Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[mezzanine]

Great news!

Skimming thru Jlousa's post, interesting how compatibility of thales' seltrac is mentioned by name, but not bombardier's name for vehicle compatibility. (ie. are they opening up for someone like hitachi or rotem to bid on skytrain-spec LIM-vehicles?)

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by mezzanine

Great news!

Skimming thru Jlousa's post, interesting how compatibility of thales' seltrac is mentioned by name, but not bombardier's name for vehicle compatibility. (ie. are they opening up for someone like hitachi or rotem to bid on skytrain-spec LIM-vehicles?)

If we get another supplier to build the cars, would they still be compatible with the Bombardier fleet? Can a pair-car train be paired up together for a 4-car train?

[lightrail]

Originally Posted by mr.x

If we get another supplier to build the cars, would they still be compatible with the Bombardier fleet? Can a pair-car train be paired up together for a 4-car train?

I'm guessing not. The control systems are probably proprietary and wouldn't be able to talk to each other. Besides, you can't even link up a Mark 1 and a Mark 2 and they're both by the same manufacturer.

Do you know of any metro where they've made a single train from cars built by different manufacturers? I don't.

[lightrail]

How the Campbell government works - a home example.

Son: Dad, I'd like a new car, but I don't have any money
Campbell: Well son, let get you that car - how much is it?
Son: The one I want costs a lot, but it's the best value, honesty. It's about $1.2 billion.
Campbell: Tell you what. I'll bet you that mom will chip in $400 million, I'll give you $400 million, I'll get the car manufacture to chip in $170 million that you can pay back over the next 30 years, and you find the other $230 million and it's a go.
Son: But dad, I don't have $230 million, and what about gas and operating costs. I don't have any money
Campbell: Don't worry about that. I promised you a car and we'll get you a car.
[week later]
Campbell: Son, I've ordered the car.
Son: But dad, I don't have any money,
Campbell: Oh, don't worry son, you'll find it. By the way, you'll need to start your payments to me by the end of the week.
Son: But I don't have any money - can I have a raise in allowance.
Campbell: No. I can't raise your allowance. You wanted the car, so you'd better pull your socks up and find the money. Honestly, after everything I do for you.
Son: Can I have a bus pas instead?
Campbell: A what?
Son: A bus pass:
Campbell: What's a bus pass - never heard of such a thing

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by lightrail

How the Campbell government works - a home example.

Son: Dad, I'd like a new car, but I don't have any money
Campbell: Well son, let get you that car - how much is it?
Son: The one I want costs a lot, but it's the best value, honesty. It's about $1.2 billion.
Campbell: Tell you what. I'll bet you that mom will chip in $400 million, I'll give you $400 million, I'll get the car manufacture to chip in $170 million that you can pay back over the next 30 years, and you find the other $230 million and it's a go.
Son: But dad, I don't have $230 million, and what about gas and operating costs. I don't have any money
Campbell: Don't worry about that. I promised you a car and we'll get you a car.
[week later]
Campbell: Son, I've ordered the car.
Son: But dad, I don't have any money,
Campbell: Oh, don't worry son, you'll find it. By the way, you'll need to start your payments to me by the end of the week.
Son: But I don't have any money - can I have a raise in allowance.
Campbell: No. I can't raise your allowance. You wanted the car, so you'd better pull your socks up and find the money. Honestly, after everything I do for you.
Son: Can I have a bus pas instead?
Campbell: A what?
Son: A bus pass:
Campbell: What's a bus pass - never heard of such a thing

[red-paladin]

Originally Posted by mezzanine

Great news!

Skimming thru Jlousa's post, interesting how compatibility of thales' seltrac is mentioned by name, but not bombardier's name for vehicle compatibility. (ie. are they opening up for someone like hitachi or rotem to bid on skytrain-spec LIM-vehicles?)

It's clear that the contract doesn't include the vehicles. Translink will supply them. So Translink will probably continue to buy more Type-H skytrains from Bombardier, unless they can get a better deal somewhere else. When they bought the recent trains, I'm sure they looked at options, but the Type-H were the best deal. Anything is possible, but so far I don't believe any other company has made a competitive offer.

[GeeCee]

Evergreen coming: Black

The search is on for someone to build the Evergreen Line so Tri-City residents will soon know who will be laying track and boring the tunnel for the long-awaited transportation project.

