[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

Btw, if anyone is bored enough on July 5th; they can see me present at COC public hearing (not sure when). But the hearing is broadcast on the website. But trust me; it's nothing special lol.

What is the weblink? Just remember that there are a lot of critics on this forum (I am sure that we will take it easy on you though).

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

What is the weblink? Just remember that there are a lot of critics on this forum (I am sure that we will take it easy on you though).

City of Calgary public hearing is viewable from the City's website (www.calgary.ca). There should be a button on the site to click for a live webcast.

I've seen the preliminary agenda for the public hearing component; but I can't remember where I was on the agenda. My stuff is usually pretty easy.

[halifaxboyns]

I was just noticing that 'friends of the view' wrote a press release dated June 18 20010 lol. Wow; they are well organized for the future!

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

I was just noticing that 'friends of the view' wrote a press release dated June 18 20010 lol. Wow; they are well organized for the future!

They will never go away! We can't take them lightly though, I see that another person signed their petition last week.

[sdm]

I got to admit, the new report (albeit done in 2006-2007) by WHW architects of the expansion of the existing Trade Centre is better looking then the current proposal (my opinion of course). Doing this may allow for us to get a new Metro centre, which to me kills two birds with one stone.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by sdm

I got to admit, the new report (albeit done in 2006-2007) by WHW architects of the expansion of the existing Trade Centre is better looking then the current proposal (my opinion of course). Doing this may allow for us to get a new Metro centre, which to me kills two birds with one stone.

Those nighttime pics of the proposed MCII at Cogswell are SEXY! :-)

It is a valid point that I have yet to hear as part of the debate what the future of the MC site is. These issues are so integrally linked, and you would think that debating what should happen with a new conference centre is directly linked overall to a plan for the old site.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by beyeas

Those nighttime pics of the proposed MCII at Cogswell are SEXY! :-)

It is a valid point that I have yet to hear as part of the debate what the future of the MC site is. These issues are so integrally linked, and you would think that debating what should happen with a new conference centre is directly linked overall to a plan for the old site.

[worldlyhaligonian]

I would prefer a number of taller towers on the cogswell site rather than the MCII... although the design is pretty good.

FYI: https://conventioncentreinfo.com/documents/studies/
The two links at the bottom.

I really like the Commonwealth stadium renderings... I think something like that would be perfect for Willow Park.

[fenwick16]

This might be a dumb question but instead of demolishing the Metro Centre, rebuilding a convention centre in its place and building a new Metro Centre II at the Cogswell Interchange for about $300 million dollars (their rough estimate), why didn't they just estimate the cost of a new convention centre at the Cogswell Interchange? Then they wouldn't have to wait for a new Metro Centre II to be built prior to starting the new convention centre and the cost would be about half. I think that this is essentially what they did, except that instead of building the convention centre at the Cogswell Interchange they chose the Herald Lands. It seems like building the convention centre at the Cogswell Interchange was not considered (building a new Metro Centre II at that location was considered).

The one point the strikes me, is that this report was the basis for the Rank Inc. proposal - https://conventioncentreinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Feasibility-Study-Vol-1.pdf . It seems to be a comprehensively planned report by WHW Architects. My only criticism is that instead of looking at 15 different locations for a new Metro Centre II, why didn't they look at 15 sites for a new convention centre instead?

As far as the future of the current Metro Centre goes, the most logical choice is to do nothing with at at all, just keep it as the Metro Centre and either use the WTCC-I for smaller conventions or convert the WTCC-I to offices. The Metro Centre does not rely on the WTCC-I for its existence (in fact the Metro Centre I was built first, and then the WTCC-I was added afterward)

[sdm]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

This might be a dumb question but instead of demolishing the Metro Centre, rebuilding a convention centre in its place and building a new Metro Centre II at the Cogswell Interchange for about $300 million dollars (their rough estimate), why didn't they just estimate the cost of a new convention centre at the Cogswell Interchange? Then they wouldn't have to wait for a new Metro Centre II to be built prior to starting the new convention centre and the cost would be about half. I think that this is essentially what they did, except that instead of building the convention centre at the Cogswell Interchange they chose the Herald Lands. It seems like building the convention centre at the Cogswell Interchange was not considered (building a new Metro Centre II at that location was considered).

