Calgary Public Transit II

[freeweed]

I hate to be a single-issue voter, but if McIver seriously campaigned on the SE LRT being priority #1, he'd likely have my vote.

[Calgarian]

I would love to see the SE LRT go ahead,It should have been done before the WLRT.

[MalcolmTucker]

Just a matter of money - with P3 Canada I could see a project being $700 million Green Trip, $300 million concessionaire and $330 million federal government (P3 Canada).

If the Green Trip schedule was formalized, you could announce a tender process by the fall without any extra money.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by Ferreth

Very strange - I only saw the first paragraph of your post until I quoted it in reply- anyone seeing only the first paragraph?
[edit] Now it's all there. I must be 'zmoking the bad shit tonight.

I've seen that and other assorted oddities happen on occasion.

[mooky]

I really think the SE LRT is going to be a non-issue in the fact that with the Green Trip money announced if its allocated where most people think it will be, its a great start at financing and I highly doubt any of the mainstream candidates will campaign actively against the SE LRT .... but I could be surprised I guess.

[Calgarian]

So what's the plan for the SE LRT again? is it supposed to run under Stephen Ave?

[mersar]

No. SE LRT will run under 10th ave starting east of Macleod until it turns north at 2nd Street, go below Gulf Canada Square parkade and run north to Eau Claire.

[DizzyEdge]

So the Stephen Ave underground is needed for the future North line?

[mooky]

Long term:
Stephen's ave LRT is meant for NW -> S LRT
7th ave will remain for NE -> W LRT

SE LRT will go underground at 10th ave as merser stated, though I've read in recent comments, I believe from McIver, maybe someone else, that in the short term it will perhaps stop there until they get the money to do the tunnelling which is one of the most expensive parts of the SE LRT project. That would be the way to go to get it going in the shorter term.

It right now is slated to terminus at Eau Claire, though most people think the current bone-headed configuration of the LRT up the creek beside deerfoot is shortsighted when a major catchment basin for the NC LRT is already established in the BRT 301 north route. If the city and Calgary transit pull their heads out of their collective butts, they will see that Edmonton Trail, or even better, center street are better routes for a NC LRT line which would be an obvious place to continue the SE line through Eau Claire and up Center street in a tunnel (grade issues here are yet to be determined)

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by mooky

Long term:
Stephen's ave LRT is meant for NW -> S LRT
7th ave will remain for NE -> W LRT

SE LRT will go underground at 10th ave as merser stated, though I've read in recent comments, I believe from McIver, maybe someone else, that in the short term it will perhaps stop there until they get the money to do the tunnelling which is one of the most expensive parts of the SE LRT project. That would be the way to go to get it going in the shorter term.

It right now is slated to terminus at Eau Claire, though most people think the current bone-headed configuration of the LRT up the creek beside deerfoot is shortsighted when a major catchment basin for the NC LRT is already established in the BRT 301 north route. If the city and Calgary transit pull their heads out of their collective butts, they will see that Edmonton Trail, or even better, center street are better routes for a NC LRT line which would be an obvious place to continue the SE line through Eau Claire and up Center street in a tunnel (grade issues here are yet to be determined)

I think it was Bronco who made the comments, and either way I agree, delaying a multi KM long line just because you can't currently afford the last few underground downtown blocks is silly, and the partial plan is a great idea.

I agree the North line in it's current plan isn't the greatest, but I'd be happy if it stayed as planned but was supplemented with a Centre st streetcar... actually I might like the street car plan even better than the LRT up Centre.

[MichaelS]

What is the difference between a street car and the current buses already running up and down Centre street? You would have to put in a lot of infrastructure to have a street car, and it would still be subject to delays in traffic like the buses. Unless you gave it dedicated lanes, but then why not just do that for the buses and save the cost of the other infrastructure?

What I would like to see going up and down centre (even in leu of a NCLRT) is a gondola.
http://gondolaproject.com/

[mersar]

Originally Posted by MichaelS

What is the difference between a street car and the current buses already running up and down Centre street? You would have to put in a lot of infrastructure to have a street car, and it would still be subject to delays in traffic like the buses. Unless you gave it dedicated lanes, but then why not just do that for the buses and save the cost of the other infrastructure?

What I would like to see going up and down centre (even in leu of a NCLRT) is a gondola.
http://gondolaproject.com/

Capacity and permanence.

The D60LFR's hold roughly 100 passengers, a typical street car holds 150-200. And its been shown that people are more likely to ride a rail based form of transit then bus, even if they are the same speed. Plus rail tends to also spur development around it.

