bus lane similar to 102 Ave in Edmonton (one-way westbound with and eastbound bus lane, but has been converted to a full two-way street some time ago).

There wouldn't have been a viaduct at the time - so I'll bet it was 2-way - just like Pender - or maybe even 1-way the other way. The Georgia Viaduct at the time just led 2-way into Georgia Street.

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Little Mountain Park ( with resevoir ) instead of QE Park.

It says Queen Elizabeth in brackets - but did you notice that Nat Bailey (presumably) is called "Capilano Stadium"?

********

Note the RCAF label at the current Vanier Park.

Note the guide to Vancouver street numbers in the lower left corner.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by officedweller

1958 bus map linked over at the Buzzer Blog:

I was already familiar with most of the changes noted by other posters - but what really surprised me was that in my neighborhood the east end of 41st Avenues was not connected through to Joyce Street and trolley service terminated at Victoria drive. What's more, East 45th Avenue was a bus route!

It sure explains why 41st Avenue is missing it's curb parking lanes in that section.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by DKaz

Would you people please have mercy on this horse, it died over a year ago yet we keep on beating it with a stick. Other than a small fleet expansion for the Evergreen Line, t's going to be ten years minimum before we see any significant fleet expansion including C cars.

DKaz, what you're observing is a great example of "groupthink"; people jumping on a thought-train bandwagon like sheep. I agree with you; bury the horse and get on with another aspect of the transit system. Puh-leeze

oops!! I see I posted too late, and most members are onto another topic. Thank you and excuse me.

[DKaz]

Originally Posted by Zassk

Also on the old map...

- no Canada Way
- Kingsway has different approach into New West
- it looks like Patullo Bridge ends at a 'T' at Columbia
- zero malls in Richmond
- I can't make out King Edward - I'm thinking it didn't exist...???

Canada Way was Grandview Hwy + Douglas Rd

Kingsway still goes to 12th St. but Stewardson Way didn't exist. For the longest time, When Stewardson Way was first built, I believe it terminated at 12th/Columbia... then it was reconfigured to continue on to Columbia with 12th St terminating at it.

King Edward Ave is definitely there. Look closer.

I can't tell but yea definitely looks like the Patullo Bridge terminated at an interchange with Columbia and did not continue on to McBride.

Burnaby looks so sparsely populated.

Amazing that bus routes 26, 27, 28, and 29 are still essentially the same today. And funny for example how Route 20 was northbound on Victoria and southbound on Granville, then Route 25 was northbound on Granville and southbound on Victoria.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by DKaz

And funny for example how Route 20 was northbound on Victoria and southbound on Granville, then Route 25 was northbound on Granville and southbound on Victoria.

All the trolley north/south routes used to be "interlined". Main street trolleys continued through the downtown core to Cambie, IIRC. Renfrew was the other half of the Arbutus route. Robson and Main were interlined.

The separation of the routes was done so that problems on one half of an interlined route wouldn't affect the other half. I'm not exactly sure when the change was made, I think it was in the 90's sometime.

[eduardo88]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Agreed - it's been discussed to death before (several times).

- OMC can't fit longer trains
- A-B married pairs would require extensive work to "insert" a C-car including new software and maybe onboard computers. Full length trains A-C-B trains would have to be ordered as an integral "unit".

I'd like it if they ordered A-C-B trains for the Evergreen Line

[Zassk]

^ The Evergreen Line isn't going to run longer than 2-car trains for a long time - think Canada Line... you can't have high frequency AND long trains out at the tail end of these lines, pick one or the other.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by officedweller

There wouldn't have been a viaduct at the time - so I'll bet it was 2-way - just like Pender - or maybe even 1-way the other way. The Georgia Viaduct at the time just led 2-way into Georgia Street.


It says Queen Elizabeth in brackets - but did you notice that Nat Bailey (presumably) is called "Capilano Stadium"?

********

Note the RCAF label at the current Vanier Park.

Note the guide to Vancouver street numbers in the lower left corner.

The Georgia Viaduct at that time went from Georgia/Beatty to East Georgia/Main St.