The one point the strikes me, is that this report was the basis for the Rank Inc. proposal - https://conventioncentreinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Feasibility-Study-Vol-1.pdf . It seems to be a comprehensively planned report by WHW Architects. My only criticism is that instead of looking at 15 different locations for a new Metro Centre II, why didn't they look at 15 sites for a new convention centre instead?

As far as the future of the current Metro Centre goes, the most logical choice is to do nothing with at at all, just keep it as the Metro Centre and either use the WTCC-I for smaller conventions or convert the WTCC-I to offices. The Metro Centre does not rely on the WTCC-I for its existence (in fact the Metro Centre I was built first, and then the WTCC-I was added afterward)

converting the existing trade centre to offices is not very feasible due to the depth of the building and exiting issues.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by sdm

converting the existing trade centre to offices is not very feasible due to the depth of the building and exiting issues.

It could be converted to residential. In fact, leaving it vacant or using it for smaller conventions would be far cheaper than tearing the Metro Centre down and expanding the current WTCC. (since a replacement to the Metro Centre would be required).

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

It could be converted to residential. In fact, leaving it vacant or using it for smaller conventions would be far cheaper than tearing the Metro Centre down and expanding the current WTCC. (since a replacement to the Metro Centre would be required).

I think that instead of tearing down the MC, they should build the Nova Centre next door and renovate the MC with the rink facing east - west and into where the current wtcc is.

People have said its impossible, but I think its totally possible.

[fenwick16]

Turning the rink around and renovating will likely require tearing the current Metro Centre/WTCC down and rebuilding another Metro Centre II in its place. I have no doubt that a 15,000 seat arena could be built at the site of the Metro Centre/WTCC. In my opinion, the question is whether or not the Halifax area needs a 15,000 seat arena. If not, then such drastic measures are not required.

It would be interesting to see a HRM wide survey taken to see which people would prefer - a 15,000 seat Metro Centre II (I think $125 million is a realistic price for an economically priced, no-frills Metro Centre II) or a 15,000 seat first stage of an outdoor stadium (likely about $40 million for an economically priced no-frills facility).

[MonctonRad]

You already have a decent sized arena (10,000 seats). You would be better served spending your money on a new 20,000 seat (or so) stadium. This would do more to diversify your entertainment venues.

The new convention centre should be built on the Herald Lands. This is the simplest thing to do.

Save the Cogswell Interchange for (future) downtown office towers. The NIMBY's won't complain about them down there because they don't affect the viewplanes.

By mixing up the convention centre, new metro centre and the Cogswell interchange projects, this just makes the whole situation way too complex and confuses people (me included).

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

You already have a decent sized arena (10,000 seats). You would be better served spending your money on a new 20,000 seat (or so) stadium. This would do more to diversify your entertainment venues.

The new convention centre should be built on the Herald Lands. This is the simplest thing to do.

Save the Cogswell Interchange for (future) downtown office towers. The NIMBY's won't complain about them down there because they don't affect the viewplanes.

By mixing up the convention centre, new metro centre and the Cogswell interchange projects, this just makes the whole situation way too complex and confuses people (me included).

It certainly had me confused. I thought that one plan was to put the convention centre near the Cogswell.

[Keith P.]

I don't know this, but I suspect this was Fast Freddy MacGillivray's attempt to get a new MC built, hence all the discussion about where to put it, with the convention center analysis almost an afterthought. It is interesting to read though. They did a lot of work and I wonder what this all cost. Right at the end of the report there is an illustration of an arena downtown that is just very nicely done -- looks almost like a stylized ship.

[terrynorthend]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I don't know this, but I suspect this was Fast Freddy MacGillivray's attempt to get a new MC built, hence all the discussion about where to put it, with the convention center analysis almost an afterthought. It is interesting to read though. They did a lot of work and I wonder what this all cost. Right at the end of the report there is an illustration of an arena downtown that is just very nicely done -- looks almost like a stylized ship.