[freeweed]

We think we have accidents on the C-Train.

Imagine if something like this happened here. Service would be halted for months.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by freeweed

We think we have accidents on the C-Train.

Imagine if something like this happened here. Service would be halted for months.

What a tragedy. That really sucks for Barcelona. They have a fantastic train system.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by mersar

No. SE LRT will run under 10th ave starting east of Macleod until it turns north at 2nd Street, go below Gulf Canada Square parkade and run north to Eau Claire.

Oh right, I remember now. Ant there will be a big station Near the Core where all 3 lines meet, kind of a grand central kind of deal. I would like to see them start building the SELRT line, that will put pressure on them to get the tunnel going.
And I agree, a subway under Centre Street would be fantastic.

[DarkKeyo]

I'd be quite happy to see a partial SELRT line, particularly if they do the ~2 years of planning the West LRT did in 2008-2010 starting now and start construction as soon as the WLRT finishes in 2012. It could be open 2015 at that rate, assuming it takes as long as WLRT to build, which without the tunnel section it should. They could even surprise me and get it done by 2014. I've been traveling to areas covered by the SELRT a lot lately and its hideously slow by bus.

It would pretty much have to go from Calgary Tower/Palliser station under 10th (as suggested by Mersar a few posts ago) to Mckenzie Towne to be useful though. By 2015, Mckenzie Towne will be the middle of a large area of development, and having it stop at the edge (i.e. Douglasdale as per some plans) and funneling all the feeder buses and park and ride travelers to the edge instead of the middle is wasteful. And there should be a lot of development at Seton by then.

I really do like the idea of a downtown subway, and capacity-wise we really need it; by the time we get 4-car trains, they'll be at capacity even with the extra space. But, if the SELRT is partly built, with the money we have, as opposed to subway money we seem to not have, it will encourage them even more to build the subways. If there was a connection through the Calgary Tower complex then its only a few blocks north to Centre St and the new City Hall stations.

And, we have more time to convince them to design Eau Claire station in a way that allows easy expansion to the north, under Centre St, which IMO is much, much better than what is essentially commuter rail for people in Harvest Hills area up the Nose creek valley (and there will already BE commuter rail up that valley, probably before the NLRT). I rode the Canada Line recently and technology aside, it runs under a major N-S street with varied development. Having a subway run along a central, grid street like that works pretty well (Toronto does that too).

I should also point out that interlining the NLRT and NELRT from Zoo west is a horrible idea, interlining really limits capacity and both those branches will be pretty busy in the future. And that an airport people mover from the NLRT to the 96th Ave commuter station to the terminal is a very good idea. This after taking Calgary Transit to YYC which takes forever on a road that won't exist next year, and then taking the Canada line at the other end.

[mooky]

We really do need a grand central station if this all comes to be. In NYC its obviously GCS, in Edmonton, I believe the hub station is going to be churchill station, ours should be along 2nd between 7th and 8th (and 9th?) to bridge the 3 lines and make transfers as easy as possible.

That said, I have no idea how they would do it, but I suspect most of it would be underground, with some sort of subterranean promenade to the east and westbound stations on 7th avenue. Obviously working out the connections on the SE line and 8th avenue subway could be done during the planning and engineering phase to make those tie well together, but making it link p well and not seem like a claustrophobic tunnel connection to 7th avenue will be a bit more of a challenge.

[srperrycgy]

I don't think a "Grand Central" station would be necessary. As long there are enough connections at-grade and below grade between the three stations, that should be sufficient.

[mooky]

I think its more about effect and creating a feeling of maturity and completeness to the system but since they are so close, you are right, it's not really necessary.

But I still see people (tourists) on occasion getting confused on 7th ave from time to time though right now, so a central station with a help desk to replace the one in the bow valley parkade on 7th right now, would just help further polish the system and make it more an institution then a piecemeal mishmash.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by mooky

I think its more about effect and creating a feeling of maturity and completeness to the system but since they are so close, you are right, it's not really necessary.

But I still see people (tourists) on occasion getting confused on 7th ave from time to time though right now, so a central station with a help desk to replace the one in the bow valley parkade on 7th right now, would just help further polish the system and make it more an institution then a piecemeal mishmash.

Good point. An information desk would be a great idea. It doesn't have to be "Grand Central Station"ish, it just has to be a recognizable feature that is easy to navigate. An idea would be to close down 2nd street from 9th avenue to 6th Avenue and use it as a hub.

Connecting to regional transit is also important.