LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 3.0

[bmfarley]

As a relatively new newcomer to Los Angeles and being exposed to the downtown Civic Core... it's in quite a need of refurbishment revitilization or just simply... a do-over. Now, it is an embarrasment as this nations second most populated city.

The fountain illustrated in the last image from is the foundation for returning the area to a place-making status. Do that piece right, including view corridors of it, and seating around it, and I suspect the area will be quite the area to visit for LA region locals. Now, downtown LA is not on a list of places I consider going on a weekend. A refurbished Civic area can change that for a lot of people.

[Kingofthehill]

Originally Posted by bmfarley

Now, downtown LA is not on a list of places I consider going on a weekend.

Good. And hopefully we can keep it that way; I'd hate to see DTLA overrun with people such as yourself.

[Crackertastik]

Originally Posted by Kingofthehill

Good. And hopefully we can keep it that way; I'd hate to see DTLA overrun with people such as yourself.

Exactly what kind of people is that? People who aren't smoking that good shit thinking downtown LA is without flaws or a worthy center? Im sure you love it for its quarks and understatedness, but it does need a civic core re-do. PERIOD. It is highly underused and illegible, unknown. That is a problem, being the center of our city.

[RAlossi]

Yeah, that was overly harsh IMO. We're striving to make Downtown LA into a vibrant city center, not just a playground for the overly hip and adventurous.

Having lived here for over three years and coming down here for school four years before that, I can attest to how empty the Civic Center (and most of Financial District, Bunker Hill, and Historic Core) is on weekends. There's no reason to come down there unless there's a specific event, like a rave or large concert that can take advantage of the isolation and emptiness. I feel bad for the camera-toting tourists who come here looking for something more than just a few pretty buildings. I feel even worse for the people in the double-decker buses... there's almost nothing to see, and they paid good money for that ish.

Things have improved dramatically, but unless you're into urban decay or speakeasy-style lounges or are really into Asian fusion cuisine, there's still a long way to go. Still too many shuttered storefronts and barbed-wire parking lots for most people. Restaurants are the leading edge before retail, and we've reached the point where we should start to see more retail tenants soon, especially as the economy improves.

[JDRCRASH]

Originally Posted by colemonkee

^ As someone who lives in the area, I can say with some confidence that people are itching for green space and will use the new park. Now, will be as active as the renderings indicate, but it will get far more use than what's there. Keep in mind that it will green up the area considerably from what it is now, make access to the park much more visible, and will add a huge amount of green space that currently doesn't exist directly in front of City Hall.

Yeah, but I can see the point of some criticism. The problem is that, at least based on the renderings, it seems more of a large Pershing Square than a mini Central Park. Other than the area next to City Hall, it seems like just a plaza with a whole bunch of planters.

[Crackertastik]

Originally Posted by JDRCRASH

Yeah, but I can see the point of some criticism. The problem is that, at least based on the renderings, it seems more of a large Pershing Square than a mini Central Park. Other than the area next to City Hall, it seems like just a plaza with a whole bunch of planters.

I will admit that my I personally think the Civic Park at best will be a nice, useful and busy civic park and not anything near as iconic as Central Park. It just has too many hindrances. Namely, through streets, a very thin and long layout. You are limited in what can be done to immerse people in it.

On the other hand, the thing the park lacks more than anything is visibility from the extents and within as well as access. Fix those two things, which the design seems to be focusing on, and this park can be a very nice park.

If LA wants iconic open space, look into the Park 101. Not that Im fully on board with that. Just that sort of thing is what would bring iconic open space to LA.

[RAlossi]

^ LA's "Central Park" is Griffith Park, though of course it serves a different purpose. This isn't meant to be Central Park, nor should any comparisons be drawn between the two. If it were to be equivalent, it would have to stretch from 1st Street all the way to Adams.

By the way, I attended the meetings and voiced my concern over the amount of hardscaping vs. greenery. I'm not sure those are the latest renderings. The designers really heard that part of our commentary on the park.

[Virtual Urban Vision]

Originally Posted by RAlossi

^ LA's "Central Park" is Griffith Park, though of course it serves a different purpose. This isn't meant to be Central Park, nor should any comparisons be drawn between the two. If it were to be equivalent, it would have to stretch from 1st Street all the way to Adams.