The remains of the Georgia/Beatty side of the old viaduct were just removed to start construction of the new Cosmo condos at the NE corner of Georgia/Beatty (south of the Beatty Street Armoury). This is also where the remains of the CPR Dunsmuir tunnel are being removed so Cosmo can get its foundations as deep as the Spectrum Condos / Costco next door.


On the other side of Burrard bridge from the RCAF station is the label for the B.C.E.R. trolley yard, and further east is the Kitsilano Bridge running across False Creek to the CPR yards & into downtown Vancouver. I believe by this time the rail trolleys had been replaced with the 'trackless trolleys' and most of the street rails were ripped up, but this Kitsilano Bridge was apparently CPR property and was also used for CPR freights to get across False Creek to service the industries on the south side of False Creek (including Granville island), and was also how freight trains using the Arbutus Corridor were able to access the CPR yards on the north side of False Creek.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by Zassk

Also on the old map...

- no Canada Way
- Kingsway has different approach into New West
- it looks like Patullo Bridge ends at a 'T' at Columbia
- zero malls in Richmond
- I can't make out King Edward - I'm thinking it didn't exist...???

Its definitely there (under the V A N C O U V E R banner).
I'm surprised to see that instead of ending at Crown as it does today, there is a dotted line indicating that King Edward would have continued west into the UEL to join up with Imperial and 29th Ave, and then continue in a grand curve north to enter the UBC lands from the south end & connect with the Main Mall at Thunderbird Stadium.

It appears that today's S. Campus Road near the UBC Farm and the Botanical Garden Greenhouses might have been part of this Main Mall -to- King Edward Boulevard.

[punface]

http://www.vancouversun.com/Pacific+Coac...en+Victoria+Vancouver/3315193/story.html

Citing massive losses, Pacific Coach Lines has cut its bus service on B.C. Ferries.

The company will no longer run its service, which carries people from downtown Victoria to downtown Vancouver with stops in between, on even-hour ferry sailings and will instead operate only on the odd-hour sailings which start at 7 a.m. and run until 9 p.m.

Pacific Coach Lines has told media outlets it lost in excess of $1 million last year and would have cut its service further if the decision was based solely on the economics. But a representative has said the company feels a responsibility to the passengers in the communities it serves.

B.C. Ferries spokeswoman Deborah Marshall said they understand PCL’s decision.

“From a business point of view if their ridership is down, from a purely financial angle we understand what they are doing,” she said, noting it likely reflects the changing needs and activities of customers.

Marshall said it’s likely improvements in public transit like the addition of the Canada Line and better linking with buses on the Lower Mainland and express service on the Island has had an impact on PCL’s ridership.

...

I'm not that surprised by this. I'm carless and travel to Victoria pretty regularly, and since the Canada Line opened I've stopped using PCL on the Vancouver side. I am still upset though because I would use it most of the time on the Victoria side.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by punface

http://www.vancouversun.com/Pacific+Coac...en+Victoria+Vancouver/3315193/story.html



I'm not that surprised by this. I'm carless and travel to Victoria pretty regularly, and since the Canada Line opened I've stopped using PCL on the Vancouver side. I am still upset though because I would use it most of the time on the Victoria side.

Perhaps at Swartz Bay there will be a local (Vancouver Island) Victoria coach service to meet each ferry. It wouldn't be a "seamless web" like PCL, but it would link the trip together. (Maybe there already IS such a service; it's been so long, I don't know)

[Whalleyboy]

Originally Posted by punface

http://www.vancouversun.com/Pacific+Coac...en+Victoria+Vancouver/3315193/story.html



I'm not that surprised by this. I'm carless and travel to Victoria pretty regularly, and since the Canada Line opened I've stopped using PCL on the Vancouver side. I am still upset though because I would use it most of the time on the Victoria side.

maybe they should look at beating translink to the punch and link up surrey central with the ferries and downtown victoria
cause right now its a joke if you want to get to the ferries from central. the amount of time to travel on transit almost makes you want to drive instead and pay the extra