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  #1121  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2010, 12:32 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Originally Posted by JustinMacD View Post
I just have a quick question. I was on Facebook and saw the "Save the View" group on there... and I was just wondering if these people have day jobs? Do they 100% dedicate their lives to this goal of slowing down Halifax's progress? I was just sort of curious. Like Pacey, what does he do? This Liz MacDougall person, what does she do?
There is a Dr. Phil Pacey who is a university professor at Dalhousie University (Department of Chemistry) but I don't know if this is the same Phil Pacey? I had Dr. Pacey as a Chemistry professor at Dalhousie University back in 1976 but I don't know if it is the same person?
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  #1122  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2010, 12:40 PM
JustinMacD JustinMacD is offline
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Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
There is a Dr. Phil Pacey who is a university professor at Dalhousie University (Department of Chemistry) but I don't know if this is the same Phil Pacey? I had Dr. Pacey as a Chemistry professor at Dalhousie University back in 1976 but I don't know if it is the same person?
Yeah I Googled him before and saw that same name at DAL. Wouldn't surprise me. Doesn't he live around Schmidtville? It would make sense.
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  #1123  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2010, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
There is a Dr. Phil Pacey who is a university professor at Dalhousie University (Department of Chemistry) but I don't know if this is the same Phil Pacey? I had Dr. Pacey as a Chemistry professor at Dalhousie University back in 1976 but I don't know if it is the same person?
You will find a lot of them are professors, and yes that is probably the same prof you had back in 1976.
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  #1124  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2010, 4:35 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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Originally Posted by JustinMacD View Post
Yeah I Googled him before and saw that same name at DAL. Wouldn't surprise me. Doesn't he live around Schmidtville? It would make sense.
It would explain the negative play that the Trillium got. I was doing some research on Schmidtville and I found an old map (can't remember where) that showed that the block the Trillium was in wasn't part of Schmidtville.

Either way; the context changed as soon as Park Victoria was built.
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  #1125  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2010, 4:35 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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Just to add 'salt to the wound' (so to speak)...

This just broke on CBC news for PEI:
$17.5M convention centre for Charlottetown
Last Updated: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 | 1:31 PM AT Comments0Recommend0CBC News
A long-anticipated convention centre for Charlottetown was announced Tuesday.

The 36,000 square-foot complex will be built to hold receptions for up to 3,000 people and dining events for up to 1,500 people.

Gail Shea, the federal minister responsible for P.E.I., and Premier Robert Ghiz were on hand for the announcement. It is estimated that the convention centre will cost approximately $17.5 million to complete. That will be cost-shared by the federal and provincial governments.

The centre will be built on the waterfront near the Delta Prince Edward hotel, on a site now occupied by the Canadian Coast Guard. The coast guard will move to another location in the Charlottetown area.

In a news release, government officials say the centre will double P.E.I.'s capacity for hosting meetings and described it as the next step in the Island's investment in tourism infrastructure.

"The anticipated investment in the PEI Convention Centre will increase meetings and convention business by close to 30 per cent over five years," said Ghiz.

"Once it is fully operational, the new Centre will add a further $6.5 million in annual tourism business to the provincial economy."

The facility will be physically connected to the Delta Prince Edward, and will be managed by the hotel, subject to an operating agreement that is being finalized.

Final funding arrangements are still being negotiated. If the development progresses as anticipated, the new facility will be hosting conventions in the fall of 2012.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/prince-edward-i...convention-centre-584.html#ixzz0uF0c8Noi
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  #1126  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2010, 5:14 PM
sdm sdm is offline
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Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post
This just broke on CBC news for PEI:
$17.5M convention centre for Charlottetown
Last Updated: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 | 1:31 PM AT Comments0Recommend0CBC News
A long-anticipated convention centre for Charlottetown was announced Tuesday.

The 36,000 square-foot complex will be built to hold receptions for up to 3,000 people and dining events for up to 1,500 people.

Gail Shea, the federal minister responsible for P.E.I., and Premier Robert Ghiz were on hand for the announcement. It is estimated that the convention centre will cost approximately $17.5 million to complete. That will be cost-shared by the federal and provincial governments.

The centre will be built on the waterfront near the Delta Prince Edward hotel, on a site now occupied by the Canadian Coast Guard. The coast guard will move to another location in the Charlottetown area.

In a news release, government officials say the centre will double P.E.I.'s capacity for hosting meetings and described it as the next step in the Island's investment in tourism infrastructure.

"The anticipated investment in the PEI Convention Centre will increase meetings and convention business by close to 30 per cent over five years," said Ghiz.