By the way, I attended the meetings and voiced my concern over the amount of hardscaping vs. greenery. I'm not sure those are the latest renderings. The designers really heard that part of our commentary on the park.

^^^^Agreed

[pesto]

For the money spent with little net addition of park space, in an area whre no one lives, I can think of 10 other places DT where land could have been bought, a basic park put in, and developers would have been excited to put up new buildings around them when financing comes back.

I doubt that what is proposed for civic plaza is going to attract anyone. What about it is so much better than what is there now (assuming the renderings are accurate)?

Park 101 is very different. It eliminates an eyesore and barrier (the fwy) and links together Olvera St. and Union Stations with the Music Center, Civic Center and the core.

[sopas ej]

I don't live downtown but I do go there often, and I think if anything a redone Civic Center Park will only be a good thing; if it doesn't get much use, at least it will look better than what exists now. I'm really not feeling the comparison to New York's Central Park (which to me means a place to be avoided at night); I liken it more to Washington DC's Mall, albeit on a much smaller scale, of course.

[Quixote]

Here's a rendering of the most recent schematic design I could find...



Looking at the site plan, the Hill Street entrance/exist ramps concern me the most because they negatively impact the flow/circulation.

[JDRCRASH]

^ That looks much more promising.

Originally Posted by RAlossi

^ LA's "Central Park" is Griffith Park, though of course it serves a different purpose. This isn't meant to be Central Park, nor should any comparisons be drawn between the two.

The park will become the new "Central Park" of Los Angeles and will be the scene of many citywide celebrations as well as daily events.

http://www.grandavenuecommittee.org/overview.html

If it were to be equivalent, it would have to stretch from 1st Street all the way to Adams.

Actual size has nothing to do with it.

[RAlossi]

^ No, but one of the reasons for Central Park being such a vital part of Manhattan is its frontage to many different neighborhoods. The Civic Park will connect to a few county/city buildings.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

The two county buildings MUST BE removed in order for the Grand Ave park to reach its full potential.

The two imposing county buildings block access and sight lines.

No good.

[colemonkee]

^ Actually, if you just got rid of the buildings on the south side (County Courts, Law Library, old foundation between Broadway and Spring), the park would reach first street and have more than adequate sight lines. Plus it would be about 40% larger.

Those parking ramps have to go, though. They really are bad. Like, Pershing Square bad. You have to go and stand on Hill Street to really get a good perspective, but they effectively cut the park in half. You have to go around them to either side and they completely cut off normal sight lines into the park. I'm guessing it was too expensive to reconfigure or remove them.

[RAlossi]

Agreed, colemonkee. Though luckily the Grand Avenue twin ramps appear to be getting reconfigured.

[Quixote]

Every building currently lining the park should go save for maybe the Richard Neutra-designed Hall of Records building.

[dktshb]

The park is essentially the same as it is now except for the extension to city hall. The problem with this area is that it is too far from most of the Downtown populations in the Historic Core and Little Tokyo. The park is surrounded by government buildings so after 5:00 that area is dead. They really need to get some residential closer for that park to work. We know those court houses and law library aren’t going anywhere so the park won't even be seen from most all streets. Another failed attempt to get desperately needed green space downtown IMO.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

Originally Posted by colemonkee

^ Actually, if you just got rid of the buildings on the south side (County Courts, Law Library, old foundation between Broadway and Spring), the park would reach first street and have more than adequate sight lines. Plus it would be about 40% larger.

Those parking ramps have to go, though. They really are bad. Like, Pershing Square bad. You have to go and stand on Hill Street to really get a good perspective, but they effectively cut the park in half. You have to go around them to either side and they completely cut off normal sight lines into the park. I'm guessing it was too expensive to reconfigure or remove them.

Not even close to getting good sight lines. Trust me, I've been inside the current park between the County Buildings.

Plus, the future Grand Avenue project would have no direct access to the park, which I think is important. You can't cross the street and go directly into the park. You have to walk around that ugly ass county courthouse. Plus, who the hell is even going to know there's a park behind that building?

Also, the cathedral has no direct access to the park because the Kenneth Hahn building sits like a fortress between it and the park.

Once again I say, "No good."

[Hubris]

Lots of info on the future park here: http://www.learcenter.org/html/projects/?cm=grand