Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

May I ask a question, please: What does BARSTA stand for?

Stands for: Business and Residents Association for Sustainable Transportation Alternatives

Sounds like a lobby group.. badly disguised as concerned citizens and businesses in the Broadway area.

Much like the nefarious Skytrain lobby.

[tybuilding]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Our good friend is at it again:

http://railforthevalley.wordpress.com/20...ail-not-skytrain-down-business-corridor/

I left a comment about construction woes for the Toronto LRT line but it was deleted.

I like Donna Dobo's comment.. she wants it all. Like one of those old ladies at Safeway "I want all of my groceries in one bag... but not too heavy!!"

I made the following comment. It will be interesting to see if it remains:

To be certain with any transit project there will be compromises made by the businesses along Broadway for an underground project or an at grade LRT system. Underground will have to deal with holes for stations for a few years, either a cut an cover method (such as Cambie) or TBM (such as in downtown) or disruption from surface construction for likely a 2 year period along the portions of the route.

Surface transit will also need to give space to the LRT system. I measured Toronto's St. Clair Street and its dimensions are similar to Broadway so it is possible with a few exceptions. Toronto St. Clair street has an LRT in the middle of the road with an 8-9m right of way depending if it a station or not. The station platforms at intersections are opposite sides of the intersections. Overall dimensions of St. Clair is 26m from curb to curb with room for a platform in one direction, 4 travel lanes and one turn lane. There are 4 travel lanes for cars (or 2 and 2 with parking).

Broadway would be similar. Broadway at Oak measures 28m so it will fit well there. Broadway at Granville measures 24 m there so the left turn lane will have to be taken away there.

Overall Broadway will turn into a 4 lane road with no parking or a 2 lane road with parking (or restrictions based on time) in the busy stretch.

Further west at (west of McDonald) the roadway narrows. Currently at McDonald there are 4 travel lanes at the intersection or reduced to 2 lanes with parking away from major intersections. At McDonald the street measures 16.6m. With an LRT and station there would be 7m remaining for 2 lanes of travel with no turn lanes remaining. Left turns will need to be restricted along this entire stretch and the lights may need to be required to only be green in one direction.
In between blocks the roadway measures 17m in parking areas, with 8m right of way this will leave 9m or 2 travel lanes and one parking lane so one side of parking will be reduced from the current 2 sides.

[mr.x]

Today:



Donna Dobo, Director WBBA Says:
June 24, 2010 at 10:31 am

For the record:
West Broadway businesses have voted in favour of surface, electric transit transit with stops every 500 to 600 metres, for the proposed UBC line. We will not survive if we can not be seen.

There may be a number of possible technologies that fit. A modern Euro tram is one of them. We are concerned that Translink is studying a heavier version of light rail that is more than we need, is the wrong scale for the neighbourhood, and more expensive than necessary. Whatever technology is chosen there must be a plan to assist the businesses to survive the construction phase.

Thank you to Rail for the Valley for ongoing coverage on this issue that is vital to sustainable neighbourhoods.





And also, one of zwei's responses:

I’m sorry KC but you haven’t a clue what you are talking about. Issues of St. Clair LRT were corrected by a chap in Toronto who knows a whole lot more about that issue, than me. Local knowledge trumps opinion from Vancouver. As for your other comments, you are so, so dated; in the 21st century transit is consumer driven. To be successful transit must be built with the consumer in mind. Not so with SkyTrain and RAV where the official line has always been: “You will get SkyTrain (RAV) whether you like it or not.”




Is it just me or is he now simply saying "no" to things without any explanation, not even asinine ones....anyone can do that.

I like how he said we need to be consumer driven, with regards to his whole asinine "wheee I can see the stores!". Well, the consumer likes to get to his destination a bit more quickly than what he claims...

[The_Henry_Man]

This is my response to Donna Dobo's post on RailfortheValley website:

-------

Donna Dobo wrote: ".....We want accessible surface electric transit that could be rapid bus or modern euro style light rail. Make it attractive to local traffic, sightseers and faster than the B-line for the long distance commuters.

