Metro Vancouver Bike & Pedestrian Discussion

[Porfiry]

Originally Posted by whatnext

By replacing the stop signs they've actually made it a more dangerous crossing for pedestrians and bikes, not to mention more of a freeway. I noticed a similarly idiotic "island" in Kerrisdale on 41st, which forces vehicle traffic into a slalom like dodge around the barricades. Well done, Mayor Moonbeam!

I thought you liked freeways. What changed your mind?

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Porfiry

I thought you liked freeways. What changed your mind?

Nothing, but apparently the spandex has cut off circulation to the brains of the cyclist-bureaucrat who designed these. The cyclist interviewed for the story even said the design was worse than before. A classic case of Vision Vancouver trying to fix something that wasn't broken, all for a little greenwashing.

[jlousa]

I didn't like the 4 way stop before, but the new diverator is even worse and I've only been by there a couple of times since it's been installed. Wonder if a traffic circle wouldn't have made a better solution.

[racc]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Nothing, but apparently the spandex has cut off circulation to the brains of the cyclist-bureaucrat who designed these. The cyclist interviewed for the story even said the design was worse than before. A classic case of Vision Vancouver trying to fix something that wasn't broken, all for a little greenwashing.

Chill. It is a trial. If it is not working, I expect a better solution will be found.

[Porfiry]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Nothing, but apparently the spandex has cut off circulation to the brains of the cyclist-bureaucrat who designed these. The cyclist interviewed for the story even said the design was worse than before. A classic case of Vision Vancouver trying to fix something that wasn't broken, all for a little greenwashing.

It's a cookie-cutter design used on all bike routes (identical things have been on the Off-Broadway route forever -- on far busier roads -- with no apparent issues). No disrespect, but I don't believe for one second that you care about what cyclists think. This design allows for free-flow of car traffic, which should make you happy -- if it doesn't, then obviously nothing will satisfy you.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I didn't like the 4 way stop before, but the new diverator is even worse and I've only been by there a couple of times since it's been installed. Wonder if a traffic circle wouldn't have made a better solution.

I'm assuming you meant "would've" instead of "wouldn't." A traffic circle would work, but this traffic circle must be a larger one rather than the small roundabouts in order to accommodate the traffic that exists on Elliott.

On a different note, check out the Danish Pavilion in the Expo:

Video Link

[worldwide]

anyone else find it ironic that critical mass events are still happening even though the city is investing so much in bike infrastructure right now. critical mass is a protest to raise awareness of cycling and to push for better facilities.

[WBC]

Originally Posted by worldwide

anyone else find it ironic that critical mass events are still happening even though the city is investing so much in bike infrastructure right now. critical mass is a protest to raise awareness of cycling and to push for better facilities.

Critical mass is more about the protest for protest's sake then anything else. I remember when I was a student at SFU a week would not go by without a small, but vocal group of students protesting something that had rarely anything to do with them (or real life). There are simply people who like to do that and have some fun that way. Everybody has their own cup of tea I guess.

[agrant]

Reminds me of the old nuclear war marches back in the 70s to mid 80s that used to go from Kits, across the Burrard Bridge to downtown. The bike protest pales in comparison.

[SpongeG]

its a chance for them to socialize

[SFUVancouver]

I honestly think that there will always be a segment of society that truly enjoys breaking the rules in some way. And thank goodness, too. It certainly can be annoying if you are inconvenienced but when these people are involved in movements they act as an important counterbalance to the more grounded part of the movement and help define the continuum of the issue.

Critical Mass started with a single purpose, besides being fun for those participating, and that is to take possession of road space, however briefly, that has typically been unsafe and unwelcoming to bicycles. Doing so visually illustrates to drivers and the larger public that there are a lot of people on bicycles on the roads. Typically cyclists are nearly invisible to motorists since conventional roads are not designed to include bicycles. Critical Mass co-opts the safety technique of cyclists riding together to increase the group's visibility to motorists and scales it up by attracting hundreds or thousands of people.

It is really worth noting that several thousand people on bicycles can easily fit in the same space as a hundred or so cars, but that's not my main point.

By briefly occupying the road en masse the conventional power relationship of bicycle and motor vehicle is reversed and it is cyclists that control the road instead of motorists. The inconvenience experienced by motorists is minor compared to the ongoing siege mentality of cyclists whose safety is in jeopardy on a daily basis because of the design of our roads and the corresponding attention paid by motorists. It is from this position of ongoing risk that some cyclists participate in protests, some overreact when there is a close call with a motorist, while the super majority just keep cycling and try to help change things by just being present on the roads. Many cyclists are engaged professionals who remember two-wheelers when working in their particular field, others take it a step further and utilitze their specialized knowledge by volunteering on advisory committies or lobby groups, and a small handful even go into politics and become the very elected officials who can actually change things and help make our roads safer for everyone.