This week’s issuing of a request for qualifications is a clear signal that the project will be built on time, says Labour and Citizens’ Services Minister Iain Black, noting the scheduled opening date is late in 2014, one month off a schedule set more than two years ago.

Black also said anyone who still doubts progress is being made on the Evergreen Line hasn’t been paying attention, noting that engineers have been busy on the project for months and the public is currently engaged in a consultation process for environmental assessment certification.

While TransLink doesn’t have its $400-million share of the $1.4-billion project, that shortfall is not a deal-breaker, he said, because $827 million has already been put up by the provincial and federal governments, enough to get work underway in early 2011.

Still, he acknowledged TransLink’s funding issues are serious and said the Ministry of Transportation is “looking for ways to help them fulfill their obligation.”

The Port Moody-Westwood MLA is also bullish about the economic benefits that will accrue to the Tri-Cities once construction is underway. Some 8,000 jobs will be created by the investment, he said, many of them local because contractors typically hire locally for many of their sub-trades.

“You’ve seen that very consistent with all the major projects,” Black said, citing the Sea-to-Sky Highway and the Kicking Horse Canyon projects, in which B.C. companies were awarded significant contracts, including a $27.2-million contract to a Hope construction firm that is building the west portal section of the highway east of Golden.

He said the ministry will likely be looking for an experienced contractor for the public-private partnership (P3), a company with the financial muscle to be able to assume responsibility for certain risks, such as labour costs and volatile interest rates. The RFQ closes Sept. 7 and the ministry will chose three respondent teams, which will be whittled down to one in the competitive selection process.

The RFQ states the private partners have to be willing to design, build and finance the project, and Black said the province prefers P3s because they tend to deliver projects that are on time and on budget.

“It provides incentive to the general contractor to deliver their project on time and on budget because there’s very little wriggle room to go over,” Black said.

Once it’s completed, Black said, the Evergreen Line will deliver other benefits in addition to providing a 13-minute ride from Coquitlam Centre to Lougheed Mall. Spin-off benefits include increased development to support the new transportation infrastructure. Black predicted land along the line will eventually support new highrises and amenities, particularly in areas such as Burquitlam.

But he wouldn’t go as far to push for third stations in Coquitlam and Port Moody, which he said will have to be justified based on density and the ability of development to cover the cost of the stations because the province won’t be paying for them.

“There’s not another $22 million lying around to build another station,” he said.

In Port Moody, the city has supported the idea of a third station near Queens Street, and a citizens’ group wants one further west. In Coquitlam, a third station near Lincoln Avenue has been proposed.

In each case, Black said, the ministry has indicated a willingness to build the track to accommodate a future third station for each city. But those stations won’t likely be built until they can be justified by density and development dollars.

“The provisions have been put in place for each city to determine its own destiny on this matter,” he said.

As for the contentious Murray-Clark Connector, Black confirmed that the Evergreen Line will be built to accommodate a future connector when funding becomes available.

PoMo is currently in a legal wrangling with TransLink over the road, which is long-planned but unfunded. Black said the province won’t be stepping in to pay for the connector.

http://www.bclocalnews.com/tri_city_maple_ridge/tricitynews/news/Evergreen_coming_Black.html

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by red-paladin

It's clear that the contract doesn't include the vehicles. Translink will supply them. So Translink will probably continue to buy more Type-H skytrains from Bombardier, unless they can get a better deal somewhere else. When they bought the recent trains, I'm sure they looked at options, but the Type-H were the best deal. Anything is possible, but so far I don't believe any other company has made a competitive offer.

Oops, my bad, didn't read it properly...

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

Evergreen coming: Black



http://www.bclocalnews.com/tri_city_maple_ridge/tricitynews/news/Evergreen_coming_Black.html

It makes sense. There's almost $1 billion of the needed money already on the table, so may as well start construction. That money will last a while while the Province and Translink sorts out where the rest will come from, and $400 million won't cripple the province if a year or two down the road they need to cover Translinks share. Now is the time to build this because as the economy recovers it will only get more expensive. And it does look like the private company will have to cover that $400 million shortfall while we dig up the money.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by mezzanine

Great news!

Skimming thru Jlousa's post, interesting how compatibility of thales' seltrac is mentioned by name, but not bombardier's name for vehicle compatibility. (ie. are they opening up for someone like hitachi or rotem to bid on skytrain-spec LIM-vehicles?)