We need the stops to be more frequent that the planned locations for skytrain stations, which a kilometre apart."

Donna, there's already a transit option that caters to local traffic, with stops at every 2-3 blocks that encourages passengers to check out stores on Broadway, and that's called THE #9 TROLLEY BUS. LRT on Broadway makes ABSOLUTELY no improvements over the current 99B, as Broadway cannot possibly allow LRT to have exclusive LRT that doesn't impede traffic in order to achieve speeds of over 70km/h. If you think the Broadway LRT on the surface on achieve speeds that's faster than Skytrain, you need to get your head out of the sand.

--------

I thought Donna has businesses on Broadway and is quite knowledge of areas around her.

[wrenegade]

About the only reason I'd like to see Gordo stick around is so that he can jam Skytrain down the throats of these idiots on West Broadway. Where is that quote/article from Mr. X? I'd love to leave a comment. How are these people so selfish to think of West Broadway as their own "neighbourhood". It's a major transportation corridor and the 2nd largest employment centre in Metro Vancouver (possibly the province). A couple billion dollar transit line isn't going to built to aid small business on West Broadway, it's to transport tens of thousands of people across the region to school and work, to the largest hospital in the province, etc (neighbourhood shopping is WAAAAAY down the list). All that aside, the alignment is likely going to be Along west 10th, and even a surface tram would create traffic "issues" at best, and a full-on nightmare at worst.

[punface]

Any business I see associated with this BARSTA nonsense is not getting a dime from me. Is that wrong?

[mr.x]

In his most recent blog post, I like how zwei says that if SkyTrain is built they will get rid of the trolleys and replace them with very polluting diesels for local service.....it seems as if he has forgotten that we already have polluting diesels on Broadway. It's called the 99.

These people are f-ing nuts.



Anyhow, with the Evergreen Line as SkyTrain and with the Canada Line's capacity issues it's almost certain that the Broadway West extension will be SkyTrain. It'll be expensive, but it's not like we need to find the money for it today...it won't be for a few years, after Evergreen. The only question is where SkyTrain on the Broadway corridor will stop (any of those alternate LRT proposals don't have a chance in hell imo).

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Stands for: Business and Residents Association for Sustainable Transportation Alternatives

Sounds like a lobby group.. badly disguised as concerned citizens and businesses in the Broadway area.

Much like the nefarious Skytrain lobby.

Speaking of the "Skytrain Lobby" I feel that I'm owed a few thousand dollars. I sure could use it right about now

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by mr.x

Is it just me or is he now simply saying "no" to things without any explanation, not even asinine ones....anyone can do that.

I like how he said we need to be consumer driven, with regards to his whole asinine "wheee I can see the stores!". Well, the consumer likes to get to his destination a bit more quickly than what he claims...

He always says that he has consulated an "expert" of some kind. Yet he never names that expert and if you ask him for the name he won't give it.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by djh

JB, I think you need to cut and paste your post, verbatim, to the RailForTheValley and the Province threads.
You've hit the nail squarely on the head.

The only other thing that would make your post perfect would be some illustrations to show people what it looks like at certain stages of disruption (e.g., how many lanes would be closed-off, locations of storage, machinery, equipment, etc). That would be enough to show people who aren't quite getting their head around the issue - At-Grade Is Very Disruptive Too!

Done.

Waiting to hear the sound of 'ding ding' heads exploding.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by awvan

About the only reason I'd like to see Gordo stick around is so that he can jam Skytrain down the throats of these idiots on West Broadway. Where is that quote/article from Mr. X? I'd love to leave a comment. How are these people so selfish to think of West Broadway as their own "neighbourhood". It's a major transportation corridor and the 2nd largest employment centre in Metro Vancouver (possibly the province). A couple billion dollar transit line isn't going to built to aid small business on West Broadway, it's to transport tens of thousands of people across the region to school and work, to the largest hospital in the province, etc (neighbourhood shopping is WAAAAAY down the list). All that aside, the alignment is likely going to be Along west 10th, and even a surface tram would create traffic "issues" at best, and a full-on nightmare at worst.