I actually like that proposal far more than what is being planned. They did a fantastic redesign of the current Metro Centre into an expanded Convention Centre. The facades are much more open and interesting. And having the main exhibit hall open onto a broad and open street like Brunswick allows plenty of access. The Metro Centre II looks great, is a good sized facility, and leaves plenty of room for tower development around it. Having it directly across from the Casino on a re-aligned Lower Water street is genius. I could imagine a pedway connection and a great synergy between CNS and MC2, bringing in great entertainment.

What we will have instead is a dirty, cramped, old Metro Centre for God knows how long, a weird and underused old WTC Centre building, and a new convention centre that is shoe-horned unto the herald lands, with its main entrance looming over a narrow, tiny one-way Argyle street. It will especially suck in the summer, when half of Argyle is lost to restaurant patios. And lets not even THINK about denying those establishments their patios. I spend many a summer afternoon and evening enjoying myself there, and I suspect many others do too.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by terrynorthend

I actually like that proposal far more than what is being planned. They did a fantastic redesign of the current Metro Centre into an expanded Convention Centre. The facades are much more open and interesting. And having the main exhibit hall open onto a broad and open street like Brunswick allows plenty of access. The Metro Centre II looks great, is a good sized facility, and leaves plenty of room for tower development around it. Having it directly across from the Casino on a re-aligned Lower Water street is genius. I could imagine a pedway connection and a great synergy between CNS and MC2, bringing in great entertainment.

What we will have instead is a dirty, cramped, old Metro Centre for God knows how long, a weird and underused old WTC Centre building, and a new convention centre that is shoe-horned unto the herald lands, with its main entrance looming over a narrow, tiny one-way Argyle street. It will especially suck in the summer, when half of Argyle is lost to restaurant patios. And lets not even THINK about denying those establishments their patios. I spend many a summer afternoon and evening enjoying myself there, and I suspect many others do too.

I agree with Terry on this one...after reading the report (well not the whole thing, but most of it) - I loved the redesign of the WTCC much more than the Nova Centre. Don't get me wrong - I'd be happy either way; as I believe any development in downtwon to help the WTCC is important.

That being said - this proposal seems to kill two birds with one stone and actually supported my thought on a stadium over at Alderney Landing (with of course some concerns related to parking and design). I am concerned that the proposed Nova Centre (now having had more time to think and look at a comparison) might overpower that block; if not done well.

This report gives some good ideas and locations that follow some logical thinking. If NSP hadn't redone the power plant; it would've been a good site for MC-2; as is Alderney (I personally think Halifax can survive with the MC-2 being in Dartmouth; after all we are a REGION).

I don't agree with the reports thoughts on MC-2 going in the Cogswell lands - this is one of few spots where high rise office towers can occur - but the trademart site might be a workable option. I also like the idea of adding more convention space onto the podium of Scotia Square. In my mind; if you renovated MC-1 into a new WTCC space (combined with a podium addition) and then moved the MC to the Trademart site - it seems like a logical flow to me (Metro Centre, Scotia Square, WTCC).

I'm particularly impressed with the exterior redesign too.

Unfortunately this stadium style only really deals with hockey and basketball events and not football. But if you used the trademart - you could save the hearld lands for another stadium style development for football? Just a thought.

[halifaxboyns]

I meant to add this to my post - this stadium came up in a discussion about the Saddledome in the Calgary SSP section.

I like the brick design - which I think might fit well into downtown if used for the Herald site (something along the same lines).

[fenwick16]

Certainly, the WTCC-II proposed for the Metro Centre location is the superior proposal. However, this isn't really a renovation; it is a demolition and redevelopment of the Metro Centre/WTCC-I. In a perfect world there would be enough money to do all of this. But the new WTCC-II and Metro Centre-II was estimated to be $300 million, which is almost 3 times the Herald Centre proposal for a WTCC-II alone. This decision was based on economics not design. In Alberta or Ontario, where there is lots of money then this proposal might have had a chance of proceeding. If such luxuries are really wanted in the HRM, then people will have to become very pro-development and throw caution to the wind (it is hard to imagine such a change at this time - isn't that why the NDP party was elected, i.e. to reduce the deficit).