Critical mass as a concept is an apt name too in that once there is a critical mass of something, anything, the normal rules can be shifted and behaviour modified. This is true of very large crowds, which behave and occupy space differently than smaller crowds in normal settings. This is true of people at a sporting event or concert where shouting, dressing funny, and going a little crazy is all expected. And it is true of any other protest where strength in numbers allows people to challenge authority and say their piece.

I know lots of people who ride in Critical Mass and I know lots of people who try to foster change in different ways. I do not ride in Critical Mass but I do ride my bicycle everywhere, and genuinely do obey all the laws. (I'm that guy who stops at each stop sign and admonishes the cyclists around me who do not) I am a dues paying member of the VACC, I write the odd email and do surveys, and remember to include my perspective of a cyclist in my volunteer roles, but mostly I mainly just ride and be seen and counted.

[racc]

Originally Posted by WBC

Critical mass is more about the protest for protest's sake then anything else. I remember when I was a student at SFU a week would not go by without a small, but vocal group of students protesting something that had rarely anything to do with them (or real life). There are simply people who like to do that and have some fun that way. Everybody has their own cup of tea I guess.

Critical mass is really not a protest, it is more of a celebration or a parade than anything else. For some, it is kinda a party on wheels.

[SpongeG]

it lost its purpose

i know a few people who participated and supported it a few years ago but they have become disillusioned with teh direction it has taken lately and do not support it anymore

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I didn't like the 4 way stop before, but the new diverator is even worse and I've only been by there a couple of times since it's been installed. Wonder if a traffic circle wouldn't have made a better solution.

Actually I feel keep the divider but install a ped activated light. The problem from what I'm understanding is people driving along Elliot/Claredon are not stopping for the pedestrians and cyclists and or are driving too fast to be able to stop.

I'm sure a lot of people who live along 45th are happy the dividers are there. I know when I drove I used to use that route to get over to Metrotown. Those dividers have basically stopped that. So there should be less traffic along 45th.

[worldwide]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

its a chance for them to socialize

I haven't been in over a year, but that's why I would go...

thanks for the great post sfu van. do you really stop for stop signs though?

[SFUVancouver]

^ Yep. Boyscout.

[deasine]

Based on the popular Velo System in Paris, TfL is now installing their own Cycle Hire public bike system. Do the docking stations look familiar to you?

Originally Posted by nito

Cycle Hire Scheme

Following on from the highly successful Velib scheme in Paris, workers are currently installing cycle racks across the city in preperation for the opening on 30th July. Usage will be free for use under 30mins and is being sponsored by Barclays. Pictures taken by Ian Buckland

[SpongeG]

I was on cambie the other day - traffic was awful - but some stupid girl was on a bike riding very close on teh road to parked cars and traffic and eventually she went on the sidewalk - but a block to the east is a street designated as a bike road - why doesn't she just use that?

[officedweller]

Because the City - in its wisdom - has now created bike lanes on the busy arterial known as Cambie Street (just not through the village (because they need the parking spaces).
It reflects a change in thinking - from having cyclists on safer quieter streets (with signals at major street crossings) to having them in the midst of traffic on busy arterials (likely necessitating more segregated bike lanes).

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by officedweller

It reflects a change in thinking - from having cyclists on safer quieter streets (with signals at major street crossings) to having them in the midst of traffic on busy arterials (likely necessitating more segregated bike lanes).

I guess it's a kind of a trade-off. The bike network on the side streets is terrific and I really, really appreciate it. But even so, the lanes aren't dedicated to bikes and so you do still have to mix with traffic. There are some streets (like 45th Avenue in East Van) where this is problematic because the traffic volume is high enough that it causes frequent conflicts when cars try to pass in opposing directions and you happen to be in the same place at the same time.

With the reconstruction of south Cambie street following the Canada Line work it was a perfect opportunity to add enough road width to accommodate a lane specifically for cyclists. It really would have been a missed opportunity not to do it.

I like to use those lanes when heading to Richmond or back over the Canada Line bridge because it's a direct route, I don't have to worry about traffic conflicts (for the most part), and because the grade up from the river doesn't seem to be quite as bad as it is on many of the other streets.