I think when Gordo knows he's retiring or can't get re-elected, he can force SkyTrain to UBC through and not care if any BC Libs get re-elected in Vancouver. He may cause the next Lib candidate in Point Grey to lose their election, but he'll be enjoying his martinis & pension in Maui by then.
Of course, he'll have to time it so that construction is well under way before he leaves so that the next gov't can't simply cancel the Skytrain to UBC. Having it structured as a P3 would make it harder to pull the plug, otherwise the private partners would become gun-shy of doing any future P3s.

[Mininari]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/06/25/bc-translink-no-expansion-report.html


Heres an idea; in the spirit of 'jumping the queue,' any chance that Translink's being broke would result in the "promised" federal and provincial money going to constructing the UBC line instead?

Boy would that ruffle some feathers...

[mr.x]

THE ZWEI QUOTE OF THE DAY:


Remember, transit is built to move people and it must stop to satisfy customer needs.



FML.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

I think when Gordo knows he's retiring or can't get re-elected, he can force SkyTrain to UBC through and not care if any BC Libs get re-elected in Vancouver. He may cause the next Lib candidate in Point Grey to lose their election, but he'll be enjoying his martinis & pension in Maui by then.
Of course, he'll have to time it so that construction is well under way before he leaves so that the next gov't can't simply cancel the Skytrain to UBC. Having it structured as a P3 would make it harder to pull the plug, otherwise the private partners would become gun-shy of doing any future P3s.

Well, the next provincial election is in 2013...are we really going to start Broadway West that soon?

[madmigs]

Originally Posted by mr.x

Well, the next provincial election is in 2013...are we really going to start Broadway West that soon?

Let's hope!

[huenthar]

Brand new argument against BARSTA:

(drumroll...)

.
.
.

I hope BARSTA members west of MacDonald enjoying today's Greek Festival (and all the extra business and, more importantly, exposure) realize they will never get to have a street festival on Broadway ever again with a surface rail line...

(ka-ching!)

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by mr.x

Well, the next provincial election is in 2013...are we really going to start Broadway West that soon?

The Phase II consulting (Be Part of the Plan) is supposed to be done in 2011, so that gives Gordo & company and Gregor & company some time to do the political spin on building the UBC line. It may be announced before or during the 2013 election and hopefully Evergreen will be under construction at the time so PoCo and Coq won't go ballisitic (you like THEM more then ME!)

If Gordo & company lose, the next BC Gov't may delay or cancel the UBC Line, but with Evergreen under construction they will have to let it get finished.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

The Phase II consulting (Be Part of the Plan) is supposed to be done in 2011, so that gives Gordo & company and Gregor & company some time to do the political spin on building the UBC line. It may be announced before or during the 2013 election and hopefully Evergreen will be under construction at the time so PoCo and Coq won't go ballisitic (you like THEM more then ME!)

If Gordo & company lose, the next BC Gov't may delay or cancel the UBC Line, but with Evergreen under construction they will have to let it get finished.

The NDP certainly talk the talk on public transit. I'm not sure the UBC line is one of the things "at risk" if they somehow manage to take over.

[mr.x]

^ well, the candidate the NDP put in West Point Grey last time was Mel....one of his "platforms" was against SkyTrain for the same asinine reasons, and eversince he has been working the the LRT nuts.

With that said, the Evergreen Line will make it much more necessary to have Broadway West as SkyTrain.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by mr.x

^ well, the candidate the NDP put in West Point Grey last time was Mel....one of his "platforms" was against SkyTrain for the same asinine reasons, and eversince he has been working the the LRT nuts.

With that said, the Evergreen Line will make it much more necessary to have Broadway West as SkyTrain.

I thought Mel ran as an independent. Boy the NDP are desperate.

The good thing in the case of transit through the West Side is that these large capital projects are provincially driven anyway, regardless of party.

The bad part of that is a half-baked M-Line by Glen Clark through a bunch of NDP ridings. You can argue it was the first segment of a UBC to Poco line, but still, UBC to Broadway or downtown to the Airport should have been built first.