The RFQ mentions that Translink is providing vehicles and the Evergreen Line must be able to accommodate them.

Edit - too late...

[hollywoodnorth]

great stuff! Go Gordo and Black Go!

[Gordon]

I would suspect that some of Translink's portion would allow for the purchase of vehicles.

Do we know who else produces LIM vehicles or compatible vehicles ? A competitiive bidding process vehicles can only be a positive as it would reduce the costs for that part of project.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Well, Tokyo's Oedo line uses linear induction motors. Since I don't have my laptop with me in PG, I'm not going to look into it too much, but I'm pretty sure they're Kawasaki trains.

[mezzanine]

re-reading my jlousa's post, this is where I got confused:

(including new vehicles to be acquired for the Evergreen Line and the SkyTrain System’s existing vehicles)

there will be new vehciles provided, but not as part of the guideway/station design/build contract. A separate contract? the wording sugests opening it up to non-bombardier bidders

[deasine]

Originally Posted by mezzanine

there will be new vehciles provided, but not as part of the guideway/station design/build contract. A separate contract? the wording sugests opening it up to non-bombardier bidders

The Evergreen Line P3 will only involve the company contracting, constructing, and financing the Evergreen Line itself. Operation and the supply of vehicles will be up to BCRTC, who is most likely going to purchase additional Bombardier MKIIs. Construction companies like SNC/Lavalin, for instance, would be interested in such a contract, whereas companies such as Veolia Transportation, who mainly focus on the operation of transit vehicles (i.e. ProTrans BC), are less likely to bid on the Evergreen Line.

Now here's the interesting part, I wonder of Bombardier would offerer a cheaper rate if they were able to produce vehicles in addition to partnering up to build and finance the Evergreen Line.

[GeeCee]

Probably not after how we treated them with going with Rotem trainsets for the Canada Line right after they finished building a factory in Burnaby

[Zassk]

Well, their bid for the Canada Line was off the deep end... I have no idea how Bombardier thought it would be selected being so far over the target price. It was nearly 50% too high and way out of the price bracket of the M-Line. Wasn't their proposal for 80-m underground stations and 3-m wide SkyTrain cars (incompatible with Expo/M-line)? Talk about gold-plating.

Isn't it true that SNC-Lavalin, not Bombardier, built the Millennium Line?

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by Zassk

Well, their bid for the Canada Line was off the deep end... I have no idea how Bombardier thought it would be selected being so far over the target price. It was nearly 50% too high and way out of the price bracket of the M-Line. Wasn't their proposal for 80-m underground stations and 3-m wide SkyTrain cars (incompatible with Expo/M-line)? Talk about gold-plating.

Isn't it true that SNC-Lavalin, not Bombardier, built the Millennium Line?

Not so much gold plating, but long-term thinking and not expecting local officials to be retarded enough to build the system we have today - a half-assed system.....SNC-Lavalin was all about money even if it screws the whole region, and they know it. The Bombardier option could have been $1.8-billion if it were to be integrated with our SkyTrain system, but RAVCO rejected it in favour of a "fair competition" instead of opting to save all of us money both in present construction costs, future expansion costs, and operational costs.

And yes, SNC-Lavalin built the Millennium Line utilizing the government's design specifications.

[lightrail]

Looking good

VICTORIA - The Evergreen transit line in the northeast quadrant of Metro Vancouver will proceed as scheduled despite lingering uncertainty over funding, the project’s executive director said Wednesday.

Dave Duncan said the project is on track, even though the province is still talking to TransLink and municipalities about their share of the $1.4 billion project.

“There’s $827 million [earmarked by the provincial and federal governments] in place so far,” Duncan said. That leaves $573 million to be raised, and the province is in talks with TransLink and regional mayors to determine their contribution.

“That [$573 million] includes ... a $400-million commitment that the region and TransLink had previously made to the project,” he said. “Discussions are ongoing with TransLink and regional mayors, and the province ... regarding finding a way to secure that regional contribution.”

Duncan said the province has committed to keeping the project on schedule, regardless of what happens with the talks.

The 11-kilometre transit line is expected to be finished by the end of 2014.

A request for qualifications went out Monday, and Duncan said the government expects to award a contract by next summer.

He said the Evergreen Line will be built as an extension to the existing Millenium Line.
© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com

[Waders]

The government expects to award a contract by next summer?
So when will the construction actually start?