"Once it is fully operational, the new Centre will add a further $6.5 million in annual tourism business to the provincial economy."

The facility will be physically connected to the Delta Prince Edward, and will be managed by the hotel, subject to an operating agreement that is being finalized.

Final funding arrangements are still being negotiated. If the development progresses as anticipated, the new facility will be hosting conventions in the fall of 2012.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/prince-edward-i...convention-centre-584.html#ixzz0uF0c8Noi
Wow this and Fredicton's.

I know the reports released by the Trade Centre limited it showed that a significant part of their business is regional, therefore with two additional centres being built the competition just got a lot tougher.
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  #1127  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2010, 7:09 PM
JustinMacD JustinMacD is offline
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All this does is give more ammunition to the Save the View crowd. They'll just ramble on about how Halifax will have to compete with PEI and Fredricton so it isn't even worth it to build a new one.

UGH JUST GET IT APPROVED.
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  #1128  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2010, 7:18 PM
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I believe the proposed Halifax Convention centre will cater to a national and international market more so than a regional.
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  #1129  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2010, 8:52 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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Originally Posted by JustinMacD View Post
All this does is give more ammunition to the Save the View crowd. They'll just ramble on about how Halifax will have to compete with PEI and Fredricton so it isn't even worth it to build a new one.

UGH JUST GET IT APPROVED.
No I don't think it will give them more ammunition - it will all depend on how you spin it.

Think about it: part of getting conventions to come to a place is the ease of access. Charlottetown and Fredericton have reasonable road access, but air access is the pits. Air Canada Jazz flies from Toronto to both and from Halifax and Westjet seasonally flies to Charlottetown and that's it. There are charters; but I doubt people will use them. So how will they get there? They will fly from wherever into Halifax first and then get there.

So my spin on this would be - great; they can complete for the regional conferences. We will work to grab more national and international conferences because we have the direct flights to the US (United/Continential, US Airways, Delta/Northwest and American) as well as direct flights (on mass) into central and western Canada and to the Europe (Air Canada to London, Air Transit to London, Icelandair to Reykjavik, Condor to Frankfurt and Corsair to Paris).

Plus with Via rail service via Montreal - which can connect through Toronto to New York and Boston; the spin will be in the access.
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  #1130  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2010, 11:11 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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I keep checking the Rank Inc. website, http://www.novacentre.ca/ , but they haven't updated the renderings. Since the plans have been submitted to the provincial government, I wonder why Rank Inc. doesn't post them to their website?
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  #1131  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 1:09 AM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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I'd say because it circumvents the criticism from obstructionists and their false economic interpretation has less umpff with their real target market, the anti height folks that don't want Halifax to be a city.

What they can't see can definitely hurt them in this case... which is a good thing and I bet have been positive changes. I hope to the base of the tower... I don't mind the tower design depending on the material used for the horizontal sripes on the facad.
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  #1132  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 4:34 AM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian View Post
I'd say because it circumvents the criticism from obstructionists and their false economic interpretation has less umpff with their real target market, the anti height folks that don't want Halifax to be a city.

What they can't see can definitely hurt them in this case... which is a good thing and I bet have been positive changes. I hope to the base of the tower... I don't mind the tower design depending on the material used for the horizontal sripes on the facad.
I would have to agree witht his. The less information they have - they less ammunition they have.

nothing like leaving them in the dark.
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  #1133  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 4:16 PM
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Study: Centre would create tax bonanza

But opponents say convention business declining, facility would be waste of money


By BRUCE ERSKINE

Business Reporter

A new Halifax convention cen tre would generate more than $170 million in tax revenues over 10 years, says an economic impact study released Wednes day.

“What this study says is the industry is important to Nova Scotia, it’s one we can excel at and one that will generate sig nificant tax dollars and jobs," Scott Ferguson, president and chief executive officer of Trade Centre Ltd., said Wednesday in an interview.

Trade Centre is the provincial Crown corporation that operates the World Trade and Convention Centre in downtown Halifax, near the site of the proposed convention facility.

It commissioned the $10,000 study, done by Halifax consult ants
Gardner Pinfold .

The study concluded that the proposed convention facility, which would cost an estimated $120 million to $140 million, would also create about 27,000 person-years of employment.

That would be a gain of about 12,000 person-years of em ployment and $79 million in taxes, compared with the exist ing trade and convention centre. Opponents of the plan say the study is based on inflated visitor estimates Trade Centre has provided.

“It’s ridiculous in the ex treme," Allan Robertson, a member of the Coalition to Save the View, said Wednesday in an interview.

The coalition opposes the convention centre as a waste of public money that will block historic views of Halifax Har bour from the Citadel.

Robertson, a retired manage ment consultant with experi ence in the tourism sector, said the study’s revenue and em ployment conclusions are based on visitor numbers that are more than twice what the exist ing convention centre draws.

“If you make silly assump tions, you get silly results. The convention business is flat or declining."

Ferguson said the convention business is “rotational" and he defended the numbers provided for the study.

“I think they’re responsible numbers. We know a great deal about the industry."

Trade Centre has spent more than $50,000 on eight reports examining various aspects of the proposed convention centre. Critics say those expenditures have given proponents of the plan an unfair advantage over its opponents.

But Ferguson said it would be irresponsible not to examine a major public investment.

“You need to do your home work and we’ve done that. You can’t fault us for that."

If approved, the convention centre would be part of a $400-million commercial devel opment by Rank Inc. , which submitted its detailed plan to the province earlier this week.

Meanwhile, Infrastructure Minister Bill Estabrooks said Wednesday that he and depart mental staff were pouring over thousands of pages in four box es of documents submitted this week by Rank Inc.

The proposed convention centre rests on the “cold, hard facts" of the business case, Estabrooks said, adding that he was pleased by the level of de tail he has seen. Estabrooks plans to make a recommenda tion to cabinet by late summer or early fall on whether the province should help fund the project. He wouldn’t tip his hand on which way he’s lean ing, but said he is still listening to arguments, including from within the NDP government.

“But it’s not just the caucus and cabinet," he said. “We have to make sure that we are reflect ing the views of Nova Scotians." Jerry MacKinlay, riding asso ciation president for Halifax Atlantic, helped sponsor a reso lution at the NDP’s annual gen eral meeting in June opposing the new convention centre.

The resolution called for any provincial investment to be put toward “sustainable renova tions" to help expand Halifax’s current convention centre.

It never came to a vote, but MacKinlay said he believes there are better ways to spend government money at a time when the province is in debt.

With The Canadian Press ([email protected])
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  #1134  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 4:17 PM
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Fusion also had a large piece in the paper today. An add created in support of the centre from the board of directors. Unfortunately I am unable to copy it from the website.
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  #1135  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 4:22 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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I agree with the article completely. Halifax will undoubtedly increase its convention business with the new convention centre. My only complaint is that I wish that it was larger - however, I think that there are provisions in the design for future expansion (perhaps part of the office space can be converted to convention space in the future). Also, I wish that it were 30 storeys tall instead of only 18.

After the convention centre, Halifax needs an outdoor stadium. (it has been put on the back-burner long enough!)
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  #1136  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 5:50 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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My questions to the Save the View guy would be this:

1) You say you have experience in the tourism sector - explain your experience? What is it? (Because being the manager of a bed and breakfast for example doesn't qualify you to respond)
2) From what basis are your numbers coming from?
3) Of course the business is in decline when the economy goes down; but are there any (note how I qualify that) projections or discussions about the amount of business going up once the economy grows?

As for your comment Fenwick, I agree.
One thing that Calgary did was create a list of the top priority infrastructure projects, with cost estimates and a rated priority system and then began setting money aside for them either through federal or provincial grant programs for things like green infrastructure or just from the general revenues. Now of course the priorities changed with the whim of council, but that's how the west LRT line is getting built, the LRT extensions were done as well as BRTs.

I'd suggest that list be created during the regional planning phase - so that you can get a sense of what projects need to get done immediately in order to correct problems and then what are nice to haves.

From my perspective; I'd classify things like this (for now):
  1. High Speed Ferry link from Bedford;
  2. Expansion of BRT service;
  3. Convention Centre;
  4. Demolition of Cogswell interchange
  5. Airport Bus service (in some form);
  6. High Speed Ferry to Purcell's Cove;
  7. High Speed ferry to dock near Windmill Road or to Shannon Park;
  8. Stadium;
  9. Rapid transit line (in some form; either LRT or RAV system like Vancouver);
  10. Commuter rail (to extend beyond RAV service)

Not to say that a stadium isn't important; but if the CFL or any team is going to come to Halifax to play out of the stadium - you need more people. If you build up your transportation network; you create the opportunity for higher density; thus more people. You also improve the general functioning of the transportation network; making city life better.
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  #1137  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 5:54 PM
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Notwithstanding that "if indeed" convention business is down, it is perhaps because our current facility is no longer adequate enough to attract that business!
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  #1138  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 6:25 PM
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The convention trade may be flat or in slight decline.........I don't dispute that.

The NIMBY's however choose to ignore the fact that there is probably a lot of untapped demand amongst various organizations to host major conventions in Atlantic Canada. If you want to take adxantage of this then you have to build the facilities to draw the business here.........otherwise the convention business will continue to avoid Atlantic Canada and stay on the same old Toronto/Montreal/Calgary/Vancouver circuit.

Fredericton understands this. Charlottetown also understands this. That is why both of those cities are building major new convention facilities. These new facilities in NB and PEI will be on the same scale (or slightly better) than the existing WTCC in Halifax. You will then have three Maritime cities chasing the mid-sized convention trade.

If Halifax wants to stay ahead of the game, they absolutely must build a new large convention centre capable of competing with the first tier Canadian cities for major convention business. This is a market that has not yet been tapped in Atlantic Canada.

If you build it, they will come!!

I hate self serving NIMBY's. They can do irrepairable harm to a community's economy. Why does Halifax have so many of them?
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  #1139  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 6:39 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post
Not to say that a stadium isn't important; but if the CFL or any team is going to come to Halifax to play out of the stadium - you need more people. If you build up your transportation network; you create the opportunity for higher density; thus more people. You also improve the general functioning of the transportation network; making city life better.
I disagree completely. Halifax was awarded a franchise in 1983 but couldn't get a stadium built. Saskatchewan has supported a franchise since 1910 (see below). A Halifax based team could draw from all three Maritime Provinces (1.8 million people) which has 50% more people than Saskatchewan. Various CFL commissioners have stated that they want a team in Halifax.

If Halifax doesn't build a stadium then the team will end up in Moncton, where the CFL will be a huge success. If Halifax doesn't get a stadium and CFL team it will simply be because local area politicians are not in tune with what the public desires.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatchewan_Roughriders
Quote:
The Saskatchewan Roughriders are a Canadian Football League team based in Regina, Saskatchewan, founded in 1910. They play their home games at Mosaic Stadium at Taylor Field, the location that they have played at through their entire history, but is significantly different from the original facility. Originally known as the Regina Rugby Club from 1910 to 1923, they changed their name to the Regina Roughriders in 1924 and finally to the Saskatchewan Roughriders in 1948. The team draws fans from across Saskatchewan and Canada who are affectionately known as the "Rider Nation". The team is the current West Division Champions and have won three Grey Cups over their 100 year history. The fans are known for their loyalty and "Rider Pride", and it is not odd to find a group of Rider fans following the team on their road games across the country. The team also sells more merchandise and draws the highest TV ratings of any team[citation needed] in the CFL, despite playing in the smallest market by far in the league. The Roughriders play in the CFL's West Division. The team has had 17 players inducted into the Canadian Football Hall of Fame . Their rivalry with the Winnipeg Blue Bombers is arguably the most passionate and intense in the league, as games between the two are often sold out before the beginning of the season.
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  #1140  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 7:24 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
I disagree completely. Halifax was awarded a franchise in 1983 but couldn't get a stadium built. Saskatchewan has supported a franchise since 1910 (see below). A Halifax based team could draw from all three Maritime Provinces (1.8 million people) which has 50% more people than Saskatchewan. Various CFL commissioners have stated that they want a team in Halifax.
You are correct about Saskatchewan - their fans are hugely devoted; but aside from people here; I've yet to see a lot of people express interest in it. I'm not saying its not there; I'm sure it would be - I guess my concern would be that if you build it and they don't come; then what?

That being said - I don't think it should be sunk just out of fear that people might not come and support it.

My list was to express the importance of the regional plan and other issues to devote to population. We've talked about previous temporary stadiums; which could function until a permanent home was built - which I think is a reasonable solution until you got to it in the list I suggested. I guess I didn't make that clear, but certainly with a greater population will bring more potential fans.

Also; as I said earlier I don't know what the fan base and demand would be - so I'd need to understand where the fan base is and how big it would be before I'd feel comfy with building a permanent stadium. A temporary one; sure. But something fixed; I'd need to see the support (and I'd say that Council would probably need to see it as well) before committing the funds.

Then again; much like the convention centre debate - sometimes risk is worth it. As you can see, I don't really understand sports (don't watch them really) so this is something where my understanding is clearly lacking.

A stadium could be included in Shannon Park - thus being serviced with high speed ferry; so you could actually lump the two together from an infrastructure perspective.
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